Draenor Pathfidner needs to go.

[SirCowdog]

I called your comments false, thus attacking your argument. I cannot be held responsible for you not knowing the difference and taking it personally.

It's called character assassination, and straw man. You go after my credibility with false claims, attempting to discredit anything further I might say. And now you're backpedaling. I notice that you didn't actually quote me ever saying I subbed after 7.1. You just made up some claims about me in a weak attempt to make me(and by extension my arguments) look bad, instead of addressing the arguments directly. You effectively called me a liar with no evidence.

As for this topic, there are certain facts that are undeniable:

1. With flight, you can get from A to B faster, thus spending less time over all completing dailies, or other tasks.

Sigh...here we go...

See, this is EXACTLY what I just said: Yes, flying gets you from point A to point B faster in the short term. But when looked at on a larger scale of weeks and months(you know, the rate at which you pay for the game), timegates makes any short-term increase in speed negligible. Regardless, even if you're clearing daily quests or gathering or "other tasks" more quickly, it just leaves you more time to spend elsewhere in the game, such as on raiding or dungeons or PVP.

This is why I say that flying doesn't actually harm the rate of consumption. Now if you want to argue about how the content is PRESENTED(Blizzard's wording), that's an entirely different discussion that's highly subjective and based on each individual's personal taste. For the record I don't believe that argument holds up to scrutiny either, but because it's Blizzard's artistic vision, or whatever, there's not much to be said about it.

2. The Devs have a new method in which to earn flight, and max level flight of old appears to be just that, a thing of the past.

And we're not talking about "max level flight" are we? We're talking about an outdated system in leveling content from a previous expansion. I've already pointed out that Blizzard's stance is about how CURRENT content is presented. WoD is not current. WoD is not max level content. WoD Pathfinder should therefor no longer be a barrier to flying in that content.

3. Anyone who wants flight bad enough will earn it, others will just sit and bitch about the inconvenience.

Run out of arguments again? Going to claim that any argument that opposes your own point of view is "bitching"?

4. While Draenor content is not "current" content, it is still relevant to the story leading up to Legion.

Going by that logic, players should be required to clear all of WoD's story before being able to progress into any of Legion's content.

If we are going to do away with past pre-reqs, we should just start handing out the old gear for free so people no longer have to farm tmogs. Maybe you should write to Blizz and ask them to auto unlock everything at the end of each expac for the folks who were too lazy or entitled so they can have what others worked to achieve.

Straw man. Players are not asking for tmogs for free. I get so sick of people in the pro-pathfinder camp claiming that anyone who wants the game changed to make more sense is either "Bitching and complaining" or "asking for free stuff".

Players are not asking for flight for free. They're simply pointing out that the laundry list for WoD pathfinder is exceptionally unnecessary, and should be toned down or reverted to being a simple gold purchase, much in the same way that other older requirements have been changed to recognize the fact that the content is no longer relevant. We see this with older raids having their attunements removed, and some of their fight mechanics altered to allow soloing. We see it every expansion with catch-up mechanics to allow players to skip past, or speed up, previously tedious tasks.

No, the Medallion of the Legion doesn't cut it in that regard. First because it's farmed by other players, and is still a reputation grind done at max level(which is the primary point of contention here). Second, because it's often not readily available for purchase, and the price is wildly fluctuating due to the player-driven market, and not set by the game itself. If you were to argue that Medallions should be in a vendor on Tanaan for a set price, then we'd have something to talk about.

[HordeFanboy]

no It doesnt

[-Joker-]

It's called character assassination, and straw man.

<Insert fancy worded retort to resolve off topic discussion and parsing of words.>

Sigh...here we go...

See, this is EXACTLY what I just said: Yes, flying gets you from point A to point B faster in the short term. But when looked at on a larger scale of weeks and months(you know, the rate at which you pay for the game), timegates makes any short-term increase in speed negligible.

This is why I say that flying doesn't actually harm the rate of consumption.

*cough* Bullshit *cough* I remember leveling on the ground from 90 to 100 before the achievement. Took me a week. Then I leveled alts with flight and they took me 2-3 days depending on my dedication. This means 310% flight on Draenor allowed me to level in half the time, with half the effort since I did not have to ride through stuff, get dazed, and then fight my way out. I could land, fight, fly away. Just because you never got flight and never discovered that truth for yourself does not make it a fallacy.

And we're not talking about "max level flight" are we? We're talking about an outdated system in leveling content from a previous expansion. I've already pointed out that Blizzard's stance is about how CURRENT content is presented. WoD is not current. WoD is not max level content. WoD Pathfinder should therefor no longer be a barrier to flying in that content.

No, we are talking about content that leads to max level. A required step to reach Legion.

Run out of arguments again? Going to claim that any argument that opposes your own point of view is "bitching"?

Not at all. There are plenty of people who disagree with me who are not whiners or bitches. People who are still pissed about the Draenor Pathfinder and have not gone back to get it at 110... are whiners who only want to bitch until Blizz reverts their stance on Flight.

Going by that logic, players should be required to clear all of WoD's story before being able to progress into any of Legion's content.

I think they should. There are several key story moments, including Gul'dan achievements in Tanaan Jungle. Without that back story, most of Legion just doesn't make sense. If people would complete the Loremaster of Draenor, and the Tanaan achievements, they might have a better understanding of what is happening on the Broken Isles, and what went down at the start of the expac.

Straw man. Players are not asking for tmogs for free. I get so sick of people in the pro-pathfinder camp claiming that anyone who wants the game changed to make more sense is either "Bitching and complaining" or "asking for free stuff".

Players are not asking for flight for free. They're simply pointing out that the laundry list for WoD pathfinder is exceptionally unnecessary, and should be toned down or reverted to being a simple gold purchase, much in the same way that other older requirements have been changed to recognize the fact that the content is no longer relevant. We see this with older raids having their attunements removed, and some of their fight mechanics altered to allow soloing. We see it every expansion with catch-up mechanics to allow players to skip past, or speed up, previously tedious tasks.

No, the Medallion of the Legion doesn't cut it in that regard. First because it's farmed by other players, and is still a reputation grind done at max level(which is the primary point of contention here). Second, because it's often not readily available for purchase, and the price is wildly fluctuating due to the player-driven market, and not set by the game itself. If you were to argue that Medallions should be in a vendor on Tanaan for a set price, then we'd have something to talk about.

Most of the "removed" elements were done during the Cataclysm. Maybe we need another cataclysm to shake things up and remove more necessary items from existing expansions. Until then, players should either farm the Medallions (which drop from rares in Tanaan), or grab them from the AH like I did. I bought 18 tokens and got exalted with every faction in 60 seconds. It takes nothing to farm gold in this game, so purchasing shouldn't even be an issue. Unless of course you can't be arsed to put the effort in to get the gold to get the medallions. I guess for the truly lazy folks, they could buy a Token to sell for gold and then get the rep which was reduced from Exalted to Revered.

In the meantime, I am playing the game in the way in which it was designed and have zero issues with either Pathfinder since BOTH are completed. If people spent half as much time in game playing as they do here "discussing", there wouldn't be a single player without Pathfinder.

Now, just so we are clear: Everything stated here by me was my personal opinion. While all of it can be proven, it is still only my opinion. If people want to fly on Draenor, they can get off their asses, and spend the 7 days needed to grind it out.

[Raiz]

I go back to Pandaria on a weekly basis. How is it a problem that you need to hit max level in a certain expansion to unlock flying?

How is it a problem that you can get the flying mount in the very beginning of the expansion ? WoD is the only expansion where my main doesn't have the flying mount unlocked because I quit after 1 or 2 months. I've already finished almost everything from this WoD questline (minus the end raid). I have absolutely no incentives to do this questline ever again because I didn't have fun before, and probably never will because this expansion is a big joke.

So once again, I ask you all, why does that bother you ? Because you farmed it ? Because you have an achievement that nobody has ? By all mean take it, I couldn't careless. I just want to finish that zone, and the faster I can go to legion, the happier I am.

[Otimus]

I haven't read the comments, but I doubt they're going to fix this ever. Why would they, when they can maybe gode a few others into paying for a character boost?

Those existing has pretty much assured they'll never really put too much work into making getting to the current content TOO easy for a non-booster.

[Lane]

With flight in Warlords of Draenor, you can level past that expansion in about 1-2 hours. All it demands is, you do your Garrison quest till it is just unlocked, and you get the treasure addon. Then you mount up, and you go hunting for treasure in about 1½-2½ zones. Done.

You can already do that without flying. You only need to be level 98 to do Broken Isles. It's better if you have rested EXP, but between heirlooms + Elixir of the Rapid Mind + Excess Potion of Accelerated Learning doing Gorgrond bonus objectives, the Monster Hunter quests, and any (convenient) treasures along the way makes it quick. I have Draenor flying and that's still how I level chars to 98, can't be arsed to hunt down treasures.

[Lochton]

You can already do that without flying. You only need to be level 98 to do Broken Isles. It's better if you have rested EXP, but between heirlooms + Elixir of the Rapid Mind + Excess Potion of Accelerated Learning doing Gorgrond bonus objectives, the Monster Hunter quests, and any (convenient) treasures along the way makes it quick. I have Draenor flying and that's still how I level chars to 98, can't be arsed to hunt down treasures.

Well, my record is 1½ zones of treasures + heirlooms + rested. Nothing more. About 1 hour, 90-100.

[Razorice]

How is it a problem that you can get the flying mount in the very beginning of the expansion ? WoD is the only expansion where my main doesn't have the flying mount unlocked because I quit after 1 or 2 months. I've already finished almost everything from this WoD questline (minus the end raid). I have absolutely no incentives to do this questline ever again because I didn't have fun before, and probably never will because this expansion is a big joke.

So once again, I ask you all, why does that bother you ? Because you farmed it ? Because you have an achievement that nobody has ? By all mean take it, I couldn't careless. I just want to finish that zone, and the faster I can go to legion, the happier I am.

Because farming for something awesome or convenient is part of an MMORPG experience?
Want good gear? Earn it.
Want cool pet/mount? Earn it.
Want some sort of shortcut? Earn it.

See where I'm going with it?

[Teri]

How is it a problem that you can get the flying mount in the very beginning of the expansion ? WoD is the only expansion where my main doesn't have the flying mount unlocked because I quit after 1 or 2 months. I've already finished almost everything from this WoD questline (minus the end raid). I have absolutely no incentives to do this questline ever again because I didn't have fun before, and probably never will because this expansion is a big joke.

So once again, I ask you all, why does that bother you ? Because you farmed it ? Because you have an achievement that nobody has ? By all mean take it, I couldn't careless. I just want to finish that zone, and the faster I can go to legion, the happier I am.

I didn't play WoD at all, and only did maybe 1 week of Tanaan dailies on a new Demon Hunter

DH have Draenor and Tanaan unlocked by default

And to speed things up even more (saving me over a week more) I bought some medallion of legion off the AH.

Getting flying in a 2 weeks or less for the rest of the account Permanently isn't too bad.

Basicly if you use a DH, it's a huge timesaver. And a future timesaver for any alts leveling through 90-98/100.

Alright I admit I had to do all WoD zones once, but I was leveling my paladin from 90-100 anyway when coming back into Legion.

Still probably is quicker to make a DH right away if any account has a 70+.

[-Joker-]

DH have Draenor and Tanaan unlocked by default

This is incorrect. I just made a DH this past weekend and still had to open Draenor for my Garrison.

[Deleted]

And why is it important that people who come to the game later take the same time for leveling alts as people who did that in the first weeks or months when the content was current?

WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO YOU? To me it sounds like you are a malevolent son of a b*** who does not want other people to catch up to him because of self esteem issues or whatever.

I want to have more time for content which does not require flying because it's not there. And I want to have more time to spend in this content, and not travelling to said content. And I want my friends who just joined the game - 1 year after Legion's release and 3 years after WoD release - or who probably return to the game after a break - to catch up to me more easily, and not to waste time in outdated content because some anal retentive freaks demand that they have to swallow the same amount of shit they did.

This is just incredible.

- - - Updated - - -

Because farming for something awesome or convenient is part of an MMORPG experience?
Want good gear? Earn it.
Want cool pet/mount? Earn it.
Want some sort of shortcut? Earn it.

See where I'm going with it?

We have been earning shortcuts with paying an amount of gold for flying per character each expansion. Just let people pay 5K per character if they don't want to do the whole achievement.

[Razorice]

We have been earning shortcuts with paying an amount of gold for flying per character each expansion. Just let people pay 5K per character if they don't want to do the whole achievement.

I'm not sying you should grind-out the achievement.
I'm saying make it available once a character hits level 100.
By grind I meant level 90-100, which you probably can't even call a grind.

[Teri]

This is incorrect. I just made a DH this past weekend and still had to open Draenor for my Garrison.

Well, tanaan at least was available right away, and really, what I mean, you steamroll the intro scenario at 100 anyway.

It's been months since I did it.

[dokilar]

I guess it's annoying for new players, but then again the experience is better when questing for the first time to do so by ground mount.

Maybe make it purchasable after hitting at least one character at 100 without using boost?

as someone who over the years cares more about the narrative and story of the game i can safely say, as someone who returned when i was able to buy WoD for $5, that the leveling and questing experience was not anything special. of course this is only my opinion but there wasnt much excuse to stick to the ground for the first 3/4s of the expansion except to delay people and make the world feel bigger.

perhaps i'm a masochist as i thought maybe the alliance side was better but it wasnt, i leveled an alliance toon and a horde toon through WoD questing and wasnt impressed with it to say the least. having it purchasable after hitting max level is what should be done to coincide with previous expansions. again just my .02

[Dvaldin]

Doesn't matter. WoD is old news. I can understand the ability to fly or not could potentially cause someone to stop playing before reaching Legion content. So sure, male it similar to obtain as Wrath or such. Or keep it as it is and give the leveler more of an experience and sense of accomplishment. It works fine either way as far as I'm concerned since you get a free boost.

[-Joker-]

Well, tanaan at least was available right away, and really, what I mean, you steamroll the intro scenario at 100 anyway.

It's been months since I did it.

While Tanaan is available, you still have to complete the step to unlocking your Daily base (Lion's Watch for me as Alliance). But yeah, at 100, my DH screamed through the starting content even without my first Artifact weapon. But, since I had flight unlocked, getting the garrison to lvl 3 took only just a few hours. Already had tons of gold, and purchased the Ogre caches from the AH to stockpile resources to build everything I needed.

[Teri]

While Tanaan is available, you still have to complete the step to unlocking your Daily base (Lion's Watch for me as Alliance). But yeah, at 100, my DH screamed through the starting content even without my first Artifact weapon. But, since I had flight unlocked, getting the garrison to lvl 3 took only just a few hours. Already had tons of gold, and purchased the Ogre caches from the AH to stockpile resources to build everything I needed.

Well, I did not have to do that when I did it 7.0.3, could flightpath to the tanaan base right away from the garrison and start the dailies, guess they changed some things.

[WhiteEagle888]

I say everything stays as is, and I keep playing a game I enjoy until I don't like it any more and then I unsub and walk away. I hate having to complete water worlds in Mario to progress, but I haven't yelled at Nintendo and asked them to remove the worlds. Part of putting on the big boy clothes is accepting how things change and moving with the changes, and not against them. If Blizz changes it later, great. If not, I already have WoD and Leg Pathfinders complete. It helps that I spend less time complaining here, and more time just getting the achieve in game.

Oh so you are one of those lemmings who would jump into a well if somebody told them to.
It's not enough to put your big boy pants on, you need to become a man to get ahead in life - to carve your path according to your will.
Needless to say even these words are wasted on you as you lack the concept of willpower so the best you can do is what you wanted to in the first place and just walk away. you have nothing more to say in this matter.

[Bigcountry11782]

Earn it like everyone else did.Simple as that.

[ThatsOurEric]

I think the option to buying a means of flying should be there. The content is obsolete at this point, it hurts no one to
have it.