If Jaina's A Hero in The Next Xpac, Should We Forgive Her?

[Aeula]

If she ends up a 'hero' and horde are forced to help her I'll just quit.

Keep her on the Alliance if you won't kill her off. The horde wants nothing to do with her unless it's cutting her head off and the Alliance doesn't want one or their so-called 'heroes' going neutral.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

from an alliance stand point she has nothing to say sorry for, from a horde stand point shes always been the enemy why would she say sorry.

[Shampro]

If she is ''the Khadgar'' of the expansion I'll probably skip it- meaning, that even Horde players follow her around. Nope not doing it, if she wants to continue being an Alliance character that's perfectly fine. Let me work with the fking Warchief or any other leader for that matter.

[Aeula]

So... are we actually forgetting about the character development she got in war crimes and instead go with the 2 lines at the start of legion?..... hard to discuss when there are 2 versions of her that could be canon.

Some parts of the books are non-canon according to Metzen. I think that part of War Crimes is non-canon.

[cparle87]

Depends which version of her is canon, war crimes where she dealt with her issues with the horde or the one where she still wants to destroy the horde.

It will probably be a 3rd option where they retcon her into something worse.

Um, you DO realize that War Crimes happened BEFORE the Broken Shore? She had issues with the Horde, set them aside in the book, and then, in her mind, the Horde betrayed them again at the Broken Shore. There's no "version" or "retcon" or whatever.

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Some parts of the books are non-canon according to Metzen. I think that part of War Crimes is non-canon.

Source? And read what I said to Korth, it's relevant.

Theramore and MOP, she hated the Horde and wanted revenge.
Then came War Crimes where she saw where she was going and forgave them.
Then came Broken Shore where, to the Alliance, the Horde abandoned them to die.

[Aeula]

Um, you DO realize that War Crimes happened BEFORE the Broken Shore? She had issues with the Horde, set them aside in the book, and then, in her mind, the Horde betrayed them again at the Broken Shore. There's no "version" or "retcon" or whatever.

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Source? And read what I said to Korth, it's relevant.

Theramore and MOP, she hated the Horde and wanted revenge.
Then came War Crimes where she saw where she was going and forgave them.
Then came Broken Shore where, to the Alliance, the Horde abandoned them to die.

Ya, the novels are pretty much considered canon, um, the funny thing is some things are less canon, we shoot for canon...typically the characters in novels are canon..." -Chris Metzen

Canon or not that part of her plot is irrelevant anyway.

[Stelio Kontos]

There's nothing to be forgiven for, save maybe for sitting out while fighting the Legion. certainly not for anything she did to the Horde at a time when the Horde were doing far worse.

[derpkitteh]

her actions should be noted, but blood elves should never trust humans again. third time humans stabbed them in the back.

[eillas]

Garrosh was fighting in a war, he didn't murder anyone. Jaina literally murdered sunreavers who were innocent in back in MoP - Jaina is just as bad as Garrosh, (plus Jaina tried to destroy Orgimmar, so she's guilty of attempted mass murder as well)

I like how you try to whitewash garrosh and make jaina into what he was.

[Donald Hellscream]

What is there to forgive? She was under the impression that the Sunreavers had betrayed the Kirin tor and as such ordered the expulsion of the Sunreavers.

[Nnyco]

im baffled that she just ran away like a kid despite legion invading azzeroth, who needs a planet to live on when you can hate bloodelves

[cparle87]

Ya, the novels are pretty much considered canon, um, the funny thing is some things are less canon, we shoot for canon...typically the characters in novels are canon..." -Chris Metzen

Canon or not that part of her plot is irrelevant anyway.

So if it's canon she was angry, got over it, was betrayed again, and is now angry again.
If it's not canon she's been angry the entire time, and is therefore consistent.
Still not seeing a discrepency or retcon.

[derpkitteh]

I'd argue that humans as a whole have not really betrayed humans, you have garithos who betrayed, the council that didn't help them against the scourge and now Jaina, I like to think that in a game that didn't need an equal amount of races, blood elves would have never joined the Horde, it still is weird for them to be part of it, they are a much better fit in the Alliance. As we find out, Lor'Themar was in peace talks with Varian, even if it was because they were under Garrosh, let's face it the Horde isn't the place for any real civilised race.

the horde is fine with elves.

orcs can be quite civilized, it's just they're a warrior culture. look at saurfang, he speaks more fancily than most of the elves do in game "that which does quell the recalcitrant".

tauren and trolls are the only real primitives in the horde.

[gcsmith]

"Massacred scared elves..." nope she imprisoned elves, and killed those who resisted arrest, something she was fair to do given how she had literally no idea which sunreavers she could trust, especially since the leader of the Sunreavers knew exactly what had happened and made no effort to inform the council that Garrosh had obtained a genocide device and would slaughter innocents with it.

She's done no crimes, at best she was overhanded in what she did, but given how the Sunreavers aided a genocidal maniac in getting a WMD... Then theres the fact she's not wrong about the horde, how many times do they have to abandon/betray those they owe debts to before people get a lesson.

Still will never forgive Thrall for refusing to help jaina despite Jaina helping him kill her own dad to help him build a city.

[Kallisto]

Let's see.

Firstly Jaina instigated the war with the horde by either ordering or turning a blind eye to Theramore troops attacking Barrens and Durotar before Garrosh attacked Ashenvale.
Used Theramore as a base for the alliance in Kalimdor.
Had Kirin tor break neutrality by somehow stating to be neutral you must side with alliance (AKA the complete opposite of Neutrality)
While trying to claim to be pro peace and neutrality. So she's a hypocrite right there.

Then she allows the alliance free reign in Dalaran up to the point at first of not kicking out Sunreavers. (Neutrality broke)
Sides with the night elves over the divine bell incident (Neutrality broke)
Went ballistic on Aethas and blamed all of Sunreavers which everyone knows was the actions of just 1. (Now we have a warcrime of collective punishment.)
Allowed Vereesa to do what she wanted with blood elves. (As leader of kirin'tor she's responsible for Vereesa's ethnic cleans and attempted Genocide)
All the while only Horde leader that was ok with Theramore was Garrosh while the others were against it.

Then she saw the horde fight against the sole person responsible for the obliteration. Already said peace would be fine if Garrosh was gone. Then tells Varian to basically restard the war in Garrosh's throne room.

Supposedly gets over her hate in warcrimes. Then when every logical answer to why did the horde leave Broken shore was "There's no way they could stay, they needed this win as much as the alliance." she goes and acts as if the horde punched her in the face over and over while laughing and cooperating with the Legion. While she was there and has the ability to mass teleport grand armies to other continents. Why didn't she save Varian and the others.

So no as a horde player there should not be "oh I am just going to follow you as a hero npc." it should be "Wait what, I did nothing to you and you tried to exterminate my kind. Why should I even contemplate not ripping your head off with a spike and putting it on the walls of Silvermoon?"

[Lorgar Aurelian]

There's nothing to be forgiven for, save maybe for sitting out while fighting the Legion. certainly not for anything she did to the Horde at a time when the Horde were doing far worse.

its more then likely shes fighting the legion some where else the legion are pretty much every where even if we don't see it in game.

[Stelio Kontos]

its more then likely shes fighting the legion some where else the legion are pretty much every where even if we don't see it in game.

Probably, or something involving Kul Tiras and Old Gods-type stuff.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Garrosh was fighting in a war, he didn't murder anyone. Jaina literally murdered sunreavers who were innocent in back in MoP - Jaina is just as bad as Garrosh, (plus Jaina tried to destroy Orgimmar, so she's guilty of attempted mass murder as well)

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I'd argue that humans as a whole have not really betrayed humans, you have garithos who betrayed, the council that didn't help them against the scourge and now Jaina, I like to think that in a game that didn't need an equal amount of races, blood elves would have never joined the Horde, it still is weird for them to be part of it, they are a much better fit in the Alliance. As we find out, Lor'Themar was in peace talks with Varian, even if it was because they were under Garrosh, let's face it the Horde isn't the place for any real civilised race.

you do know the sunreavers are part of the horde right? the people she was at war with?

[slime]

I will only forgive her if she marries a tauren or a forsaken.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Probably, or something involving Kul Tiras and Old Gods-type stuff.

well if she did go to kul tiras id bet shes defending it from the legion at the moment.