Thoughts about rerolling to DH 7.2.5

[mauserr]

99th percentile doesn't matter to the majority of people playing.On our first mythic sisters kill, our other DH was top dps and I was 5th. Don't let those statistics turn you away from a class. You can still do great damage in fights.

That's because the rest of your raid is worse than the DH. If you were on equal skill footing, your friend wouldn't be near the top, let alone at the top.

[Pigglix]

If you enjoy Demonic build, then 7.3 might be the best patch for you to try DH and i dont think Blizzard will change our bonus set(t21) because of the reasons they reverted the demon blades changes was "Hey, we want DH to have the feel of struggle with your inner demon" and demonic build perfects fits that mindset.

I for one, dont enjoy demonic build nor i enjoy that mindset of struggling with my inner demon.

With that said, i would jump off the demon hunter ship , if it wasnt for legendaries system and prestige system, (got all leggos for havoc, prestige 17 and the tower challenging weapon...) so changing toons is kinda meh..but eh, working on the warrior, who knows, maybe i get luck and score her two bis leggos soon, and prestige may come in time.

I cant speak for Vengence tho.

[Lens Hunter]

Play what is fun. Numbers always change, and just because super high end progression guilds always take whats best, doesnt mean there are mythic raiding guilds that wont let you play whatever you want, provided you carry your weight and dont mess anything up too much.

Personally, I only have time to keep one character geared.

Also, on the topic of Momentum, why doesnt Metamorphosis trigger it?

[Shirofune]

The general consensus around momentum appears to be that animation canceling is purely the result of momentum forcing you off-target for any length of time, resulting in potential damage loss and further consideration of boss mechanics. Thus, momentum is an ASPECT of the problem and not the entire issue. In fact one could argue that momentum is a non-issue altogether and that it is encounter design within the raid environment that is the primary source of problems. Example; in the majority of the rest of the game momentum works reasonably well but when subjected to the strictures of a raid (and sometimes dungeons, depending) it fails to perform adequately in the eyes of a few. Coincidentally, killing spree for rogues has had the same issue multiple times, though is different in its intent. By adapting encounter design to consider certain problem abilities, it immediately becomes a non-issue.

Now, I am not so naive as to believe that any of what I have said would be the best way to address the concerns with momentum as a talent, and certainly it should be looked at by the developer for ways to improve its usefulness to the Demon Hunter community. Rather, I want to urge the community to reach out to blizzard with well thought-out and written arguments and it's supporting evidence. If you desire change then it is up to all of you to lobby for that interest.

Personally, momentum was never something that I particularly enjoyed. The limitations it places upon the player seemed far in excess of its benefits, primarily in that it encourages you to burn up a charge of your movement enhancing ability, potentially forces your out of range of the boss for a period of time (which is dependent upon the hit box of the boss/mob in question), and subjects you to mechanics that are otherwise unresolvable. Additionally, management of short duration buffs has never been of interest to me personally which implants further bias into my perspective, though I am cognizant that some find the style of game play compelling. Placing the talent among on different row to make it a more attractive choice to the player does nothing to alleviate these concerns.

The question then becomes; Are there potential fixes that address these concerns? If so, detail those proposals. Else, alternative solutions may need to be investigated

And you might be right, but usually the easier to fix thing is the one to get fixed. Why Momentum doesn't work? Lets list some of the issues with it:

- Loss of target uptime due to small hitboxes
- Unease of use due to certain bosses arenas
- Inability to use due to certain mechanics (Flame Wreath, Grand Conjuction, Sisters of the Moon floor, etc...)
- Momentum takes away your mobility by using it rotationally

Now then, what do you think it's easier. Fixing all of the issues from above or removing Momentum?

Reworking bosses so the arenas are fair, their hitboxes are huge and the mechanics no longer include stack/spread for melees? Not going to happen.

I enjoyed Momentum at the beginning. It looked flashy as hell and it was also fun, but it didn't take long to see the gameplay was getting old real fast, and we were in EN by then, where no mechanics hardly punished us for Fel Rushing around (except maybe Cenarius if you were bad). I'm glad it was pushed away in 7.1.5 because honestly, I don't know how you could even manage to play Momentum in bosses like Star Augur.

And again, people is animation canceling Fel Rush currently because it isn't fun to Fel Rush around the boss, its annoying at best. Fel Rush is still bugged and still DCs you. With how things are, I seriously don't see any reason to continue using Momentum.

But sadly, it's not only Momentum that needs a rework in Havoc. First, class fantasy shouldn't be in a single talent row, the class fantasy, the core of how it plays, should be baseline. And second, we're totally incomplete, with 0 mechanics aside of using Blade Dance on CD as it currently stands. The whole class needs a rework and I'm sad to think that such rework will not arrive before 8.0.

New hero class, two specs instead of three and they even said that themselves, it's because they didn't want to make the specs simple. Well, here're the results. Legion has been disappointing at best, which is sad considering the art and sound teams made amazing jobs. It's so sad how a single team in charge of design and class balance can throw everything away.

[Deleted]

Has Havoc received any changes in the 7.3 ptr? Haven't seen any at all

[HeiAggra]

Has Havoc received any changes in the 7.3 ptr? Haven't seen any at all

Until now i saw 0 changes

- - - Updated - - -

That's because the rest of your raid is worse than the DH. If you were on equal skill footing, your friend wouldn't be near the top, let alone at the top.

I hate to admit but it's true.
Im usually top 3 dog on the guild, i have to rank at least purple to be there while other bellow me and bove not by far just saying can rank green or blue.
It's sad but he need to perform better to be on top!

[Lens Hunter]

New hero class, two specs instead of three and they even said that themselves, it's because they didn't want to make the specs simple. Well, here're the results. Legion has been disappointing at best, which is sad considering the art and sound teams made amazing jobs. It's so sad how a single team in charge of design and class balance can throw everything away.

You must be real fun at parties.

[Ramellan]

That's because the rest of your raid is worse than the DH. If you were on equal skill footing, your friend wouldn't be near the top, let alone at the top.

Never going to be a situation where everyone is equal skilled. Again like I said you can still top the meters easy.

[Shirofune]

Never going to be a situation where everyone is equal skilled. Again like I said you can still top the meters easy.

Do you realize that you're basically saying balance is irrelevant?

[kaelleria]

For anyone that doesn't think there are issues with DH right now, there are some really well researched and cited posts in the blizz class development forums. I'd link them but I can't at work.

Basically we're middle of the pack on ST and god awful when it comes to any cleave or aoe. This is an issue because quite a few fights have aoe/cleave components.
Aggregate -
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#dataset=99

Individual bosses -
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2037
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2036
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2052
https://www.warcraftlogs.com/statistics/13#boss=2054

You get the picture...
Things aren't going to change as our T21 is garbage and there's been 0 7.3 DH buffs...

[taek]

its funny because my thoughts of rerolling is due to monk's T21 which is so damn horrible and will place us in a horrible situation

monks did well in NH due to having superior AOE and cleave, they took that away, and inT21 our set bonus relies on boosting the weakest ability ...

well i guess i'll stick to my monk for mythic progression and have this DH for pvp and fun stuff

I wouldn't reroll from WW to DH based on future performance.


On PTR WW is getting just massive buffs, from Babs:

We have a new round of PTR changes for 7.3. Rather than list them all out, here’s a link.
TLR – Nearly all of our abilities had the 22% Aura baked in, and the Aura was reduced from 22% to 5%.
What this means

It means that they decided to finally take the aura we have and put it into the base damage of the abilities, increasing the base damage of most of our abilities by 22%. They also only reduced Windwalker Monk from 22% to 5%, so technically we had 22% damage baked into most abilities and then had another 5% added on top.

It's hilariously too early to call out who is going to do well on the next tier, but just current indicators show that Blizzard thinks WW needs a major buff and are already working on it.

[Ramellan]

Do you realize that you're basically saying balance is irrelevant?

Well let me put it this way. I don't think DH is bad, I feel like there are bad fights for the class, especially in the mythic versions. Why? Because we don't have significant sustained cleave. Druids and Priests are high up because they do. So what are the balance options that you want? Increase our numbers? Complete class overhaul? (although something crazy like eyebeam is a constant channel until broken with a longer cd would be interesting.) I enjoyed DH in Nighthold and I enjoy it now. We have smooth gameplay, great mobility, sweet defensives and (imo) decent damage.

It feels like when people ask for balance they want their class to be good at everything. ST, cleave, burst, etc. but if every class was the same it would be super boring.

[BiggestNoob]

They could make Chaos Cleave not suck by making it split CS but scale slower than linear so it's actually really strong on 2-4 targets, or make Fel Barrage competitive. They could also make BD/DS do chaos damage. There are lots of things they could do that are pretty simple and would totally fix Havoc, but they haven't so much as even hinted at a change, not even in 7.3, which means they're not going to buff it again.

It's going to be the worst DPS spec in T21 by a far margin, and they're done changing it this expansion.

[Shirofune]

Well let me put it this way. I don't think DH is bad, I feel like there are bad fights for the class, especially in the mythic versions. Why? Because we don't have significant sustained cleave. Druids and Priests are high up because they do. So what are the balance options that you want? Increase our numbers? Complete class overhaul? (although something crazy like eyebeam is a constant channel until broken with a longer cd would be interesting.) I enjoyed DH in Nighthold and I enjoy it now. We have smooth gameplay, great mobility, sweet defensives and (imo) decent damage.

It feels like when people ask for balance they want their class to be good at everything. ST, cleave, burst, etc. but if every class was the same it would be super boring.

The only fight in which we're good in the whole ToS is Maiden, and because of what makes that boss unique. The orbs and the extra damage dealt that also syncs with our CDs.

I linked in the first page fights that are entirely or almost entirely ST (Goroth, Sisters of the Moon) and you can see that we're either mid-tier or bottom-tier.

Exactly how are the bosses? Maiden is actually a rare boss.

And no, nobody is asking about DH being best at everything. What we ask, seeing we're bad at everything and average at ST, is to either increase our ST to good-best or increase our cleave and AoE.

Tell me, let's compare ourselves to Fury Warriors. Fury warriors currently have:

1- Better ST damage
2- Better Cleave damage
3- A LOT better AoE damage

In what position does that put us?

And we're not even talking about mechanics of the class. You can agree or not here. I, for example, don't think the class is fine from a gameplay perspective for the reasons I told before.

[Deleted]

I for one love pressing 1 then pressing 2 every 7 seconds

[Dimzum]

I mained a DH from the xpac pre-patch all the way up until 7.2. I had all the legendaries and my artifact maxed (before convergance was a thing). When it was obvious that many of the glaring issues stated in this thread weren't getting fixed or the "big changes" coming for DH in 7.2 didn't make it, I swapped back over to my rogue.

I've been playing subt mainly through all of my guilds progression in ToS (casual, just now working on heroic KJ). Knowing what I know about DH, I know just how awful several of the fights would be.
Inquisition - forget it, Nemesis would be wasted half the fight.
Sisters - Same as above. Also, good luck bursting the owls or shields.
Harjatan - Only if you tunnel the boss and let your BD, EB and FotI do the add damage.
Mistress - Same as Harjatan
Host - Ugly, especially if you're in spirit realm.
Maiden - Only good one
Avatar - This one would be truly awful. Even on my rogue as subt the tanks timing on maiden can really throw off your CD lineup. Then on the burn phase down below you have so much down time on the boss as a DH your dps would just plummet.

I'm glad I swapped and I haven't dusted the DH off in weeks.

[Deix-EU]

I mained a DH from the xpac pre-patch all the way up until 7.2. I had all the legendaries and my artifact maxed (before convergance was a thing). When it was obvious that many of the glaring issues stated in this thread weren't getting fixed or the "big changes" coming for DH in 7.2 didn't make it, I swapped back over to my rogue.

I've been playing subt mainly through all of my guilds progression in ToS (casual, just now working on heroic KJ). Knowing what I know about DH, I know just how awful several of the fights would be.
Inquisition - forget it, Nemesis would be wasted half the fight.
Sisters - Same as above. Also, good luck bursting the owls or shields.
Harjatan - Only if you tunnel the boss and let your BD, EB and FotI do the add damage.
Mistress - Same as Harjatan
Host - Ugly, especially if you're in spirit realm.
Maiden - Only good one
Avatar - This one would be truly awful. Even on my rogue as subt the tanks timing on maiden can really throw off your CD lineup. Then on the burn phase down below you have so much down time on the boss as a DH your dps would just plummet.

I'm glad I swapped and I haven't dusted the DH off in weeks.

Same but rogue is still lvling (never had one, tried and it's hell of fun). Kinda quitted the game for D3 and others things.

[Pigglix]

Eh , guess i'll stick with the DH, no matter how hard i try to stick with another class, i just keep having this bad feeling that i making a mistake if i just change mains, so eh, rip

DH is still fun to me and i guess that is what matter in the end. Dont get me wrong, i love my warrior, but DH i still more fun imo, and when i say more fun, im not looking only at the gamepay, but at the class features/comsetics.

Idk, something about double jump then glide and right after fel rushing into an enemy or just felblade, it feels good, cant really explain xD.

I just tired of playing the "number game" and eh, i'll just stick with the DH, because to me, no other class come close to this one in terms of overall fun.

[kaminami]

I mained a DH from the xpac pre-patch all the way up until 7.2. I had all the legendaries and my artifact maxed (before convergance was a thing). When it was obvious that many of the glaring issues stated in this thread weren't getting fixed or the "big changes" coming for DH in 7.2 didn't make it, I swapped back over to my rogue.

I've been playing subt mainly through all of my guilds progression in ToS (casual, just now working on heroic KJ). Knowing what I know about DH, I know just how awful several of the fights would be.
Inquisition - forget it, Nemesis would be wasted half the fight.
Sisters - Same as above. Also, good luck bursting the owls or shields.
Harjatan - Only if you tunnel the boss and let your BD, EB and FotI do the add damage.
Mistress - Same as Harjatan
Host - Ugly, especially if you're in spirit realm.
Maiden - Only good one
Avatar - This one would be truly awful. Even on my rogue as subt the tanks timing on maiden can really throw off your CD lineup. Then on the burn phase down below you have so much down time on the boss as a DH your dps would just plummet.

I'm glad I swapped and I haven't dusted the DH off in weeks.

Inquisition - you have the full minute on pull starting on Atrigan, the Nemeses after that you'll lose just the cast time of their respective channels.
Sisters - on Mythic, the individual bosses stay up long enough that you don't lose any uptime. You can Nemesis the add if you like, because bosses and owl are both Undead.
Harjatan - tunneling the boss is fine tbh, switching to the caster murlocs for a few seconds doesn't exactly ruin your whole dps on the fight either though.
Mistress - again, "tunneling" is fine as it's mostly a ST fight. you can Nemesis a murloc later on and get the Humanoid-buff.
Host - I hope you realize how Nemesis works - Nemesis one of the small residue adds at the beginning, profit. Everything down there is labelled as Undead.
Avatar - not sure what's so terrible about it. every melee gets downtime in the 2nd phase. on the first phase, you just rarely have to hit the maid for a couple of seconds, which is not a big deal.

[Ericdaroude]

I rerolled away and didnt look back. however on fast hc zergs im doing just fine on havoc