Is *SPOILER* really the Legion endboss?!

[Jastall]

I think it's a cool final boss. Actually fighting Sargeras is not possible for us. We're ants to him. So instead we mostly fight a proxy, with the goal of imprisoning the Dark Titan. I'm personally OK with this, and if it is developed well enough in the Argus zones it's definitely not much more out of left field than Archimonde, Kil'jaeden 1.0, or even Garrosh were in their respective expansions.

[arcaneshot]

Considering Thal'Dranath was in the BETA,

Thal'Dranath never made it out of the Alpha, much less was even put in the Alpha to begin with.

Claiming it was in the Beta is revisionist history.

[purebalance]

So, you hated BC's story too? KJ comes out of nowhere in the Sunwell patch. Same with Wrath? Supposed to build up to us killing him and destroying the Scourge, then oops, we die, there must always be a Lich King. How bout Cata? Supposed to be an epic dragon fight that everyone wanted, oops, turns out he can't be destroyed like any other dragon, need to use an artifact and he's a tentacle monster. How about MoP? Supposed to be about fighting the sha and faction conflict, ends with Garrosh and the factions reuniting.

Another person who didn't play BC? KJ was a part of it if you actually played WC3 and knew Illidan's backstory. Everything Illidan did from a certain point in WC3 to the present was out of fear for his own safety due to KJ making him piss his pants. The Doomwalker outside of BT explicitly was sent by KJ to take down the walls of BT. Furthermore we knew about KJ coming as early as TK with the turn in quest.

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Isnt his body is damaged/destroyed in WotA? I'm pretty sure Sargeras is in the same form as the other titans (only the soul, but sargeras isnt splintered like the rest)
It would answer all those question why he didnt come for Azeroth/interfered phisically with the world. I just cant imagine an interplenetary being cannot change his size to enter a portal or anything else.

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In some other thread i was thinking the same about all these retcon stuff: we have no reason to not beleive sargeras found a way to reproduce with some fel manipulation (therefore argus would be just the cradle of the fel-titan soul, it wouldnt contradict with anything said before). As it would be much weaker then a a naturally evolved titan (or maybe he isnt totally evolved) would answer how can we fight with him. We clearly dont know enough information on this matter yet.

Destro lock artifact lore pretty much denies this theory people keep spitting out lately that his body was destroyed.

[Aucald]

You have neat theories, but they're completely unfounded.

Considering Thal'Dranath was in the BETA, it was more likely planned for release and I don't recall any hints of it being end of expansion or 7.3 content. They announced it was scrapped June 16, 2016 during a Q&A interview, not at Blizzcon. By that logic though, should ogres have been the final boss of WoD since they scrapped those islands as well?

Broken Shore was what replaced Thal'Dranath. You can find proof of this in the five part audio drama that was released before Legion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_xFZ7b6tOk
https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms...9831831453.pdf

"YOU RAISED AN ISLAND, THAL'DRANATH, FROM THE WATERS.—"
"The muffled, distant noise reached his ears an instant before a powerful shockwave rattled the air. His raven eyes snapped downward, toward the island of Thal'dranath, as the wind seemed to tremble around his wings. A dust cloud was rising above the Tomb of Sargeras."

Lastly, the 'In Defense of the Exodar' scenario was in-game during the BETA. Velen states to prepare the Exodar because they're going home. This leads me to believe that they had planned Argus being later content before they scrapped Thal'Dranath.

Thal'Dranath was never in the Beta - the landmass existed, but it was largely non-textured, entirely unpopulated, never iterated for content, and disappeared almost overnight. The Broken Shore existed as an independent zone while the Thal'Dranath landmess was still existent. This is the map of Legion available from the tech Alpha and early Beta:



Thal'Dranath is located due south of Dalaran, whereas the Broken Shore southeast of Suramar just as it is now and the two landmasses are roughly the same size.

The Broken Shore, during the Beta, was mostly as it was during the 7.0 and 7.1 patches of Legion, a copy of the Broken Shore from the pre-expansion scenario patrolled by powerful elite demons as a form of exploration dampener. The gate to the Tomb of Sargeras was also wide open, but venturing near it would auto-kill your character and cause a long slog back to your corpse.

[Deleted]

C'thun was epic because he was in the deepest of the depths in the harsh desert where old men lie. Kel'thuzad was epic because fighting him in WoW-form in his citadel after Warcraft III plot felt like a fight we'd been expecting and preparing for. So was Illidan. Kil'jaeden came up as a nice surprise, the epicness of it rose from the fact that although everyone knew he was coming to our world to destroy us and was one of the Legion's lieutenants, no one got to see him unless they raided all the way to the end of Sunwell.

Then there were LK and Deathwing. These had a bunch of appearances during questing and shit, but the point was that they were expected bosses for a very long time, because they were arch-villains of WoW lore. Having them appear sometimes was nice and didn't spoil the encounter at all, but that was only because they were nemeses players dreamt of defeating.

Garrosh was a letdown to me. He'd just been this random prick in Orgrimmar for so long, then Warchief; I didn't like him but I never thought of him as a great threat we had to rid Azeroth of. It could be argued the threat was Y'shaarj in form of Garrosh, but ultimately I was fighting an orc I'd known for years and it neither felt good nor epic.

Then they came up with Archimonde as a surprise for WoD. It was alright, I guess, but lacked buildup. Also, we already fought him before, and he was absolutely massive then. By contrast, the WoD fight felt less epic than it should have. In my opinion the main mistake was lack of build-up for him. I think I would rather have fought him with like a phase I Gul'dan, which had been the main antagonist since the start of WoD -- and if they needed to recycle Gul'dan for Legion, fine, let him escape after a challenging phase I. It would have linked up to make the whole expansion more climactic in my opinion.

For Legion, the natural endboss was either Kil'jaeden or Sargeras. Fighting the soul of a planet is... ehh. Sure, we know Argus is a planet, but we really never cared for the titan in it. Fighting it is a moment I have never dreamed of and this sudden introduction of it won't make me. So I don't know about the Sargeras thing people are talking about in the thread, but if it ends up that this fight DIRECTLY ties in to the imprisonment of Sargeras, then I guess that's fine. I would have preferred to fight the Dark Titan myself though.

N'Zoth or Azshara will be nice end-of-expansion bosses though. Azshara we've been waiting for for years, and N'Zoth has had very decent build-up throughout Legion, with further mystery build-up from us knowing there was a missing Old God from deep lore.

[Deleted]

When we knew Deathwing who unleashed cataclysm upon the Azeroth we were fighting with bears, no one could ever think that we will be ever able to kill him.
Sargeras is the same case.

Well...ye not really, since Deathwing isnt/wasnt a god-alike entity, also we had to fight him in different phase spreaded over the raid, with help from aspects.
Sargeras is just a cosmic entity that can cleave planet =\= destroy the stormwind central park.

Those are 2 different plane of power creep, we had fight big dragons since vanilla, we beated his daughter and son plus other dragons never fighted a "god"

[Deleted]

I always wondered if Hogger wasn't turned demon...

[Jarg]

You are spreading quite some misinformation here, there is no reason to even assume titans CAN reproduce. Aman'thul and later the pantheon made it their mission to look for more world souls and to find more of their kin, there was never any mention that they had any form of intercourse or were even capable of such.

Using headcanon to speculate things without any former mention anywhere, just makes ppl delusional that these headcanons are real and we end up arguing about blatantly wrong information.



OT: I do wish there was more build up to learn that Argus is a world soul, but then again the lore is so baddly written that lore wise we still don't know that the legion their goal is to stop the void. Cause apparently demons think it's better to make your enemies think you are power hungry instead of trying to recruit them by telling your goal.

I1m sorry, i dont want to spread misinform anyone, i think it was pretty obvious. All i was saying, that we do not know too much about what is going on and i totally agree that it should be cleared soon.

[SirBeef]

The World Soul of Argus had no mention in the lore of anything, even Chronicle until 7.3

Sorry bud, its a lie that he has had a strong presence. The Pantheon? Sure. Sargeras? Sure. The World Soul of Argus? Not even fucking Chronicle mentions it. Jaylock, no trolling, its a lie. The definition of a lie;


1. A false statement deliberately presented as being true; a falsehood.
2. Something meant to deceive or mistakenly accepted as true: learned his parents had been swindlers and felt his whole childhood had been a lie.


1. To present false information with the intention of deceiving.
2. To convey a false image or impression: Appearances often lie.

It literally fits 2 of the 4 total definitions for the word Jaylock.

This again? Really? At the time Sargeras could have been what was planned for the end boss. While making Legion, specifically planning the Argus raid or where ever the Sargeras fight would take place Blizzard went in a different direction. This does not constitute a lie. I thought you were smarter than this.

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Thal'Dranath is located due south of Dalaran, whereas the Broken Shore southeast of Suramar just as it is now and the two landmasses are roughly the same size.

Thal'Dranath is not that little island south of Dal on your map. It was SE of the broken shore. That is the location where EoA takes place.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...inimap_in_the/

[Deleted]

Nothing more than a flat island with its name on it.

Argus was the Thal'Dranath's replacement, it's quite obvious now, considering the size of 7.3.

[Deleted]

There are people who take this incompetent crap of a story serious these days?
Lol.

[Peroxidex]

Thal'Dranath never made it out of the Alpha, much less was even put in the Alpha to begin with.

Claiming it was in the Beta is revisionist history.

or perhaps my memory of when it existed was hazy? I find it hilarious that you would grab that one flaw and dismiss the rest of my post though.

I mean, I obviously have no clue what I'm talking about considering I released some of the first Emerald Nightmare screenshots in 2015.

https://www.reddit.com/r/wow/comment...d_screenshots/

Why even have bother participating in the discussion if you're incapable of actually doing so in a productive manner?

Thal'Dranath was never in the Beta.

Yeah, someone already stated that.