LFR Wing 3 is an insult to everything.

[Banard]

Target audience of LFR isn't raiders, majority of these people isn't interested in any form of organised raiding whatsoever. When there's no LFR these guys were doing something else, e.g. levelling alts, doing achievements, collecting stuff, etc. Or they just unsubbed till better times.

LFR simply added one more optional thing for these people to do.

And i am not disagreeing with you. As i said, it doesn't need to be removed but evolved to something more "fun and engaging".

[ls-]

And i am not disagreeing with you. As i said, it doesn't need to be removed but evolved to something more "fun and engaging".

Do you think people who enjoy afking or being carried want to be "funned and engaged"? o_O I'm not really sure about that...

[Banard]

It's a way to dismiss, without evidence, the possibility that Blizzard did it for good reasons.

Tweet to GC: Is that a problem of LFR or of the player base not improving?

Ghostcrawler: It was LFR IMO. Since the group had no owner, nobody had perspective or authority to call for a different strat or call the raid. (OccupyGStreet)

Tweet to GC: why be in there then? The point of raids is to work together & defeat the biggest of the bads not everyone do their own thing

Ghostcrawler: There isn't a ton of motivation to work with a group of strangers when the game can just find you another group trivially. (OccupyGStreet)

Ghostcrawler: I also want to reiterate that I am taking blame here, not distributing it. (OccupyGStreet)

Again there is a issue with LFR.

Food for thought, with today's group finding abilities in the game ...is LFR needed in its current form? It was introduced in the game when there was no group finding abilities at all. You use to have to be part of a guild to raid now you can pug normal/heroic by just going to group finder.

If LFR was not there, would it be safe to assume there would be more pugs in group finder?

The group finder button has brought raiding to a lot more people. Those who cant commit to a schedule can always pug.

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Do you think people who enjoy afking or being carried want to be "funned and engaged"? o_O I'm not really sure about that...

Is anyone in that category going to care if LFR was there or not?

I'll put this spin on it.

As a veteran, do i want a new player first xp at wow end game to be LFR? Do i think that person is going to think this game is engaging and fun? There has to be a way to evolve LFR content.

I for one think it should be story-solo mode. For the past two xpac, we have been "leaders" of a garrison/class hall with followers. I think LFR should evolve to some kind of solo proving ground where you utilise your followers. People can then play a mini game of optimise/gearing followers. Maybe even add some content where 5 players can group up with 5 followers each.

WoW isn't a solo game but LFR sure is. At least that way it will be "engaging" got to min/max those followers...which followers to choose from!

[grandgato]

The problem is not LFR itself. Its the warforged, titanforged chance of the items and the chance for legendarys.

If you don't have a guild or your guild doesn't raid it's a perfect opertunity to do so.
But the chance an item titanforging up to +50 ilvl attracts everone.
Many of those are raidings and have higher expections of everything.

If we don't have that legendary and titanforing rng, lfr would be a far better experience

For LFR to function, there has to be incentives for people to run it who outgear it. There has to be a steady stream of players always queuing for groups, or the system would collapse on itself.

I personally don't think LFR should drop pieces of loot, but tokens or some kind of currency that could be redeemed for a large variety of rewards including gear and cosmetic items.

[Gamer8585]

Most LFR groups have trouble grasping the concepts of:
1) Don't stand in fire,
2) Adds > Boss.

And you want it to be MORE challenging?! Dafuq?

[grandgato]

Food for thought, with today's group finding abilities in the game ...is LFR needed in its current form? It was introduced in the game when there was no group finding abilities at all. You use to have to be part of a guild to raid now you can pug normal/heroic by just going to group finder.

There needs to be some version of the content made available via automated matchmaking services. So yes, it's still needed.

[Deleted]

LFR is supposed to be accessible to almost all players, first and foremost. That's why bosses are basically target dummies. If you raid normal, heroic or Mythic then LFR difficulty shouldn't matter to you. That's why you have the higher difficulties such as normal, heroic and Mythic. Only reason you'll be bothered by LFR if you raid any higher difficulty is because you believe LFR shouldn't exist. This is certainly an argument to make, but there are many players who are not only content to stick with LFR, but who have no time to commit to a raiding guild or to trying to PuG higher difficulties. Raiding is a time consuming activity and one of the appealing things about LFR is that it does break the raids down into smaller segments. You don't have to commit 3-4 hours at a time to clearing an instance, you can break it down and decide to do 1 wing one day, another wing the next. Some people have lifestyles that may not permit them to spend large chunks of time playing WoW (though I can't say I envy that if you want to get further in endgame).

I do believe it's true that LFR doesn't really teach players about raiding properly. It teaches them only the most basic of basics. If a player wants to raid beyond LFR difficulty they should take it upon themselves to improve and sometimes (especially for new players) merely being in a raid (like LFR) can inspire them towards doing this and perhaps give them a bit of confidence in stepping into the same raid on a higher difficulty. If not, then they belong in LFR and some players are content with only doing LFR. Fair play to them if so. But it's also a great stepping down for new players who aren't familiar with raiding and it's handy for gearing alts if you are more experienced. Gives you a fairly forgiving environment to start out learning new classes.

Just my 2C anyway.

[Vorecien]

Garalon was initially hard on LFR because it was overtuned. Supposedly it had the Normal damage values. Then it was nerfed.

Not everything had increased values. He was patched to significantly reduce his health pool and Furious Swipe damage in LFR difficulty.

[Ticj]

To get it out of the way cause i know how these forums work.

This is not to mock the players that only do LFR, this is the state it has turned into.

I mostly do LFR now for BLP and gear on alts since i cant be bothered playing more than i need to, and i literally felt insulted, mocked to be in there.

There is a difference in "watching the fights and lore" and creating two target dummies.

After spending almost an hour on LFR fallen titan I'm glad it's just punching dummies. You can't trust randoms at 860 ilvl to do more than that.

[Supakitch]

If Maiden and Avatar retained all of their abilities in LFR it would be a nightmare. Complaining about the difficulty of LFR is laughable and indicative of the type of player you are. Remember Archimonde LFR? Yeah, we don't want that to happen again. Quit complaining and realize why LFR exists or go do the other THREE difficulties available to you.

[BiggestNoob]

If Maiden and Avatar retained all of their abilities in LFR it would be a nightmare. Complaining about the difficulty of LFR is laughable and indicative of the type of player you are. Remember Archimonde LFR? Yeah, we don't want that to happen again. Quit complaining and realize why LFR exists or go do the other THREE difficulties available to you.

Archimonde LFR was trivial. All you had to do was have a single person in the raid who wasn't an idiot and would intentionally go down each time, kill the voids + tank add, then come up and kill the elementals. That's it. One single person.

That's the problem with LFR, out of 25 people not even a single person in the average group is competent enough to do trivial mechanics, because nobody that does LFR is there to actually do raid content, you're there to stand around like idiots and be handed loot for nothing.

[Twdft]

That 1 hero will surely save the day after half the raid died standing in fire and the other half isn't able to switch on adds in a timely manner, while one of the tanks just got his 3rd battle rezz because the other tank wasn't taunting on time.

Also, random players were chosen to be teleported down.

[Supakitch]

Archimonde LFR was trivial. All you had to do was have a single person in the raid who wasn't an idiot and would intentionally go down each time, kill the voids + tank add, then come up and kill the elementals. That's it. One single person.

That's the problem with LFR, out of 25 people not even a single person in the average group is competent enough to do trivial mechanics, because nobody that does LFR is there to actually do raid content, you're there to stand around like idiots and be handed loot for nothing.

Exactly. And that's why they made to change to just automatically port people down to the Nether phase. Are Maiden and Avatar hard fights? No, they are not. They are however incredibly difficult and taxing with 25 LFR quality players. They made the right call with abandoning the mechanics of those fights. If they didn't do it then people would just be complaining about how its too difficult with 25 lfr players who basically stand there doing nothing. Grass is always greener.

[Sarevokcz]

Exactly. And that's why they made to change to just automatically port people down to the Nether phase. Are Maiden and Avatar hard fights? No, they are not. They are however incredibly difficult and taxing with 25 LFR quality players. They made the right call with abandoning the mechanics of those fights. If they didn't do it then people would just be complaining about how its too difficult with 25 lfr players who basically stand there doing nothing. Grass is always greener.

well, when you dont get the 5 mythic raiders, that carry 70% of the raid dps, all bosses are horrible and "tough" for the 200k dps crowd, its obvious how easy LFR is, when you do the mission quest immediately and more geared people are joining in and how hard it is when you que at later in the week or at odd time and youre stuck with 15 mouthbreathers who literally manage to DIE on mechanics that people dont have problems with on higher difficulties. I know, people moan alot about raiders doing LFR and just teling them "dont do it then" when they complain about others, but the sad truth is, the usual LFR crowd is incapable of killing the bosses without geared people carrying them