Protesters destroy confederate monument in Durham

[D3thray]

Wasn't Robert E. Lee the head of the Confederate Army? The Army that was fighting to succeed from the United States because of slavery being abolished? He represents the slavery side. Learn from him. Read about him. Just don't celebrate him in a public way. Not difficult.

He's a model about how you don't vilify the people you disagree with. I will absolutely celebrate him for that. If there were more Abe Lincolns and Robert E Lees instead of Hillary Clintons and Donald Trumps, the US would be much better off.

[BuckSparkles]

Not to diminish the millions of deaths in the gulags, but sadly this has occurred before and after. What the Nazis stand out for, and that's what a lot of people don't get, is the industrialized destruction of a people, that has never been done before, and gladly never since.

Even if communism has claimed more lives?

[cubby]

Is there a severe case of exact replicas of these statues? Genuine question as the Portuguese people is quite fond of their statues and I can't think, out of the top of my head, two exact ones.
So I'd say that hypothetical scenario isn't that high on the priority list of worries.

Then tear them all down, put one of each person in your museum, and melt the rest down for scrap. Pretty easy.

[Deleted]

Is there a severe case of exact replicas of these statues? Genuine question as the Portuguese people is quite fond of their statues and I can't think, out of the top of my head, two exact ones.
So I'd say that hypothetical scenario isn't that high on the priority list of worries.

Are we? In 1978, someone used dynamite to destroy Salazar's statue.

I worked directly with the Portuguese museums and I can assure you that we don't even have space for the history that we want to promote, even less for those we just want to safekeep.

[cubby]

He's a model about how you don't vilify the people you disagree with. I will absolutely celebrate him for that. If there were more Abe Lincolns and Robert E Lees instead of Hillary Clintons and Donald Trumps, the US would be much better off.

No one is vilifying him. You HAVE to stop equating not wanting to celebrating publicly with vilifying. People just don't want statues of historical figures that fought for slavery in the public arena.

[Dug]

Even if communism has claimed more lives?

If you claim you're not for violence on either side stop making it a contest.

[Darkeon]

Then tear them all down, put one of each person in your museum, and melt the rest down for scrap. Pretty easy.

Why would one tear them down when, at worst case scenario, they can be shipped to a different museum?
And again - I got a feeling that there are not that many exact replicas of these statues lying around for this to be a worry worthy issue.

[D3thray]

More like 3 years too early for that. We'll probably be at that point by 2020 if it keeps going at this rate. Pretty soon I'm going to have to put on a blackface in order to step foot outside or I'll be stoned for being born a privileged white cis male.

It's like whatever the opposite of whitewashing history is. Blackwashing?

[Raptor With a Saber]

If you think they're giving the far right justification then you're saying their actions justify the response. They might be giving the far right an excuse but not justification.

In their mind it is justified. It doesn't matter if you see it as that or not when to them it is. This is exactly what they want from both sides is to be jusitifed by the other and this has given it to them. Again i am not taking a either ors side both are acting like children. They giving eachothers a reason. NOT ME, them. Im helping you see both sides PoV.

[Darkeon]

Are we? In 1978, someone used dynamite to destroy Salazar's statue.

I worked directly with the Portuguese museums and I can assure you that we don't even have space for the history that we want to promote, even less for those we want to safekeep.

And, as someone who works in a museum (or in that general department), is the destruction of cultural artworks something you endorse?

[D3thray]

No one is vilifying him. You HAVE to stop equating not wanting to celebrating publicly with vilifying. People just don't want statues of historical figures that fought for slavery in the public arena.

We ARE having this discussion in a thread started by a video of vandals tearing down a statue and kicking it aren't we?

[BuckSparkles]

No one is vilifying him. You HAVE to stop equating not wanting to celebrating publicly with vilifying. People just don't want statues of historical figures that fought for slavery in the public arena.

I get the feeling most people don't care. It's the looking to be offended crowd who want to eliminate them.

[Raptor With a Saber]

How are protestors fighting against Nazis and the KKK as bad as Nazis and the KKK?

I mean, we're talking about terrorists here. If ISIS were marching through the streets of America and beating people with sticks, would you say that people who are in the streets fighting back against them are as bad as ISIS?

No one was beating anyone with sticks or anything until their opposition showed you.
This is the U.S everyone has the right to say what they want even if you dont like it.
Someone saying or standing for something you dont like doesnt give you the right to attack them.
terrorists or not they were not hurting anyone until the opp showed up and started with them.
Both sides acted like children

[I take neither side in this in any way shape or form ideology wise]

[Deleted]

And, as someone who works in a museum (or in that general department), is the destruction of cultural artworks something you endorse?

Did I endorse it anywhere on this thread? I even called vandalism and that it should be moved to a museum:

This is pure vandalism. The correct solution would be move the statue to a museum, explain its story and be done with it.

[therealbowser]

Sad that wanton destruction of historical monuments is being seen as a good thing. This is just going to spark more uproar and backlash, but then again I suspect that's what they want. Truly foolish notions.

[I Push Buttons]

I don't give a shit about the monument, though those responsible should be prosecuted for vandalism and what not...

What I find truly disgusting is the chant of these retards... "No cops, no KKK, no fascists, USA"...

They put police officers on the same level as fucking racists and Nazis? Are you fucking kidding me? These people are legitimately disgusting... Reprehensible in every way.

[Pannonian]

Even if communism has claimed more lives?

Time matters in this case. Again, in total numbers you're right. What the Nazis stand out for is what the "achieved" in just 3 years. That is truly horrible. It doesn't make the communists and their murders justified and somehow acceptable and you're right, real-communism claimed more people in total, but they also had a lot more time.

I repeat: genocide on a massive industrial scale, destruction processes. I'm not talking about cramming people into a camp and working them to death. Sad true is this has happened before and after. What the Nazis did is even more horrible than that.

That's why the people were shocked when the saw the KZ's and they're still to this day. That's why the existence of the gas chambers (and their stupid asshat deniers) matter, because that's an important part of a structured and organized genocide.

As you can see, i dont argue for one being "badder" than the other, both political systems have caused a lot of misery and i think they question of who has more corpses, is kinda moot if both are unbelievably high and in itself a monument to inhumanity. But if you want me to say it: Yeah, they killed more.

[Maybach]

We ARE having this discussion in a thread started by a video of vandals tearing down a statue and kicking it aren't we?

The bit that made me laugh were the two idiots giving the now fallen statue the finger

The prone statue was clearly distraught by these obscene gestures........

[Shadowmelded]

In their mind it is justified. It doesn't matter if you see it as that or not when to them it is. This is exactly what they want from both sides is to be jusitifed by the other and this has given it to them. Again i am not taking a either ors side both are acting like children. They giving eachothers a reason. NOT ME, them. Im helping you see both sides PoV.

I see both sides point of view but again, it's not justification and they don't even need this to continue doing what they do. They'll find some other excuse like the myriad conspiracy theories and invented sleights and grievances they've been pushing for years.

[cubby]

Why would one tear them down when, at worst case scenario, they can be shipped to a different museum?
And again - I got a feeling that there are not that many exact replicas of these statues lying around for this to be a worry worthy issue.

Well now we're talking about things that aren't high on your list of priorities - unless you misspoke earlier. And who cares about exact replicas? Just one of each person you want to be visually remembered in the museum and we're good, right?