Is saying "all right wingers are fascists" the same as "all muslims are terrorists"?

[JohnBrown1917]

Notice how the narrative is staring to change. The left had an advantage and went too far like they always do and blew it. Everyone forgot about the 200 Nazis spread across the nation and realize that the far left is much bigger and just as dangerous.

Nah, its not. If anything, liberals are now finally seeing how many nazis still exist.

[stomination]

Republicans have, for decades now, specifically targeted bigots and morons for the votes they can't outright steal. It's called the Southern Strategy.



Once again the right-wingers have the blood of innocent US citizens on their hands and they continue to cheer on their inbred turnip god-king. Some publicly, some privately, but you better believe they are all grinning ear to ear after succeeding in their destructive strategy.

RNC chairman Ken Mehlman said civil rights legislation pushed by President Lyndon Johnson, a Democrat, in the 1960s solidified black support for that party for decades and ''we Republicans did not effectively reach out."

''Some Republicans gave up on winning the African-American vote, looking the other way or trying to benefit politically from racial polarization," he added. ''I am here as Republican chairman to tell you we were wrong."

http://archive.boston.com/news/natio...chairman_says/

Boston Globe

At least quote him correctly


But the main thing we can gather is both parties use the Racial polarization to win votes.

[Espe]

the main thing we can gather is both parties use the Racial polarization to win votes.

Come on now champ, there's no need for false equivalencies here when even Republican leaders admit their core strategy is to court bigoted morons for the votes they can't outright steal through mass gerrymandering and voter suppression. Even you should be better than that.

[araine]

Wish the bolded part was much clearer. This is what the "left" was trying to tell the right wing for a long time, while being called PC and SJW. Besides, if you are talking about the latest threads after the Charlottesville, then you are wrong in your assumption that all right wing members are being called fascists. Members of KKK, other racial hate groups or those openly associate themselves with them are being called fascists and racists, which they are.

When it comes to fascism you are either against it and if you dont take a side you took the side of the fascists. we have folks out there that would gladly murder 11 million immigrants and that have the view that it is nothing since we did 6 million jews last time we can do 11 million no problem. these are NOT made up things these are the actual views of some of the KKK wizards.

Really if you arent against that 100% you are an enabler to the crime they are looking to do.

[Freighter]

When it comes to fascism you are either against it and if you dont take a side you took the side of the fascists. we have folks out there that would gladly murder 11 million immigrants and that have the view that it is nothing since we did 6 million jews last time we can do 11 million no problem. these are NOT made up things these are the actual views of some of the KKK wizards.

Really if you arent against that 100% you are an enabler to the crime they are looking to do.

What if you take the side that condemn all political violence and think they should be imprisoned if they want to use violence for political purposes?

[stomination]

When it comes to fascism you are either against it and if you dont take a side you took the side of the fascists. we have folks out there that would gladly murder 11 million immigrants and that have the view that it is nothing since we did 6 million jews last time we can do 11 million no problem. these are NOT made up things these are the actual views of some of the KKK wizards.

Really if you arent against that 100% you are an enabler to the crime they are looking to do.

You can be against the KKK and the current image of Antifa at the same time.

[Daethz]

To the Thread Title: Yes.

ANTIFA calls anyone who does not support LGBTQ, Socialism among other things, a Fascist.
ANTIFA in reality is the most fascist organization we have, they do their best to silence any speech with violence.

[Zecora]

You know what? I couldn't give a damn in the end of the day, you're just here looking for an argument over something so trivial in this pathetic nit-picking of yours, just because.

Interesting way of saying you can't defend your claims. Do you do this to preserve the victim complex you seem to be nursing?

[karumayu]

When it comes to fascism you are either against it and if you dont take a side you took the side of the fascists. we have folks out there that would gladly murder 11 million immigrants and that have the view that it is nothing since we did 6 million jews last time we can do 11 million no problem. these are NOT made up things these are the actual views of some of the KKK wizards.

Really if you arent against that 100% you are an enabler to the crime they are looking to do.

I think you misunderstood (Or I was not clear in my formulation) my post as we appear to say the same thing. The argument of this thread was that the left is genrealising conservatives as a whole with fascists, which they are not. I was merely saying that If you attended the Charlottesville rally (not the counter protest) then one can't say that they are just a conservative and they are actually racists and bigots.

[Endus]

Definition of fascism
1
often capitalized :* a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fascism

centralized government? severe economic regimentation? does that sound right wing to you? that sounds more like Socialism like having the word socialist in the National Socialist Workers Party

Yes. Those both sound plausibly right-wing.

There is nothing about right-wing political ideology that is in any respect opposed to centralized autocratic government. And regimentation, whether social or economic, is definitively right-wing; that is the core difference between left- and right-wing politics; right-wing seeks to establish/protect/allow for such regimentation, left-wing politics seeks to reduce/eliminate/mollify such. That's why things that even things out between social classes, things like social support networks and universal healthcare, are typically left-wing concepts; they reduce that regimentation.

This is a common meme I'm noticing among many right-wingers. They have a completely warped viewpoint of how the political landscape is actually laid out. For instance, looking at the Political Compass stuff, where you have both left-right and authoritarian-libertarian views, a lot of right-wingers think the general pattern goes from the "authoritarian left" quadrant, and then trends both downward toward "libertarian" and "right-wing" as you move to the right; that politics generally fits into that broad line, from the upper left to the lower right.

The reverse is generally true in the developed world;

Here's the UK political parties for 2017;


Here's a layout of possible candidates in the US 2016 election;


In both cases, those on the left tend to be more libertarian, and as you go right, they become more authoritarian. This isn't a trend without exceptions, but it's still a pretty clear trend, and yet somehow, a lot of right-wingers have the ideological facts on the authoritarian side of things completely backwards.

[unbound]

Is saying "all right wingers are fascists" the same as "all muslims are terrorists"? Both are wrong generalisations. However it seems to appear the first one is never frowned upon, and the latter one is. Especially on these forums.

How is that? Isn't is a tiny bit hypocritical to call all right wingers fascist because they generalise, while at the same time your doing the exact same thing? How is it different from the right wingers saying that all muslims are terrorists or all mexicans are criminals and rapists?

Yes, it is the same thing.

However, are people actually saying or strongly implying that "all right wingers are fascists"? I haven't observed that to be true, so the real problem with "all right wingers are fascists" is that it becomes a straw man argument, and thus subject to false equivalence.

[Daedius]

Interesting way of saying you can't defend your claims. Do you do this to preserve the victim complex you seem to be nursing?

Think whatever you want boyo.

[Zecora]

Think whatever you want boyo.

I'll take that as a "yes" then. Have a nice evening!

- - - Updated - - -

Here's the UK political parties for 2017;

This is off-topic, but has Corbyn's leadership managed to shift Labour to the Left by that much already?!

[Vyxn]

Yes. Those both sound plausibly right-wing.

There is nothing about right-wing political ideology that is in any respect opposed to centralized autocratic government. And regimentation, whether social or economic, is definitively right-wing; that is the core difference between left- and right-wing politics; right-wing seeks to establish/protect/allow for such regimentation, left-wing politics seeks to reduce/eliminate/mollify such. That's why things that even things out between social classes, things like social support networks and universal healthcare, are typically left-wing concepts; they reduce that regimentation.

This is a common meme I'm noticing among many right-wingers. They have a completely warped viewpoint of how the political landscape is actually laid out. For instance, looking at the Political Compass stuff, where you have both left-right and authoritarian-libertarian views, a lot of right-wingers think the general pattern goes from the "authoritarian left" quadrant, and then trends both downward toward "libertarian" and "right-wing" as you move to the right; that politics generally fits into that broad line, from the upper left to the lower right.

The reverse is generally true in the developed world;

Here's the UK political parties for 2017;


Here's a layout of possible candidates in the US 2016 election;


In both cases, those on the left tend to be more libertarian, and as you go right, they become more authoritarian. This isn't a trend without exceptions, but it's still a pretty clear trend, and yet somehow, a lot of right-wingers have the ideological facts on the authoritarian side of things completely backwards.

Yah Yah seen those nice colorful charts before so pretty to look at, but when you actually do the work do the reading understand how fascist regimes ran the economy how they implement many welfare programs and massive government run infrastructure projects there is no denying it they are socialist the were on the left.
only thing that you could possibly point at and say they were on the right was on some social issues
and we wont even mention Hitler quotes saying he was a socialist
what you have experienced is left academia trying to white wash history trying to propagandize everyone fascism isn't left put right but all it took was to do a little reading with an opened mind to realize hell no they are socialist with a nationalist twist

[Zecora]

Yah Yah seen those nice colorful charts before so pretty to look at, but when you actually do the work do the reading understand how fascist regimes ran the economy how they implement many welfare programs and massive government run infrastructure projects there is no denying it they are socialist the were on the left.
only thing that you could possibly point at and say they were on the right was on some social issues

You know...picking up a book every now and then, probably won't hurt you. You might even learn why "Has welfare + has large government = is left-wing" is complete bullshit.

and we wont even mention Hitler quotes saying he was a socialist

You mean this one? "Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxist Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not." -Adolf Hitler, 1930

what you have experienced is left academia trying to white wash history trying to propagandize everyone fascism isn't left put right but all it took was to do a little reading with an opened mind to realize hell no they are socialist with a nationalist twist

Take what you are doing, and claim that it's what "left academia" is doing. That's new...no, wait, it's not. It's the same old bullshit we keep seeing from right-wingers that can't handle that Hitler was on "their team". Hitler was YOUR asshole, just like Stalin was ours. Stop trying to pawn him over on us.

[kail]

Pretty much. You use generalizations to demonize or praise any group, you will look stupid.

[Blur4stuff]

One thing that makes this conversation more difficult is propaganda. Some people, especially seniors, just watch FOX news all day. Some younger white men base all of their opinions on what they read in places like /pol/. They continue supporting Trump even though he's repeatedly advocated for fascism, but don't seem to realize what they're doing.

[Endus]

Yah Yah seen those nice colorful charts before so pretty to look at, but when you actually do the work do the reading understand how fascist regimes ran the economy how they implement many welfare programs and massive government run infrastructure projects there is no denying it they are socialist the were on the left.

Obviously false. Fascism is definitively right-wing.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

"fascism is usually placed on the far-right within the traditional left–right spectrum."

0/1.

only thing that you could possibly point at and say they were on the right was on some social issues
and we wont even mention Hitler quotes saying he was a socialist

"Our adopted term 'Socialist' has nothing to do with Marxian Socialism. Marxism is anti-property; true Socialism is not"
"'National' and 'social' are two identical conceptions. It was only the Jew who succeeded, through falsifying the social idea and turning it into Marxism, not only in divorcing the social idea from the national, but in actually representing them as utterly contradictory. That aim he has in fact achieved."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/1...champagne.html

What you're doing, here, is ignoring that Hitler explicitly and deliberately conflated the concepts of "Nationalism" and "socialism", that he was directly opposed to Marxist and Communist thinking, and that he specifically stated that his "socialism" was completely different from all other forms.

In short; you listened to Nazi propaganda, and took it as truth, which is a silly-ass thing to do.

Hitler's "socialism" was nationalism, plain and simple. The Third Reich was more capitalist than socialist, economically speaking.

0/2.

You're literally trying to rewrite history, and all you've provided are shady allusions to Nazi propaganda pieces as if those were bastions of truth. No reputable historian agrees with you on this stuff.

And worse, it isn't even relevant, since it doesn't have a damned thing to do with the point I was making in the post you responded to, and wouldn't in any remote way function as a counter-argument to that point, even if you were right, which I'll repeat, you are not.

[Eldar45]

I think that most people have no idea what left wing and right wing mean anymore. And claiming that Right Wing means Authoritarian and Left Wing means Libertarian is ludicrous.

It was the Left that passed the NDAA, it was the Right that cried about it stepping on peoples rights. It is the Left that wants to take away gun rights, it is the left that wants to limit free speech, it is the left that wants to empower the Federal Government over the state governments.

[downnola]

In both cases, those on the left tend to be more libertarian, and as you go right, they become more authoritarian. This isn't a trend without exceptions, but it's still a pretty clear trend, and yet somehow, a lot of right-wingers have the ideological facts on the authoritarian side of things completely backwards.

This all depends on how accurate one thinks the Political Compass is. The Political Compass is a useful tool to map out the political landscape, but like every kind of map, it's by no means a completely accurate representation of the entire landscape. The questions that are asked in that quiz reduce complex issues to oversimplified statements that one is asked to pick a side on. Nuance is completely lost in that quiz, and it's designed that way to force people to choose an answer. However, a conservative in the New England region of the United States is going to have a different set of values than a Tory in Wales. The Political Compass is really bad at demonstrating this phenomenon, and one of the reason for this is the test itself is attempting to separate economics from politics and that's an extremely naive way to view politics.

As long as governments pass laws to influence economic outcomes, politics and economics will always be linked together. Economic systems don't just appear in vacuums. That's why an ideological map with progressives and democratic socialists on the lower end of the Authoritarian axis is a load of horse feathers. Bureaucratic economic policy requires a hierarchical structure to implement and that is precisely the kind of "regimentation" that you're claiming the left doesn't exhibit. American conservatives, by contrast, tend to oppose those policies, but not because they oppose hierarchies in general, more because they oppose top-down economic policy. And quite frankly, I don't think the political compass adequately maps that distinction at all.

That's not to say a test has to perfect to be useful, but if you're trying to make a broader point about what it means to be left or right, using a tool like the Political Compass is pretty flawed way to do it.