Venezuelan Cash Worth Less Than WoW Gold

[Teaon]

i thought Venezuela is an oil country? why it is not luxurious like the Arabian Gulf oil countries?

[Acidbaron]

How do you think he got that position in the first place? And as soon as he's in that system he can immediately install a cult of personality to make sure he can't be pushed out of office. Socialism is flawed and only works on paper. Keep attacking me with ad hominems and strawmen though.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/03/23/ve...by-pepe-memes/

Pepes are worth more than the Bolivar. And I can't find a source on this other claim but Switzerland was storing Venezuela's gold and they demanded it back. But as soon as it was returned to the country it disappeared. I fucking wonder where it went.

He is just now installing a dictatorship and it's not going down easy. If that system was ruled by a right leaning government the same scenario could easily take place, the fact is Maduro is neither left or right and he's a poor successor. The same amount of corruption could have easily taken place i a full free market scenario where nothing was nationalized.

As to why the currency is that low i already explained that to you but for some reason you refused to ignore the economic reality of Venezuela being tied to the price of oil, if the country government decided to put eggs in more different kind of baskets the currency would not be in trouble again even if the country was less nationalized this would still have been a problem.

It's not an attack when you merely keep pointing toward a political ideology and ignore all the other realities surrounding this current situation, it displays not only your bias but also your ignorance. Since if you did you would notice it's not the ideology at fault here but the people inside the government unable and unwilling to adjust to realities surrounding their nation, it is even so that they are so unwilling that they are declaring everyone who disagrees as traitors and locking them up.

But i get it some americans have a complex relation with socialism as in not understanding what it is and linking it to something evil for whatever reason, i can't help but think it's still remnants of the reagan area when things got drilled in by propaganda from the US government. Anyway i'm repeating myself so its up to you to either bother to understand the situation fully or to simply keep doing as you are, educated yourself or shroud yourself in ignorance, it won't hurt me one way or the other

[Deleted]

Because there are no corrupt or dishonest people in capitalist countries, apparently.

Still, capitalism works, so apparently it attracts less incompetence than socialism.

[jimboa24]

Because there are no corrupt or dishonest people in capitalist countries, apparently.

There are, tons of them, but the way capitalism works, corruption and dishonesty ends up having a less devastating effect on the economy than socialism, because in part, capitalism is built around the idea that humans are selfish and greedy at their core, and uses that behavior as a tool to keep the economy ticking. Socialism (and communism) are built around the idea that all people are altruistic and idealogues who will put the interest of party and people above their own wants and needs. I would argue that (extreme) socialism and communism don't work because their idea of humanity as this kind of collective like the borg just plain isn't correct. Capitalism sees humanity as a collection of individuals working together out of a combination of necessity and enlightened self-interest.

[Acidbaron]

i thought Venezuela is an oil country? why it is not luxurious like the Arabian Gulf oil countries?

Record low Oil prices.
80% of country based on that Oil export. Very little effort spend in investing that money back in attracting other industries.
Oil not being processed nationally meaning oil products have to be imported. (As so do the majority of their products including medicine)
A much large population compared to Gulf nations who have smaller oil reserves but in relation to their population they have a lot more oil money per person.


To give a short summary.

[Hiricine]

Comparing the nominal value of currencies is really kind of a silly thing. The Yen infamously is a very "minute" currency, yet its not considered "weak" simply by virtue of its immediate relative value to other currencies.

Of course, the Bolivar is likely to be dropping rapidly in the near future, so the point kind of still stands, just not for the way its described in the source.

[Ivanstone]

It would have continued to work if the successor wasn't corrupt and if oil prices didn't drop and if the entire country wealth wasn't based on 80% of oil export.

It wasn't working in the first place.

It was a corrupt country before Chavez.

It was a slightly less corrupt country during Chavez.

It is a corrupt country after Chavez.

It only looked like it was working because Chavez was willing to spread some of the wealth around when oil prices were high.

[Deleted]

Still, capitalism works, so apparently it attracts less incompetence than socialism.

It is not even ten years since we were on the verge of falling into a depression that would make Venezuela look like a party.

[Pengekaer]

Because there are no corrupt or dishonest people in capitalist countries, apparently.

There are ;-) But in a liberal, capitalist society, even the poor subjects get to eat. ;-)
That is probably the main difference.

[Rennadrel]

My account which I haven't played since Firelands has more value in WoW gold than the average Venezuelan

[Deleted]

Proof that socialism works. We have it right here.

Do you talk about idological socialism as marx describes it or about what americans call socialism?

[Pengekaer]

Still, capitalism works, so apparently it attracts less incompetence than socialism.

Indeed. It's almost as if.. capitalism works as a selection mechanism, placing those who can't run a business lower on the ladder.
And it's almost as if.. socialism does not have this quality. ;-)
The selection process is very important. History has shown that socialist countries have a very hard time getting rid of inefficient undertakings.

[s_bushido]

Time for our weekly herp derp venezuela socialism thread? Sweet.

[Acidbaron]

It wasn't working in the first place.

It was a corrupt country before Chavez.

It was a slightly less corrupt country during Chavez.

It is a corrupt country after Chavez.

It only looked like it was working because Chavez was willing to spread some of the wealth around when oil prices were high.

Hence working during, you can argue how well it worked but it became an improvement and became much worse after as it was before. Now are there better alternatives certainly! but those are not what took place hence commenting the what is not what if's.

[Pengekaer]

Do you talk about idological socialism as marx describes it or about what americans call socialism?

In the term Marx described it. The whole point of the worker having as much right to the Mehrwert as the owner is stupid. Who will ever show entreprenuership under such circumstances? The funny thing is, noone does. We've had half a world under socialist rule for about 50 years and what did it ever really amount to, bar the Sputnik-program, the MIR and the Gulags?

[Deleted]

In the term Marx described it. The whole point of the worker having as much right to the Mehrwert as the owner is stupid. Who will ever show entreprenuership under such circumstances? The funny thing is, noone does. We've had half a world under socialist rule for about 50 years and what did it ever really amount to, bar the Sputnik-program, the MIR and the Gulags?

The marxian socialism never worked. Social market economy, OTOH, works.

[Pengekaer]

i thought Venezuela is an oil country? why it is not luxurious like the Arabian Gulf oil countries?

The Gulf states were smart enough to hire foreign people like Americans and Europeans and Asians, to do the stuff too hard for them. Like engineering, managing, construction oversight etc.

Venezuela got rid of foreign companies, foreign investors (actually stole their property and investments to some extent) and it had no competent people within its borders to serve as substitutes. The rest, is history.

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The marxian socialism never worked. Social market economy, OTOH, works.

The problem is the tax rate though. Social market economy can work, but as history sadly shows, the tax rates keep climbing. In Denmark, or the rest of Europe for that matter, the tax-trend has never been negative, only increasing. If it continues, the government will eventually keep close to 100 % of people's income. In Denmark, it's 55 % and counting.. that number isn't much lower in the rest of Europe.
Social market economy, I agree, is nice and pleasent under the right circumstances. But for it to work, a limit on the tax burden has to be set in the Constitution; no higher than xx %. Or else, the politicians will just keep raising it to fill budget gaps.

[Acidbaron]

There are, tons of them, but the way capitalism works, corruption and dishonesty ends up having a less devastating effect on the economy than socialism, because in part, capitalism is built around the idea that humans are selfish and greedy at their core, and uses that behavior as a tool to keep the economy ticking. Socialism (and communism) are built around the idea that all people are altruistic and idealogues who will put the interest of party and people above their own wants and needs. I would argue that (extreme) socialism and communism don't work because their idea of humanity as this kind of collective like the borg just plain isn't correct. Capitalism sees humanity as a collection of individuals working together out of a combination of necessity and enlightened self-interest.

Housing market crash, discredit any and all socialist measure to aid banks (this includes the bail outs). Explain how that situation would be 'less devastating to the economy'.

I'll read your reply tomorrow if you manage to actually produce something or maybe realize how silly and wrong that statement was you just made.

You have an overly romantic view of what capitalism actually is. I also just pointing out one crash there is a major crash every so many years and each one is getting worse and worse, the only reason economies survive is due to government bail outs, what are the direct opposite of a capitalist system, since if we followed that ideology to the letter, all banks during that crisis should be left to fail, all people should be left to be without money in their savings and pension funds and everything that is tied together. But do tell me how capitalism is not capable of creating such train wrecks while we have an example of that at least every 20 years.

[Independent voter]

The vote is to create the National Constituent Assembly, composed of new delegates who will rewrite Venezuela's Constitution. As NPR has reported, that rewrite would have the power to dissolve the National Assembly, an opposition-heavy body of lawmakers.

Opposition parties, who boycotted the vote, see the move as a step towards dictatorship, NPR's Reeves says. So does much of Venezuela's public, who've long expressed no appetite for the new assembly.



President Maduro is going to fix things by rewriting Venezuela's constitution from scratch.

[Deleted]

The problem is the tax rate though. Social market economy can work, but as history sadly shows, the tax rates keep climbing. In Denmark, or the rest of Europe for that matter, the tax-trend has never been negative, only increasing. If it continues, the government will eventually keep close to 100 % of people's income. In Denmark, it's 55 % and counting..

In germany it also is around 50%, but it is worth the money. We love our social system.

It works like a charm.