Protesters destroy confederate monument in Durham

[Crissi]

Can we get a source for this wall of text, the last 2 sentences seem kind of like... revisionism... so I#d rather check the source

Sourse: http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/...oric_is_i.html

I read up on the guy/ He is a Lost Causer, and Lost Causeism is a discredited opinion in historical communities for being the bullshit it is.

[Pannonian]

Sourse: http://www.al.com/opinion/index.ssf/...oric_is_i.html

I read up on the guy/ He is a Lost Causer, and Lost Causeism is a discredited opinion in historical communities for being the bullshit it is.

So, this is some fringe opinion? Because that would be rather diametrical to what i learned about the american civil war. Also, i edited something else to my previous post: If we just go by what the politicians proclaimed, Poland obviously started WW2.

[rogueMatthias]

Violence begets violence. Hate begets hate.

Every one knows this can only end in chaos and death right?

They're all as dumb and hateful as each other - it's only fluke that more people on both sides haven't died yet. Just wait for everyone to start bringing their guns to these "protests". Good luck USA!

[Deleted]

Except for the fact that they were doing that to their own slaves... nice try.

The slaves were destined to be deported but Lincoln got assassinated and all hell broke lose as everyone started improvising methods of dealing with it.

[Crissi]

So, this is some fringe opinion? Because that would be rather diametrical to what i learned about the american civil war. Also, i edited something else to my previous post: If we just go by what the politicians proclaimed, Poland obviously started WW2.

It is extremely biased and leaves out a lot of facts, like how Lincoln wanted to contain slavery where it was and have it die a natural death. How many of the confed states directly cited slavery as a top reason to leave. That many off the issues of the day were related to slavery.

Yeah, Lincoln initially just wanted to preserve the Union, but that started changing along the way.

[tankbug]

No tears for the symbolic value, but I don't like vandalism and destruction of art. I'm glad we have ww2 propaganda posters etc, because they have historical value. Mobs are dumb and destructive, but I guess the polarization of the political sides in the US have come to a stage where violence and vandalism is inevitable. Sigh...

[Tackhisis]

Show me where in the Constitution that it is explicitly written the mechanism by which a state was allowed to leave the Union. I'll wait.

You can't, because it isn't there.

Well, if it isn't there, every state can do that by the decree of its government. That's how such things work.

[Deleted]

Obviously utterly stupid and unacceptable vandalism. Those responsible for it should get to face the appropriate consequences, no question.

[Tinykong]

Why do we need to take these statues down? They represent something that happened, which everyone should remember.

Marching around in Nazi regalia and spewing white supremacist nonsense is definitely not the right way to respond to people wanting to tear down these statues.

[Tackhisis]

<stupid picture>

Hitler is a convicted criminal.
Confederates were not convicted.

[Sama-81]

Bugger off with the concern trolling. Educated people are aware of the factors that played into 2016, people tearing down a statue of a racist is not one of them.

I don't know, depends on which racist perhaps? Imagine if they for example showed some consistency in tearing down statues of racists, and went for one of George Washington too? Not too sure "well he was a racist" would exactly have meant that everyone was cool with it then...

[Pannonian]

Hitler is a convicted criminal.
Confederates were not convicted.

Hate to spoil that, but Hitler was never convicted for his crimes during WW2 - he committed suicide before he could be caught. Though technically you're right (he was convicted after his botched coup, but this was seen by the german population as an act of martyrdom) i don't think that's what you meant.

[Flarelaine]

Maybe stop listening start reading what the folks back then actually said. i guess if this guy said he cured cancer u will claim that also. lol

Since you seem to promote reading, let me supply you with some.

For twenty-five years this agitation has been steadily increasing, until it has now secured to its aid the power of the common Government. Observing the forms of the Constitution, a sectional party has found within that Article establishing the Executive Department, the means of subverting the Constitution itself. A geographical line has been drawn across the Union, and all the States north of that line have united in the election of a man to the high office of President of the United States, whose opinions and purposes are hostile to slavery. He is to be entrusted with the administration of the common Government, because he has declared that that "Government cannot endure permanently half slave, half free," and that the public mind must rest in the belief that slavery is in the course of ultimate extinction.

This sectional combination for the submersion of the Constitution, has been aided in some of the States by elevating to citizenship, persons who, by the supreme law of the land, are incapable of becoming citizens; and their votes have been used to inaugurate a new policy, hostile to the South, and destructive of its beliefs and safety.

On the 4th day of March next, this party will take possession of the Government. It has announced that the South shall be excluded from the common territory, that the judicial tribunals shall be made sectional, and that a war must be waged against slavery until it shall cease throughout the United States.

The full text is here. It was too long to quote it all but what part of it is not lawyering is yammering about slaves. (Emphasis mine.)

[truckboattruck]

Please find us the history books where people say slavery was a good thing in west africa or anywhere for that matter. One bad thing doesn't absolve another.

so blaming others for the crimes of black africans is fair in your mind?
do you even know how many slaves were sold to traders who then sold them in the english colonies?

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We do?

Nice Whataboutism here.

Doesn't change the fact that the united states instituionalized slaverly and saw it as morally acceptable for a long time. I think we're over that, though looking at c-ville...
@Statues in Germany:

We do have a lot of statues commemorating: We got some for the fallen soldiers (not only the locals, also for the fallen allies who liberated our countries) and we even have official ceremonies. But here is the difference: We think about the victims of the war, and the useless destruction of war.

We don't put a statue of General Paulus and commemorate the second world war, because... that would be kinda stupid.

no...not whataboutism
the number of slaves sold by africans is insanely higher than ones sold to the american colonists
the numbers dont even come close

[Pannonian]

I don't know, depends on which racist perhaps? Imagine if they for example showed some consequence in tearing down statues of racists, and went for one of George Washington too? Not too sure "well he was a racist" would exactly have meant that everyone was cool with it then...

I has a lot to do with perception. While both men were probably racist, it's the question why are the remembered for.

For Washington you'll have a massive majority perceiving him as the foremost founding father and a moral paragon. Was he a racist and slave-owner, yes, but that's not what he is known for.

Now for General Lee the things are a bit different. While i can understand why some people perceive him as a patriot, others perceive him as a symbol of slavery. And as both sides aren't small minorities, this person is automatically very controversial.

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so blaming others for the crimes of black africans is fair in your mind?
do you even know how many slaves were sold to traders who then sold them in the english colonies?

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no...not whataboutism
the number of slaves sold by africans is insanely higher than ones sold to the american colonists
the numbers dont even come close

And?

Does that make slavery in the US right?

We can call out 2 bad things at the same time.

[Adam Jensen]

so blaming others for the crimes of black africans is fair in your mind?
do you even know how many slaves were sold to traders who then sold them in the english colonies?

Why does it matter if black africans sold slaves? Does that somehow make it right for white Americans to own them?

[Deleted]

Why do we need to take these statues down? They represent something that happened, which everyone should remember.

No, they glorify the Confederation. Nothing else.

While I may not agree letting a mob do the tearing, they should be torn down. They are an insult not a reminder.

[Themius]

Maybe stop listening start reading what the folks back then actually said. i guess if this guy said he cured cancer u will claim that also. lol

Mississippi:

Our position is thoroughly identified with the institution of slavery—the greatest material interest of the world. Its labor supplies the product which constitutes by far the largest and most important portions of commerce of the earth. These products are peculiar to the climate verging on the tropical regions, and by an imperious law of nature, none but the black race can bear exposure to the tropical sun. These products have become necessities of the world, and a blow at slavery is a blow at commerce and civilization. That blow has been long aimed at the institution, and was at the point of reaching its consummation. There was no choice left us but submission to the mandates of abolition, or a dissolution of the Union, whose principles had been subverted to work out our ruin…

Texas:

...in this free government all white men are and of right ought to be entitled to equal civil and political rights; that the servitude of the African race, as existing in these States, is mutually beneficial to both bond and free, and is abundantly authorized and justified by the experience of mankind, and the revealed will of the Almighty Creator, as recognized by all Christian nations; while the destruction of the existing relations between the two races, as advocated by our sectional enemies, would bring inevitable calamities upon both and desolation upon the fifteen slave-holding states....

Jefferson Davis:

As a mere historical fact, we have seen that African servitude among us ―confessedly the mildest and most humane of all institutions to which the name “slavery” has ever been applied―existed in all the original states, and that it was recognized and protected in the fourth article of the Constitution.

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Why does it matter if black africans sold slaves? Does that somehow make it right for white Americans to own them?

He's full of whataboutism.

[truckboattruck]

Why does it matter if black africans sold slaves? Does that somehow make it right for white Americans to own them?

stupid question to be honest
the same reason a 10 dollar bill cant buy as much as a 20 dollar bill

youre ignoring the reality of the situation so you can attack the group you want to attack

[Everwake]

This is the end result of the most coddled generation America has ever produced, searching for purpose. Everyone wants to be a Civil rights hero, but because there's nothing to fight for these days, they'll just have to manufacture their own "great struggle". And who knows? Maybe a picture of them kicking a statue will get retweeted by an internet celebrity and they will earn some cred.