Heroes are good - let's make statues of them

[Kaleredar]

They were heroes to their state, but traitors to the federal government.

And their states were traitors to the Union.

No need to cling to that past.



Also, people need to stop pretending as if these statues WEREN'T going to museums anyway. The "They're destroying history!" bit is dishonesty used to inflame people who otherwise probably wouldn't care.

[zorkuus]

It wouldn't be the first time a nation built a monument to 'enemy' generals due to how the conflict was engaged.

People did a lot of stupid shit in olden days. No reason we should follow their lead.

[Kaleredar]

"I can't see any good here, so fuck everyone else who can!"

The "good" they're seeing is tainted by all the bad things that individual stands for.

The "state's rights" and "southern pride" bits really pale in comparison to "well I also think we should own human beings as property based on the color of their skin, and I'm going to be a traitor to my nation to defend that notion."

[Livnthedream]

People did a lot of stupid shit in olden days. No reason we should follow their lead.

https://twitter.com/TheHat2/status/898416209749655553

You in a nutshell. Well done.

[zorkuus]

https://twitter.com/TheHat2/status/898416209749655553

You in a nutshell. Well done.

Lincoln was against slavery. Was there a point?

[Livnthedream]

The "good" they're seeing is tainted by all the bad things that individual stands for.

As you see it!

It is almost like different people have different views on this. How very imperialistic to force your views on others!

The "state's rights" and "southern pride" bits really pale in comparison to "well I also think we should own human beings as property based on the color of their skin, and I'm going to be a traitor to my nation to defend that notion."

It is almost like your view isn't the only view, much less, best view! Hard to fathom I know!

- - - Updated - - -

Lincoln was against slavery. Was there a point?

Yes, and it flew well above your head apparently.

[Video Games]

I don't think monuments to slavery belong in public. They should be moved to museums if they have historical value.

I don't mind either way because it doesn't really matter and history is cool.

[Archon14]

As you see it!

It is almost like different people have different views on this. How very imperialistic to force your views on others!

It doesn't matter who sees the sculpted person how, the act itself was vandalism and there should be a punishment for destroying public property/art/whatever.

[zorkuus]

Yes, and it flew well above your head apparently.

I'm sure it was somekind of a false equivalence.

[Charge me Doctor]

The "good" they're seeing is tainted by all the bad things that individual stands for.

The "state's rights" and "southern pride" bits really pale in comparison to "well I also think we should own human beings as property based on the color of their skin, and I'm going to be a traitor to my nation to defend that notion."

It's a statue after all and it has historical value. People just should look at modern Ukraine and see what they did to some Lenin monuments and not do that. If some people really want to take off these statues from the face of the planet and remove that very important part of history for our grandsons - they should follow all the bureaucracy that exists to make it as hard as it can be, because rewriting history and removing things off it that you don't like shouldn't be easy.

Even then IMO they all should be stored in a museum just how people jump to conclusions and change their opinions on very important things in a span of 100 years, lol.

[Rhamses]

"I can't see any good here, so fuck everyone else who can!"

Where's the good? Someone's poor ancestor getting manipulated into fighting a war to protect the elite's slavocracy? Those same ancestors later happily participating in (or being complicit in) a brutal system of American apartheid and domestic terrorism?

[Kaleredar]

As you see it!

It is almost like different people have different views on this. How very imperialistic to force your views on others!

Yeah and people view Hitler as a hero too. Doesn't need we mean a statue of every person

Society, by and large, has decided that the views and values of the old south, like slavery and white supremacy are no longer important. (It actually decided that quite a long time.) Therefore, we don't need statues of them.

It is almost like your view isn't the only view, much less, best view! Hard to fathom I know!

well, it aligns with what the majority of modern society views, which is the society we live in. Not a society of the South 50+ years ago.

[Sky High]

I'm sure it was somekind of a false equivalence.

not even sure if it was a false equivalence but a non-sequitur.

[Charge me Doctor]

I'm sure it was somekind of a false equivalence.

a statue was defaced - it's a crime.
In these two cases:
1) Defacing Lincoln statue - a crime
2) Defacing "confederate statue" (whatever it means) - not a crime.
It's literally an example of double standards if it really what happened

[Independent voter]

If the British take down the stature of Admiral Nelson in Trafalgar Square, I would be amazed.

Did General Robert E Lee own slaves and support slavery? Yes he did.

Do I fault him for siding with the Confederacy? No, he was a son of Virginia so his heart was there, the sides were lined up by were you were born like most wars.

Is he a hero? Yes to many white Southerners and even to some Northerners who appreciate what a good general he was.

There is a problem in the South where they've tried to spin the Civil war as a war against unfair taxation and everything except slavery but all those things were negotiable in Congress except slavery. The abolition of slavery was what the Civil War was about.

But it's fine if there are few statues of Gen Robert E Lee here and there.

[Kaleredar]

It's a statue after all and it has historical value. People just should look at modern Ukraine and see what they did to some Lenin monuments and not do that. If some people really want to take off these statues from the face of the planet and remove that very important part of history for our grandsons - they should follow all the bureaucracy that exists to make it as hard as it can be, because rewriting history and removing things off it that you don't like shouldn't be easy.

Even then IMO they all should be stored in a museum just how people jump to conclusions and change their opinions on very important things in a span of 100 years, lol.

Like I said, these statues ARE being put in museums.

People need to stop misrepresenting that fact.

[Charge me Doctor]

Like I said, these statues ARE being put in museums.

People need to stop misrepresenting that fact.

I really wish to believe you, but knowing how volatile people are they may or may not get there if things will keep heating up

[zorkuus]

It's a statue after all and it has historical value. People just should look at modern Ukraine and see what they did to some Lenin monuments and not do that. If some people really want to take off these statues from the face of the planet and remove that very important part of history for our grandsons - they should follow all the bureaucracy that exists to make it as hard as it can be, because rewriting history and removing things off it that you don't like shouldn't be easy.

Even then IMO they all should be stored in a museum just how people jump to conclusions and change their opinions on very important things in a span of 100 years, lol.

That's the thing. There's a very big difference between them displayed in public and held in museums. The latter is preservation of history, the former is honoring that which deserves no honoring.

a statue was defaced - it's a crime.
In these two cases:
1) Defacing Lincoln statue - a crime
2) Defacing "confederate statue" (whatever it means) - not a crime.
It's literally an example of double standards if it really what happened

No shit. Last time I checked the Lincoln statue wasn't erected to specifically honor something despicable. I don't give a rats ass if someone tears down something that was. But I'd prefer it would be done in a lawful way by the authorities rather than a mob.

[GreenJesus]

It is a monument of a general who was very successful in multiple battles where he was outnumbered. He is not being depicted whipping someone in the statue. Not to mention the Mexican war.

[Rhamses]

If the British take down the stature of Admiral Nelson in Trafalgar Square, I would be amazed.

Did General Robert E Lee own slaves and support slavery? Yes he did.

Do I fault him for siding with the Confederacy? No, he was a son of Virginia so his heart was there, the sides were lined up by were you were born like most wars.

Is he a hero? Yes to many white Southerners and even to some Northerners who appreciate what a good general he was.

There is a problem in the South where they've tried to spin the Civil war as a war against unfair taxation and everything except slavery but all those things were negotiable in Congress except slavery. The abolition of slavery was what the Civil War was about.

But it's fine if there are few statues of Gen Robert E Lee here and there.

It's not just the Civil War though, its the 100 years of American apartheid and domestic terrorism that followed it which was led by ex-Confederate leaders. There's a reason the KKK proudly utilize Confederate symbolism, their group is an extension of the Confederacy's foundation, which was white supremacy and the oppression of minorities.