Already sick of Argus

[Deleted]

I'm not gonna tell you that you're wrong, because I can see your point of view, but I just find it interesting how differently we feel about Argus.
I wasn't sure if I was going to like it at all, I was afraid the zones would be boring and repetitive.. but I was so impressed upon arriving there. Krokuun and Antoran wastes are vastly different and have totally different feels to them, and for some reason all the legion props suddenly look nice in their supposed context. I hated them on broken shore, but I feel like they really compliment the environment on Argus. The sky, Azeroth spinning in the background and all the ships in the sky.. it feels so grand.

And I LOVE the terrain. It's so complex and thought out, it's a maze, yes, but that's what I love about it. Argus isn't just about running in there and completing shit, it's about finding your way around obstacles and exploring the world. It's not supposed to be a place you can just navigate at first go, It's supposed to grow on you over time, at least that's what I think.

[Coffeexbean]

Considering TBC is a much loved expansion by fucking millions that *introduced* flying and was loved as being some super immersive, hardcore game, thats funny.

Considering in Wrath you NEEDED flying to even ENTER two of the raids, thats still funny.

The problem is not FLYING and Flying did NOT ruin the game, Flying enhanced it dramatically, with a new verticality element that allowed us to travel to floating islands we could not otherwise reach without it.

Instead, we are plagued by a lack of imagination from devs to use flying in interesting ways, like high mountains or impossibly untraversable sea distances without it.

Those games were not loved for flying they did well because they were true mmo with grinds, a community, a sense of achievement. Flying is the worst features from those expansions and in tbc flying didn't break the expansion much because only rich people had flying

[Deleted]

Considering TBC is a much loved expansion by fucking millions that *introduced* flying and was loved as being some super immersive, hardcore game, thats funny.

I mean, you're not entirely wrong, but you've got to consider that SO many other factors were involved. TBC would have done well both with or without flying because it was at the height of world of warcraft and it had few competitors. It was immersive back then, but it isn't today. The Outlands zones compared to Broken isles and Argus is almost ironic. Wow needed to up their game to rival with other games, and removing flying puts more focus on paying attention and being present in the game rather than just glazing over. If you can fly you can just skip all obstacles and miss out on hidden treasures or rares and whatever, and you miss the beautiful environments that the blizzard team has spent an incredible amount of time on.

And in the end I think the main factor is size. Blizzard can't make zones that feel big from the air while still being incredibly detailed. In broken isles they used a lot of other methods to achieve a sense of size, and the zones feel so much more alive thanks to it.

[Deleted]

in tbc flying didn't break the expansion much because only rich people had flying

Rich people had epic flying, everyone had normal flying.

[Aggrophobic]

I'm not gonna tell you that you're wrong, because I can see your point of view, but I just find it interesting how differently we feel about Argus.
I wasn't sure if I was going to like it at all, I was afraid the zones would be boring and repetitive.. but I was so impressed upon arriving there. Krokuun and Antoran wastes are vastly different and have totally different feels to them, and for some reason all the legion props suddenly look nice in their supposed context. I hated them on broken shore, but I feel like they really compliment the environment on Argus. The sky, Azeroth spinning in the background and all the ships in the sky.. it feels so grand.

And I LOVE the terrain. It's so complex and thought out, it's a maze, yes, but that's what I love about it. Argus isn't just about running in there and completing shit, it's about finding your way around obstacles and exploring the world. It's not supposed to be a place you can just navigate at first go, It's supposed to grow on you over time, at least that's what I think.

Thing is, the game used to be an open world game and now it's not anymore. Not sure how you can love it but they really should make a new game for people that love mazes then and not ruin WoW with their bullshit.

[Deleted]

I get it now, if you haven't played during MoP (Timeless Island) or WoD (Tanaan Jungle) then you're probably gonna love Argus and praise it for being fresh and original.
I guess WoW has a lot of new players? Since i can't see why people would think this is any different or better than those other zones O_O

[Osiria]

Bad for you. I'm enjoying it very much.

[Deleted]

I HATE HATE HATE mazes. I don't find it challenging just annoying. I go to WoWHead and it tells me how to get where I need to go.

Well once again I think it's fascinating how differently we feel about Argus, because to me Argus has a great sense of danger and isolation. Whenever I'm out in the zones I feel surrounded by enemies and completely isolated, and the maze-like structure of the zones makes it feel like you're sneaking around and hiding, which makes more sense in my opinion than to just run across plains, totally visible, straight up to the enemy.

Also, you might want to consider nostalgia playing it's part here. I also look back fondly at events such as the one you described, but I doubt I'd actually enjoy it today. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's easy to have your judgement fucked by nostalgia. Although I don't completely disagree with you, I think the zones are a bit too crowded too, but in the end it's sorta a choice between smaller highly detailed zones or larger barren ones (and I don't mean that in a good way, I mean as in lack of NEEDED details such as rocks and vegetation), and to me the visual aspect is pretty damn important. Maybe that's where we disagree lol. I enjoy the mazelike structure because it allows me to take my time and I can appreciate the surroundings while I do it.

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Thing is, the game used to be an open world game and now it's not anymore. Not sure how you can love it but they really should make a new game for people that love mazes then and not ruin WoW with their bullshit.

It is very much still open world, I don't get why it wouldn't be? They're using verticality more so that they can create smaller detailed zones that still manage to feel big, that's all. The zones are much more interesting both visually and gameplay wise now, although I agree it's a hate or love thing that not everyone is going to like, bur saying it isn't open world or that it plainly sucks feels cheap to me.

[-Joker-]

Bad for you. I'm enjoying it very much.

I think most of us are.

[Deleted]

OP you have just unlocked like 1/3 of the argus content and already have a massive complaint about it. And yeah Im really sorry that you cant grind your way through content while watching netflix in windowed mode which is the only reason you could screw up walking through this terrain. Even the minimap is clear enough for the paths and they re so gauntlet like its impossible to get lost.

Hidden chests? Well sorry let them know next patch they should send them direct to your mailbox. Seriously let everything unlock and complain after. And yeah the theme is too green true. Rest of the world is colorful enough though and you don't have to be at Argus 24/7.

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Thank you for sharing that with us.

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The slow flying was so slow and annoying that everyone was willing to sell a kidney to get fast flying.

Yes because there is not a lot of content to do. We were promised the situation with Broken Shore would not repeat itself but here we are... people are farming for the 5000 demons achievement because nothing else seems worth doing. The timegate is immersion-breaking and masks the fact that there is actually very little content. I mean, suddenly the story just stops while we are supposed to be INVADING the very homeworld of the Burning Legion. What the hell? It also does not help that the hordes of mobs you are forced to fight through in order to reach your chosen destination do not drop anything of value at all. At least in TI we had coins and armor tokens that could drop from anything. It is just annoyance.

Also, teleporters are worthless. Even with the world quest right next door physically you have a 5+ minute circuitous path through mobs to actually get there. Get too far out from the teleportals and it's faster to Hearth to Dalaran or the Vindicaar and start over than to ride back. I mean, how ridiculous is that? It is faster to get to another planet and then back....

Also, what is the reason the portal to the Vindicaar brings us to the other side of the ship? It is the only portal that does not bring us back to the portal point. Hint: time played is the new metric.

Also, about the terrain. f you explore the new zones you'll see they're really small, nearly half the size the world map makes them appear. There's a lot of dead space. It's like W3's "open world". Before the cult of Geraldt gets thier pirtchforks, I really like W3 but the map was big yet a lot of dead space and areas skipped with fast travel and loading screens.

Being grounded make the zones look much bigger than they actually are, added into how everything you need to get to you have to go the round about way at times almost circles. The terrain being an annoyance is to mask the fact that they just rushed the zones, they are unpolished and they want to keep you busy finding your way so you do not notice how empty it really is.

Without the terrain barriers I could probably traverse it in a VERY short time. They wanted to create all this hype by "OMG 3 ZONES IN ONE PATCH" whereas if you add up all the dead space, the fact that it has a 2D backdrop and is clearly not meant for flying and the lack of detail, they are altogether smaller than Dragonblight

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I think most of us are.

I mean, WoW forums have always had a lot of haters but this time **** really has hit the fan. I have never seen so much antipathy towards the content just a few days after the patch.

And good patches at least had their honeymoon phase. This one does not. It was not so bad even with the Broken Shore. Only 6.1 can be compared.

[KoolKidKaos]

Honestly, I just want my legendaries for both of the specs I play. They ruined nether portal farming, so now I'm stuck with the old way sigh. No flying sucks, I hate the first 2 areas of Argus, I pray I enjoy the third a lot more. So far, I'm not enjoying Argus, and I'm not even hype for the last raid.

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Guys if you are feeling this way quit the game. Can we stop complaining for no reason here? No one here cares about your emotions on this topic and blizzard isn't listening. If it's serious enough to write about then stop playing. If it's not, then grow up and keep your blog to yourself.

You seem to care, so strongly, you felt the need to respond to the OP lol. The area is shit, just because you have an opinion doesn't mean others can't have a different one. Shut up and have a seat

[Aggrophobic]

Well once again I think it's fascinating how differently we feel about Argus, because to me Argus has a great sense of danger and isolation. Whenever I'm out in the zones I feel surrounded by enemies and completely isolated, and the maze-like structure of the zones makes it feel like you're sneaking around and hiding, which makes more sense in my opinion than to just run across plains, totally visible, straight up to the enemy.

Also, you might want to consider nostalgia playing it's part here. I also look back fondly at events such as the one you described, but I doubt I'd actually enjoy it today. I'm not saying you're wrong, but it's easy to have your judgement fucked by nostalgia. Although I don't completely disagree with you, I think the zones are a bit too crowded too, but in the end it's sorta a choice between smaller highly detailed zones or larger barren ones (and I don't mean that in a good way, I mean as in lack of NEEDED details such as rocks and vegetation), and to me the visual aspect is pretty damn important. Maybe that's where we disagree lol. I enjoy the mazelike structure because it allows me to take my time and I can appreciate the surroundings while I do it.

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It is very much still open world, I don't get why it wouldn't be? They're using verticality more so that they can create smaller detailed zones that still manage to feel big, that's all. The zones are much more interesting both visually and gameplay wise now, although I agree it's a hate or love thing that not everyone is going to like, bur saying it isn't open world or that it plainly sucks feels cheap to me.

How does Argus feel big though? It's one long corridor? Oh, and thats not an open design at all, thats more like a platformer. Horrible in ever way.
The only way to get some actual "verticality" to Argus is to add flying back in.

[-Joker-]

I mean, WoW forums have always had a lot of haters but this time **** really has hit the fan. I have never seen so much antipathy towards the content just a few days after the patch.

And good patches at least had their honeymoon phase. This one does not. It was not so bad even with the Broken Shore. Only 6.1 can be compared.

6.1 gave us:

- New Character Models: Blood Elf
- Twitter Integration
- New Heirloom Collections Tab
- New Garrison Visitors
- Summon a Raid or World Boss
- New Garrison Music Box
- New Garrison Vendor
- New Follower Trait: Treasure Hunter
- Garrison Followers may now be upgraded to item level 675.
- Follower Mission UI Improvements
- Garrison Work Order Changes
- Cosmetic Transformations and Toy Effects
- Legendary Ring Quest Line


Now let's look at 7.3:

- Argus: Comes with 3 new Zones, unlike WoD Tanaan that was 1 zone.
- New Invasion Points
- New Dungeon: Seat of the Triumvirate
- Argus World quests
- New Artifact customization
- AK unlocked
- Dungeon loot iLvLs increased 20 points
- Cata battle pets added to dungeons
- New profession upgrades on Argus for Mining/Herbalism, Skinning, and Tailoring
- Artifact Fishing Pole
- Class Hall research costs cut in half
- New App made for WQ on Argus
- Changes to PvP


Now, comparing all of that to Patch 6.2 when we got SELFIES, I would say 7.3 is hardly a disappointment. A new world, with 3 new zones, and tons of stuff to see. Compared to Timeless Isle, this is a dream come true!

[mistahwilshire]

Best argument you have? No wonder player numbers are dwindling.

On-topic, yeah me too. Hate the aesthetic. Hate the terrain. Boring quests. Such a disappointment.

So unsub. I'm not trying to argue for anything. You're just a cunt and the game is better without you.

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I get it now, if you haven't played during MoP (Timeless Island) or WoD (Tanaan Jungle) then you're probably gonna love Argus and praise it for being fresh and original.
I guess WoW has a lot of new players? Since i can't see why people would think this is any different or better than those other zones O_O

Nothing has been any different in this game since it fucking came out. Kill stuff, get loot, replace when a new patch comes out. The method of delivery is completely irrelevant. If you're bored of the entire core of what an MMO is, then unsub and fuck off.

[Deleted]

I agree with 99.9% of what you ranted about. It is nothing short of devastating to FINALLY go through the twists, turns, chasms and corners and climb up to FINALLY FINALLY get to a chest, and have it despawn in the middle of looting it. "You cannot loot this at this time" It makes me just want to log off and walk away and punch a kitten in the face. It's one thing to take away flying, but it's another thing to make the landscape so damn unbearable and frustrating to navigate that you just would rather go play something else than deal with it, and I'm a freakin DRUID! Mounting up for me is instant and i STILL can't stand this landscape. Removing flying was a hardcore mistake. 7.2 - "Here guys, enjoy using this flying mount as you experience endgame content!" 7.3 - "PSYCH! hahaha F Ya'll! Run around for a half hour trying to get to a chest that despawns.. chests that REQUIRE you to have the mats in it to advance quests we make you do!"

Green and charcoal grey. Green and charcoal grey. Oh look! a Petrified forest! it's........green and charcoal grey.

Oh cool, a chest over across that chasm....Oh, damn there is a split with *drumroll* GREEN lava below me I can't cross...I guess I'll run around for a half hour trying to get to it.......AAAAAND it despawned.

Is this fun??

Should be new battle pets to be had though...

..I ranted about these zones weeks ago, now i just feel numb...

[Micronetic]

Compared to Timeless Isle, this is a dream come true!

I had more fun on the Timeless Isle than on Argus, maybe it will change with the 3rd part open.

[Deleted]

How does Argus feel big though? It's one long corridor? Oh, and thats not an open design at all, thats more like a platformer. Horrible in ever way.
The only way to get some actual "verticality" to Argus is to add flying back in.

To me it feels huge because you have these looming structures and mountains all around you and the world has no clear borders. Because of the environment they've placed the zones in there's this sense of them going on forever, unlike broken shore for instance, which has very defined borders. And it's packed with caves, areas on different levels both above and under each other. Everything is stacked, practically making the zones twice as big as they would have been if everything was flat. And I don't think flying adds verticality, it does the opposite. With flying everything is flattened. If you go up into the air (or look at the zones from the vindicaar) you can easily see that the height differences in the zones aren't that huge, it just feels like it on the ground.

So to summarize, I think the zones feel big because they're detailed, and there's no way to see all areas or details in just one run through. They have more longevity, and to me that makes them feel endless in a way. There's always more to discover.

[Aggrophobic]

6.1 gave us:

- New Character Models: Blood Elf
- Twitter Integration
- New Heirloom Collections Tab
- New Garrison Visitors
- Summon a Raid or World Boss
- New Garrison Music Box
- New Garrison Vendor
- New Follower Trait: Treasure Hunter
- Garrison Followers may now be upgraded to item level 675.
- Follower Mission UI Improvements
- Garrison Work Order Changes
- Cosmetic Transformations and Toy Effects
- Legendary Ring Quest Line


Now let's look at 7.3:

- Argus: Comes with 3 new Zones, unlike WoD Tanaan that was 1 zone.
- New Invasion Points
- New Dungeon: Seat of the Triumvirate
- Argus World quests
- New Artifact customization
- AK unlocked
- Dungeon loot iLvLs increased 20 points
- Cata battle pets added to dungeons
- New profession upgrades on Argus for Mining/Herbalism, Skinning, and Tailoring
- Artifact Fishing Pole
- Class Hall research costs cut in half
- New App made for WQ on Argus
- Changes to PvP


Now, comparing all of that to Patch 6.2 when we got SELFIES, I would say 7.3 is hardly a disappointment. A new world, with 3 new zones, and tons of stuff to see. Compared to Timeless Isle, this is a dream come true!

The amount of content means very little if people don't like the content though.

[Aggrophobic]

To me it feels huge because you have these looming structures and mountains all around you and the world has no clear borders. Because of the environment they've placed the zones in there's this sense of them going on forever, unlike broken shore for instance, which has very defined borders. And it's packed with caves, areas on different levels both above and under each other. Everything is stacked, practically making the zones twice as big as they would have been if everything was flat. And I don't think flying adds verticality, it does the opposite. With flying everything is flattened. If you go up into the air (or look at the zones from the vindicaar) you can easily see that the height differences in the zones aren't that huge, it just feels like it on the ground.

So to summarize, I think the zones feel big because they're detailed, and there's no way to see all areas or details in just one run through. They have more longevity, and to me that makes them feel endless in a way. There's always more to discover.

Always more? It took less than an hour to do every quest...

[scart35]

Always more? It took less than an hour to do every quest...

Exactly, they only feel big because of more verticality but they're smaller than any other zone... when combined.Maps look big but only 1/3 of whole map is explorable. All rares can be killed in half an hour which means moving around whole Krokuun and Antoran. Hopefully, next week will bring something different than farming rares on alts.