Survival chance of it being a Melee/Ranged hybrid?

[Halfsharkalligatorhalfman]

Blizzard needs to take a long hard look on how Saboteurs work in Rift and design the class to be exactly like that. A combo greanade spec with unique traps that can go Marlee in a pinch. If that doesn't work there is always the dual wield pistol/crossbow road to take with the spec. Either one would be better than the current mess of a spec.

[threads]

I don't know if blizzard would ever be open to the idea of a Ranged/Melee hybrid due to balancing issues but it seems like the survival spec would be great to change it to next expansion with harpoon and disengage already in out toolkit.

Here is how I think the spec could play. You would harpoon to get in melee and have a few abilities that you would fire of in melee (i.e. a few bleeds maybe stick an explosive to the mob that would leave a dot or have a delayed explosion) then you disengage out and have a few abilities you would fire off at range (i.e. an explosive shot, serpent sting). At some point your bleeds you applied melee would be wearing off so you would have to harpoon back in to reapply. Then its back to range to do more ranged stuff. Giving the spec a very active play style with a lot of mobility built into the kit.

That is the basic idea that there could be a ton to build off of. I personally think a playstyle like this could be very fun and active and the talents could be built around having a more melee heavy build or a more range heavy build. It also seems to fit the survival theme.

feel like people would mostly just stack in melee with that and avoid the whole disengage/harpoon garbage.

blizzard needs to just realize that nobody wanted melee hunter except like 10 people that lie about playing it in vanilla. less than 1% of hunters play SV now and I'm sure a large majority just want their old fav spec back.

[Eapoe]

feel like people would mostly just stack in melee with that and avoid the whole disengage/harpoon garbage.

blizzard needs to just realize that nobody wanted melee hunter except like 10 people that lie about playing it in vanilla. less than 1% of hunters play SV now and I'm sure a large majority just want their old fav spec back.

Players did want melee Hunters. Players didn't want to lose a spec they love.
Blizzard also hurt its chances by giving it subpar performance with a mess of a design. If it was a 2-4 spec that competed with, if not beat, the majority of melee it would be played much more.
There's also the issue of DH's being released the same xpac that SV got switched to melee, taking some of the interest even further away from the spec idea.
Am I placing all of the blame on DH? No. Am I placing most of it on design of the spec? Yes. Am I placing any of it on "hunters are rdps and that's what people picked them for?" Very little. Sure, the arguement holds true in some sense, but change is hard to take in some instances, this being one of them.
Do I want SV back as rdps? Yes, but I still would like a melee spec that is fun to play and is competitive without requiring near perfect play, as a melee Hunter is still a very fun concept.

[SnowTang]

Players did want melee Hunters. Players didn't want to lose a spec they love.
Blizzard also hurt its chances by giving it subpar performance with a mess of a design. If it was a 2-4 spec that competed with, if not beat, the majority of melee it would be played much more.
There's also the issue of DH's being released the same xpac that SV got switched to melee, taking some of the interest even further away from the spec idea.
Am I placing all of the blame on DH? No. Am I placing most of it on design of the spec? Yes. Am I placing any of it on "hunters are rdps and that's what people picked them for?" Very little. Sure, the arguement holds true in some sense, but change is hard to take in some instances, this being one of them.
Do I want SV back as rdps? Yes, but I still would like a melee spec that is fun to play and is competitive without requiring near perfect play, as a melee Hunter is still a very fun concept.

Who the fuck wanted the hunter class to have a melee spec? Not me and the majority of hunters thats for sure.

[Geran]

I'm also hoping that they transition survival into a full on tank spec in the next expansion. Having a tanking option would be way more interesting than having a melee spec when there are already so many melee specs in the game. The pet could easily be used in a similar way to monk's stagger, having the player spend some attention on keeping the pet healed as it takes some percentage of your damage.

I hate survival being melee, but your hope will not only piss those who wants SV being ranged again, also the few that likes the current melee dps, good way of alienating more people.

[Eapoe]

Who the fuck wanted the hunter class to have a melee spec? Not me and the majority of hunters thats for sure.

Pretty much anyone that has asked for it over the years. It's been brought up on forums before as well as asked during interviews. I'm sure you speak for everyone, though, so your rebuttal is just too good.
There have been instances in the past where people have asked.
Main point is, it's not a bad idea, but most people that have ever wanted it or considered it a fun idea weren't expecting it to be made that way from an existing spec.

[last1214]

They took my favorite spec in the game and butchered it into the abortion it is now. Why? What was their reasoning?

#1 in the name of being unique. They were on their fucking crusade to make every spec entirely unique from its other specs. Is OP's idea unique? Yes it is. Does that mean it's a good idea? No. If you ask me, a little bit of homogenization isn't a terrible crime. It makes a hunter still feel like a hunter when you change specs. What's wrong with that?

#2 the "survival" name didn't really fit. The old survival was a ranged dot class that dealt fire , nature, shadow, and physical damage. Nothing really survival about that. The spec just evolved too much over the expansions and got melded into something that was fun to play, but no longer matched it's vanilla name. Let me ask you this: now that survival is melee, does it's name really fit what the spec does? Based on the community and devloper response to this spec, it would be more appropriate to call them forlorn hunters.

If, (and this is a big if) you were to implement OP's idea, then do it with a tinker class or something that doesn't exist already. Don't take a well established spec and totally fuck it up, not that survival is well established anymore. As for what to do with survival next expansion? Change it back ffs. Better yet make it a dark ranger class, like Sylvanas and Vol'jin. Rexxar is a forlorn loser.

[Skylarking]

People aren't playing the spec because it has too many buttons to press not because it's a bad idea.

Ehhh I'd say its actually a bit of both. Still plenty of salty pre-legion survival hunters around.

[Mirishka]

Who the fuck wanted the hunter class to have a melee spec? Not me and the majority of hunters thats for sure.

On the contrary. Over the years tons of people have asked for melee hunters, e.g. 'omg I want melee spec so I can b like Rexxar!!!??!!' Though more often people requested that spec be BM, not Surv.

Also, you do not speak for the 'majority' of hunters.

[Evaddon]

That's what it should've been! I said that from the start and people just disagreed with me, they really should've took a page from Neverwinter with how they do their Ranger/Hunter class that's the one good thing in that game.
To play if the best you switch between Melee and Range, sitting on one stance/focus hurts your damage/utility/Survival

[Mirishka]

I hate survival being melee, but your hope will not only piss those who wants SV being ranged again, also the few that likes the current melee dps, good way of alienating more people.

I enjoy melee Surv, it has more depth than BM or Marks. But it should have been a 4th spec, not a full-on replacement for the old ranged Surv. spec.

[Deleted]

I enjoy melee Surv, it has more depth than BM or Marks. But it should have been a 4th spec, not a full-on replacement for the old ranged Surv. spec.

Exactly! Thank you, 4th spec. However it's the most enjoyable of all Legion hunter specs due to it's utility and somewhat "complex" playstyle.

I love how PvE'rs cry over losing their "main" spec but PvE'rs are NOTORIOUS for changing raiding spec as soon as Marksman/BM pulls ahead 1-2%. Sorry, but SO MANY specs got a total revamp which is just as "upsetting" as losing a hunter spec. I used to love balance and unholy but I can't stand them in Legion. I lost them too.

The reason they made it melee was that it was their goal in Vanilla beta. It was the original fantasy.

Atleast I enjoy shaman and somewhat both survival and marskman in PvP.

- - - Updated - - -

IMO survival should be somewhat hybrid range/melee in 8.0

[pkm]

I love how PvE'rs cry over losing their "main" spec but PvE'rs are NOTORIOUS for changing raiding spec as soon as Marksman/BM pulls ahead 1-2%.

You're implying that everyone that does pve is into mythic raiding, or raiding at all, for that matter.

[Khallid]

I don't know if blizzard would ever be open to the idea of a Ranged/Melee hybrid due to balancing issues but it seems like the survival spec would be great to change it to next expansion with harpoon and disengage already in out toolkit.

Here is how I think the spec could play. You would harpoon to get in melee and have a few abilities that you would fire of in melee (i.e. a few bleeds maybe stick an explosive to the mob that would leave a dot or have a delayed explosion) then you disengage out and have a few abilities you would fire off at range (i.e. an explosive shot, serpent sting). At some point your bleeds you applied melee would be wearing off so you would have to harpoon back in to reapply. Then its back to range to do more ranged stuff. Giving the spec a very active play style with a lot of mobility built into the kit.

That is the basic idea that there could be a ton to build off of. I personally think a playstyle like this could be very fun and active and the talents could be built around having a more melee heavy build or a more range heavy build. It also seems to fit the survival theme.

I don't have anything for or against the idea, but it would be very hard to handle boss mechanics from the developer's perspective, so I don't think they will go for it, because why would they give themselves a hard time?

This is because melee characters are not targeted by certain ranged mechanics that often require you to move (like spreading because you deal AoE damage around your location, or soaks that happen very far away from the boss). So the hybrid would be forced to do ranged mechanics, which would probably hinder its melee performance.

An example of a ranged-only mechanic would be the brands on Tichondrius. The melee were immune to getting the brands, which dealt damage based on distance, and running into melee with one on mythic would break it and drop fire on top of all the melee, which would be very bad.

[Guzrud]

Exactly! Thank you, 4th spec. However it's the most enjoyable of all Legion hunter specs due to it's utility and somewhat "complex" playstyle.

I love how PvE'rs cry over losing their "main" spec but PvE'rs are NOTORIOUS for changing raiding spec as soon as Marksman/BM pulls ahead 1-2%. Sorry, but SO MANY specs got a total revamp which is just as "upsetting" as losing a hunter spec. I used to love balance and unholy but I can't stand them in Legion. I lost them too.

The reason they made it melee was that it was their goal in Vanilla beta. It was the original fantasy.

Atleast I enjoy shaman and somewhat both survival and marskman in PvP.

- - - Updated - - -

IMO survival should be somewhat hybrid range/melee in 8.0

The main thing is "most" people do not find the spec fun to play. If you look at the 7.3 Representation of hunter specs playing in ToS for Heroic and Mythic Raiding there are 389672 Hunter parses for all of heroic and mythic raiding at the time of this post. A total of 5732 of those are Survival for about 1.5% of total hunter representation. It is the least played spec by a very large margin and that has tons of layers to it but the most important one is very plain that people dont like playing the spec.

I think getting into discussions about what a particular person feels about a spec is just a exercise in futility because if I love the current iteration of Survival its not like someone who has a conflicting opinion is going to sway me. What we should focus on is what the community as a whole feels like. There will be people who just LOVE the spec currently, There will be people who wish for the old Black Arrow, Explosive shot build as they remember with doughy eyes how much fun it was in SoO four set to chain 10 Explosive shots in a row into a target. But ultimately the resounding majority of the hunter community to the tune of greater than 98% just dont play it.

If you look at hunter representation you would see that even though MM is the statistically better spec BM is still played more because people enjoy playing it and it is very "out of the box" friendly to pick up and do well with right away with good mobility even though it does less dps than Marks in just about every scenario currently.

If people really enjoyed playing the spec they would play it. Period. There are tons of players who dont care about ranks and who just play what is fun. There will be some serious changes to Survival in 8.0, what it will be I do not know but I do not see the devs not changing something about one of the most titanic failures they have ever implimented.

[KYH]

the spec sucks but don't suggest bringing back the ranged deadzone as a fix lol
keep it melee and overhaul the spec, im certain they've got loads of ideas at this point in legion with where they want to go with sv

[Cinnamilk]

Survival main here.

Not much about the spec needs changing besides the mastery maybe. The rest could be attained through numerical tweaks to help low geared sv hunters reach max stacks when starting with full charges. That, and devs that understand what's interesting for the spec across talent tiers (hint: not Raptor Strike).

[SnowTang]

On the contrary. Over the years tons of people have asked for melee hunters, e.g. 'omg I want melee spec so I can b like Rexxar!!!??!!' Though more often people requested that spec be BM, not Surv.

Also, you do not speak for the 'majority' of hunters.

Sure seems like I do when the spec is so fucking dead it's embarrassing.

[Deleted]

Who the fuck wanted the hunter class to have a melee spec? Not me and the majority of hunters thats for sure.

*raises his hand*
Name me one reason why I need 3 different range specs.

I'd go nuts over a melee-mage spec that summons arcane weapons, too.

Talents should be used to allow specs to feel different enough by themselves and thus SV could've been built into MM. They obviously tried exactly that (@BA + Explosive shot talent), but failed.

Sure seems like I do when the spec is so fucking dead it's embarrassing.

I play MM too, why the hell do you assume you speak for me just because we both play ranged specs right now?

[JaoStar]

I think they need to start fixing the spec by removing some of what makes it hard to play. Right now there are just too many things that make it really annoying to play. I really like the idea of a melee hunter spec but I don't like the way they made it work this expansion. I really hope they don't just revert it next expansion though. Would be lame.
People aren't playing the spec because it has too many buttons to press not because it's a bad idea.

Yeah I a agree, SV seems to have an identity problem. Is it a trap master, a munitions expert, does/should it use its pet in tandem with its melee abilities? And focus was originally designed for ranged combat not melee.