Elemental. How good is it in pve?

[Deleted]

That's not an indication of anything of the sort. Resto has fewer active damage spells, fewer passive damage spells, different mastery, talents etc etc etc. It's got nothing to do with damage as a spec so they need to make the spells hit harder so resto can actually solo and level the game before hitting max level. Come on people, if you actually believe resto does more damage than ele I'm really speachless.

Just try both specs on a target dummy for 5-10 minutes and report back to me...

If you read his post with comprehension, you'd notice that he was referring to the leveling phase, before you get mastery.

The reason base damage for elemental's spells is tuned so low is because there are layers upon layers of modifiers tied into every ability, I already linked an article explaining it in detail above, let me do it again:
https://www.stormearthandlava.com/rngsus/

Most people are so fixated on warcraftlogs' graphs and hearsay that they do not understand the real issues that prevent elemental from being a viable spec for progression raiding, which are:
total lack of survivability
no raid utility/immunities
damage VARIANCE that is out of player control

[Akurenia]

Also i remember reading blue posts after devs responded to Enchantment shaman issues in 7.2.5 Didnt they say we are pretty happy with where elem is right now? Or i am remembering that wrong.

We're enhancement Shamans, not enchanters

[DarkAmbient]

If you read his post with comprehension, you'd notice that he was referring to the leveling phase, before you get mastery.

The reason base damage for elemental's spells is tuned so low is because there are layers upon layers of modifiers tied into every ability, I already linked an article explaining it in detail above, let me do it again:
https://www.stormearthandlava.com/rngsus/

Most people are so fixated on warcraftlogs' graphs and hearsay that they do not understand the real issues that prevent elemental from being a viable spec for progression raiding, which are:
total lack of survivability
no raid utility/immunities
damage VARIANCE that is out of player control

Not subscribed but just hopped on to a level 20 shaman to test this out vs the level 18 ogres in Loch Modan.

Ele:

Lava burst - 285
Lightning bolt - 89

Resto:

Lava burst - 395
Lightning bolt - 176

That is ridiculous.

[pkm]

Not subscribed but just hopped on to a level 20 shaman to test this out vs the level 18 ogres in Loch Modan.

Ele:

Lava burst - 285
Lightning bolt - 89

Resto:

Lava burst - 395
Lightning bolt - 176

That is ridiculous.

And disc/holy makes a better levelling/questing spec than SHADOW, EVEN AT 110. But really who the hell actually cares about what happens during the levelling process now days especially when it is so quick and can also be quick as well as easy if desired (invasions)

[DarkAmbient]

And disc/holy makes a better levelling/questing spec than SHADOW, EVEN AT 110. But really who the hell actually cares about what happens during the levelling process now days especially when it is so quick and can also be quick as well as easy if desired (invasions)

I dunno, people who are leveling perhaps?

It's just bad game design to make healing specs do more damage than DPS specs.

[Deleted]

I dunno, people who are leveling perhaps?

It's just bad game design to make healing specs do more damage than DPS specs.

Again, because a spell deals more damage doesn't mean resto does more damage. It might, I haven't tested (but I doubt it). But a spell hitting harder does not more damage equal.

How about casting time, procs, other DPS abilities like shocks etc, totems and the ability to kite mobs and kill them faster whilst losing less HP in the process?

Just because 2 spells do more damage doesn't in any way confirm resto does more damage than elemental overall or is a better leveling spec. Like I said it might, I haven't tested. But at least back it up with some sound testing other than "X>Y dmg omgggg [insert invalid conclusion here]".

[Shammyrock]

Resto has higher base damage on spells to make playing as a healer somewhat bearable in the open world. On mobs that due quickly (most leveling and lower lvl dung mobs) that base spell power probably makes a higher difference than ele extra abilities

On something that lasts longer than 2 seconds it gets overtaken quickly.

[Deleted]

How about casting time

You are able to get AS only at level 60, it is also a minuscule casting time increase.

procs

what procs? lava surge? resto has that as well.

other DPS abilities like shocks etc

You can ES every 10th mob at full maelstrom, which you will also never do, because you'll spend most of it on FS. No CD on flame shock, which allows you to gather mobs faster to aoe them is where the real upper hand lies.

totems

Totem mastery? Nobody uses that to level, unless you are a masochist. Also, resto has more totems than ele does >.<;

and the ability to kite mobs

resto can kite as well as ele, even better due to spiritwalker's grace.

and kill them faster whilst losing less HP in the process?

faster? debatable, albeit the higher your level grows, the bigger the gap is in favour of elemental. Still, loss of hp is not a valid argument here, since you can keep yourself topped off with riptide

Just because 2 spells do more damage doesn't in any way confirm resto does more damage than elemental overall or is a better leveling spec. Like I said it might, I haven't tested. But at least back it up with some sound testing other than "X>Y dmg omgggg [insert invalid conclusion here]".

Do you even realize that _by your definition_ what you're claiming is just as invalid as what you're trying to argue?

[DarkAmbient]

Again, because a spell deals more damage doesn't mean resto does more damage. It might, I haven't tested (but I doubt it). But a spell hitting harder does not more damage equal.

How about casting time, procs, other DPS abilities like shocks etc, totems and the ability to kite mobs and kill them faster whilst losing less HP in the process?

Just because 2 spells do more damage doesn't in any way confirm resto does more damage than elemental overall or is a better leveling spec. Like I said it might, I haven't tested. But at least back it up with some sound testing other than "X>Y dmg omgggg [insert invalid conclusion here]".

Lava burst and lightning bolt have the same cast time in ele and resto, (at least until you choose Ancestral Swiftness at level 60) with resto having significantly more base damage. Ele flameshock has less than half base damage than resto, but the difference there is it can be spammed and maelstrom increases damage. However, even with flameshock's 6 second cooldown in resto, it's probably still better because it's always hitting for 100% damage.

The simple fact is that killing quest mobs while leveling and before you get your mastery (not sure if there's a point where resto is still better until x amount of mastery) is faster. I would say that's an odd state of affairs.

[korlach]

The simple fact is that killing quest mobs while leveling and before you get your mastery (not sure if there's a point where resto is still better until x amount of mastery) is faster. I would say that's an odd state of affairs.

If you have to kill 1 mob sure resto is faster. When you kill it in 3-4 seconds then try to swap to the next and your FS is not up it just becomes annoying. If you are ele you pull those 2 mobs and another 2 all with FS. Resto may kill 1 mob faster but it's not as efficient otherwise.

To the real point of the thread, ele does underperform on single target but does just fine when you can aoe and you don't need constant aoe to do well. You can do great in M+ up to 15 and reg and heroic raiding you should be able to keep up fine when playing with a group of around equal skill. As a side note while ele itself doesn't have great utility you can bring something no pure dps can and that is a strong healer OS and if you are willing to do that you bring more value.

[Deleted]

Elemental is in a dire state right now, but I love it and enjoy playing it, so I stick to it... Weird that not everything is about hitting those world firsts, but actually playing what you enjoy

[Riistov]

Getting some attention on the ptr finally. Will that translate to it being viable in Mythic? We'll see.

[Socialhealer]

Just wanted to add some positivity cause the forums are always full of doomsdaysayers. For a casual the spec is absolutely fine and tons of fun, for a mythic raider probably not.

so when you play with shitters you can be better than them?

cool then every class is amazing, just play with much worse geared people that are morons, and ta-da your spec is better.

[Deleted]

so when you play with shitters you can be better than them?

cool then every class is amazing, just play with much worse geared people that are morons, and ta-da your spec is better.

If you think elemental can only can beat people in DPS that are much worse geared and/or morons you're out of your mind.

I bet literally nobody in this thread is in the race for world first mythic kills, probably nobody even doing mythic raiding, so what's to complain about really?

Blizzard generally balance around what the masses do which is LFR, random BG's, and casual normal and maybe hc raiding... and guess what, elemental can do all those things and be competitive just fine. Not every single class has to be viable for world firsts mythic raid bosses, just pick a different f*cking class or spec if that's so important to you. "but... but... I wanna throw LAVA and get world first mythic kills at the SAME TIME!!!". Boohoo, grow up and get over it. Better luck next expansion.

[krl]

Elem is not a serious pve spec. Realistically, it cannot be.
Bringing its dps up to par, which is not, is nowhere near enough.

HL pve needs survivability and the ability to dps while moving. If possible, full invuln for soaks, blinks or insta movement skills for mechanics, reliable burst etc.

Elem has none of this by design.

[Riistov]

probably nobody even doing mythic raiding, so what's to complain about really?

I'm currently progressing through Mythic as Elemental.

[Deleted]

How does it feel to be a hindrance for your guild?

[Epicon]

One of the few classes that have been horribly shit since Legion launched. I will admit that ele is fun but it is so bad you may even get kicked from LFR. Beast Master Hunter also gets an honorable mention for, "The spec that totally shit the bed for an entire expansion" award.

[Deleted]

Irony of this post is that I enjoy both BM and Elemental
I keep trying to enjoy Mage, but I just feel its clunky. Its so strong, but clunky. If legendaries weren't a thing I'd reroll regardless, but only having 1 shard of exodar, and needing another for big throughout but its a 1/12? or something chance, its disheartening. Next expansion however... Going back to mage for life.

[binkenstein]

7.3 PTR testers. Is Ele going to be viable in 7.3?

I am shelving my Havoc DH as we are receiving no buffs and are middle of the pack or lower.

If you're re-rolling because you're worried about not receiving buffs & being "middle of the pack" then Elemental is not the spec for you. Go play a Rogue, Mage or Warlock.