Neo Nazis losing jobs after being publicly outed

[Synros]

You mean by winning the popular vote and losing the electoral college?

I like how you dumb down hate speech and bigotry as "different politics". That's exciting and new.

I'm let you in on a little fact. The "Popular Vote" has never been the deciding factor in an election. Funny how the Left never seemed to care about how the electoral system functioned, until they got utterly destroyed in what should have been the easiest election of their lives. Trump is an absolute idiot, but he wasn't Hillary Clinton. A Trump needed to happen. It's a wake up call for the Establishment Left to get their shit together, and to stop running the same old corrupt Wallstreet types candidates. They have no one to blame but themselves for their lose. It's up to the Dems to seize this opportunity given to them, or fall back in that same regressive pit and hand Trump another victory in 2020. But given how they'd rather blame their loss on unfounded conspiracy theories, I'm not holding my breath.

[Isadora]

"Well, I guess you actively support the killing of people based on their religion, race and/or heritage, but oh well, we can't really fault you for that, can we? You're still hired. As is the guy next to you, who writes a blog advertizing the disembowling of men who like cats. But really, it's perfectly fine if you think breaking the law is a good thing and that hate crimes aren't actually hate crimes, but just differences in opinion."

And don't tell me this is a far-fetched comparison. Nazis support murder and death, it's as simple as that. At some point you have to draw the line, I don't even understand how it came so far that we're having this discussion now. Nazis are shunned for a reason, they support the systematic killing of millions of people. Get the fuck out with your "Well, this really is a thin red line we're walking".

[Synros]

Maybe it'll be Syria. Or Venezuela. Or Iran. Or whatever other country Trump's threatened recently.

I'm just going to back up for a second. You do realize North Korea has been threatening to destroy the US for decades, and that even Obama issued a similar statement back in 2014, right? I just want to know that you know that...

[Sama-81]

Attending an alt right Neo Nazi white nationalist rally isn't simply "holding political opinions". It's endorsing hate speech, violence, and all around bigotry. Getting fired from a job absolutely is a social consequence. It's certainly not a legal consequence. What fictional category would you put it in?

It absolutely is a legal consequence here in my country, in that it is a de facto illegal action taken by the employer (in this case). Not in America, I know, but then again we are a lot more liberal here. Attending such a demonstration might be disgusting, but what people do on their spare time (that isn't illegal) is not a concern of the employer, unless the individual himself makes it such, more or less. Or it has a very tangible effect on his ability to perform his job, without involvement from coworkers or the employer (ie on the customer-side, for example), and even then straight out termination is likely not warranted.

[Astalnar]

Because this statement demonstrates you don't actually understand the 1st Amendment. The only thing that it does is protect you from the government censoring or jailing you over speech. And even then there are exceptions. Hate speech is not protected. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected. Beyond that, the 1st Amendment has zero bearing on the social repercussions of such speech. Welcome to real life. Where it's always been this way. And always will be. Don't like it? Too bad.

1. You don't seem to uderstand where the phrase shouting fire in a crowded theater originates, and in what context it was used. You might want to look it up.

2. There is no such thing as hate speech laws in the USA. Try again. Hate speech is not tantamount to call to action. You can say A is superior to B. Or B is inferior to C and the law cannot touch you for it.

3. You're missing my point by deflecting, so I will reiterate for you: Why is it ok to fire someone over their personal beliefs, but not okay to fire someone else over theirs?

4. I agree with your conclusion. There are social repercussions. But that is a double edged sword, and you can be sure it will cut both ways. Remember Newton's 3rd law of motion? For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If the left does it to the right, the right will do it to the left in response.

[Sama-81]

Free speech does not protect people from social consequences. Which being fired absolutely is.

Well, in a liberal country such as mine, they would be (and are) protected from that. Pretending it is a stricly social consequence is rather fitting for a country like the US though, being so very far to the right as they are compared to most other countries, so I guess it's only suiting the reverse is true over there.

[omeomorfismo]

The Nazis aren't American. I thought America was founded on the principles of tolerance, welcoming immigrants and being a united people. Not becoming the enemy the US fought and defeated in the second World War.

As much as it must pain the alt-right, the immigrants they detest are more American than they'll ever be, in every sense but being born in the country. And being born in a country doesn't magically make you better than people who want to join.

lulz? you really think that US was founded with tollerance and segregation at the same time?
US defeated nazis?
there are history lessons in US schools?

[jibberbox85]

Having a racist employ can negatively affect business.

I agree with that statement. However, are we setting a precedence for how these types of situations are handled?

[Synros]

And don't tell me this is a far-fetched comparison. Nazis support murder and death, it's as simple as that. At some point you have to draw the line, I don't even understand how it came so far that we're having this discussion now. Nazis are shunned for a reason, they support the systematic killing of millions of people. Get the fuck out with your "Well, this really is a thin red line we're walking".

And it's a simple fact that Communists do as well. It's responsible for 10s of millions of deaths, and counting. Yet for some odd reason, I don't see many people calling for the same actions to be taken. Do you condemn Communism? Or are you one of those people who excuses the countless atrocities committed under Communism, because it wasn't "real" Communism?

[Wyrt]

Well, in a liberal country such as mine, they would be (and are) protected from that. Pretending it is a stricly social consequence is rather fitting for a country like the US though, being so very far to the right as they are compared to most other countries, so I guess it's only suiting the reverse is true over there.

Don't more liberal countries have hate speech laws and would never allow a KKK/nazi rally to happen to begin with?

[cuafpr]

for everyone going out for blood based on twitter pics,,,,, i hope none of them happen to look like you.

[pateuvasiliu]

They only fired him because he's White!!!!


Badum tss

[Sama-81]

Don't more liberal countries have hate speech laws and would never allow a KKK/nazi rally to happen to begin with?

Hate speech laws, yes. Not allowing such demonstrations, no. The latter most certainly isn't a hallmark of a liberal nation, rather the opposite in fact. No matter the opinions the people that demonstrate hold. Obviously, hate speech laws are still in effect during the demonstrations, though.

[Wyrt]

Hate speech laws, yes. Not allowing such demonstrations, no. The latter most certainly isn't a hallmark of a liberal nation, rather the opposite in fact. No matter the opinions the people that demonstrate hold. Obviously, hate speech laws are still in effect during the demonstrations, though.

They're groups specifically dedicated to hate speech. Well, violence too if they can get away with it.

[Aleksej89]

Opinion is just that, an opinion.
A subjective preference that is quite often more founded on emotions and good/bad experiences than it is on pure logic, reason and empirical data.

The whole problem both with the employers and the general public is that opinions are taken extremely seriously and often out of context ("selective listening").
Personally i really don't give much importance to other people's opinions.

Yea sure if someone says some really racist or sexist things then that person is probably not going to be my ideal friend.
But i certainly wont make a big deal out of it... certainly not national/global breaking news type of big deal.

I will just shrug it off as whatever other unrelatable stuff happens in this world and continue on with my life.
That person is free to his opinion and i'm free to have mine, and if we want we both can voice with decency what we think.

When dealing with customers then the employees personal opinions really have no place there.
You can be the most hardcore racist/sexist/whatever but if your job is to help/relate to customers then you have to do that job professionally.

Personally i reaaaally dislike when girls shave half their side-hair off like their head fell into a lawnmower, but i wont ever let that opinion affect how i do my job during working hours.
Once you are on a break or the working hours finish you can say whatever you want but all of that still falls within the "decent behavior of not acting like a baboon" law.

People think and feel many things and i think it is extremely important to allow people to voice their thoughts and opinions in a well behaved manner.
I personally disagree with this whole "white CIS whatever" stuff i see everywhere but i would never censor their right to say it, though their manners could use improvement.

A fitting quote i believe is "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

[Noomz]

Because this statement demonstrates you don't actually understand the 1st Amendment. The only thing that it does is protect you from the government censoring or jailing you over speech. And even then there are exceptions. Hate speech is not protected. Yelling fire in a crowded theater is not protected. Beyond that, the 1st Amendment has zero bearing on the social repercussions of such speech. Welcome to real life. Where it's always been this way. And always will be. Don't like it? Too bad.

- - - Updated - - -



And so is figuring out who these people are and posting it on the Internet, contacting their employers, etc. To use your own words, deal with it.

You're allowed to get people fired, to harass them, stalk them, give them death threats and make their life miserable? No, I don't think so. You must understand that I don't defend Nazis, but I defend a viewpoint in which I think that this kind of behavior is extremely damaging and detrimental to a democracy. Because people simply don't stop there and they attack anything and anyone that disagree with them.
It's also a viewpoint of defending the innocent people that this affects, such as the families of these people or the completely unrelated people who just happen to have the same names as some of these guys, who've recieved death threats themselves.

THAT, is why this is unacceptable. You're a bully and a scoundrel if you act like this. That kind of behavior further creates an environment of violence and repression, doing no favors for democracy nor freedom. It might sound like idealistic garbage because you see infront of you what you percieve as pure evil, but you must see the bigger picture. These kinds of actions reverberate through the entire political climate, setting stakes and behavior which perpetuates more violence and further polarizes politics. It's exactly the kind of behavior that the extreme right do themselves, so being above it makes you the better person.

One should always use proper channels and proper democratic means by which to represent ones opinion and for opposing other opinions. In other words, keep it on the political platform.

[hellhamster]

Democratic values are diminishing every year it seems, not just in America, but everywhere.

[Deleted]

for everyone going out for blood based on twitter pics,,,,, i hope none of them happen to look like you.

Really? No irony with this statement whatsoever?

[Noomz]

Opinion is just that, an opinion.
A subjective preference that is quite often more founded on emotions and good/bad experiences than it is on pure logic, reason and empirical data.

The whole problem both with the employers and the general public is that opinions are taken extremely seriously and often out of context ("selective listening").
Personally i really don't give much importance to other people's opinions.

Yea sure if someone says some really racist or sexist things then that person is probably not going to be my ideal friend.
But i certainly wont make a big deal out of it... certainly not national/global breaking news type of big deal.

I will just shrug it off as whatever other unrelatable stuff happens in this world and continue on with my life.
That person is free to his opinion and i'm free to have mine, and if we want we both can voice with decency what we think.

When dealing with customers then the employees personal opinions really have no place there.
You can be the most hardcore racist/sexist/whatever but if your job is to help/relate to customers then you have to do that job professionally.

Personally i reaaaally dislike when girls shave half their side-hair off like their head fell into a lawnmower, but i wont ever let that opinion affect how i do my job during working hours.
Once you are on a break or the working hours finish you can say whatever you want but all of that still falls within the "decent behavior of not acting like a baboon" law.

People think and feel many things and i think it is extremely important to allow people to voice their thoughts and opinions in a well behaved manner.
I personally disagree with this whole "white CIS whatever" stuff i see everywhere but i would never censor their right to say it, though their manners could use improvement.

A fitting quote i believe is "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it".

To some extent yes. One must lead by example, to be the better person, to exemplarize the ideals one wants to stand for. You will attract more flies with honey than with vinegar, as they say, a person is much more likely to hear you out and even take in what you say if you're giving them an informed, respectful and open discussion. Which is what we must strive to maintain.

But I would say that an opinion that is vehemently anti-democratic, violent and hateful which might actually want to damage, impede or remove democracy actually goes against such values and doesn't deserve representation. But one shouldn't stoop to their level either.

[Sama-81]

They're groups specifically dedicated to hate speech. Well, violence too if they can get away with it.

Well, our neo-nazi's manage to behave enough to have their own demonstrations, at least. Of course, we don't have the same tradition of racism and whites vs. blacks as you do, but if they can manage, even the KKK ought to? Either way, it works for us, at any rate.

Edit: Maybe I ought to point out as well, that our extreme left-demonstrations tend to be more violent than those of the extreme right.