The Middle Road Solution to Immigration

[nanook12]

The right is increasingly pursuing a heavy deportation pro-nationalist agenda, and the left wants open borders. However, there is a middle ground which I believe will solve current and future immigration issues.

First the problems:

1.) Immigrants, especially the undocumented, compete for jobs and lower the wages for Americas poorest. They flat out do. I will not argue this point with anyone. Go read the plethora of studies and evidence about these fact from Google scholar. This is the main problem and why immigration must be controlled.

2.) Undocumented immigrants do contribute to the social security fund which they will never see themselves; however, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that draw from social programs (such as food stamps and welfare) is significantly higher than average Americans. Some say that "it is impossible for illegals to draw from social programs because they are not citizens." Well my response is that they have figured out ways around that obstacle. One of the popular ways is to have a lot of children. If two undocumented immigrants pair up and have children together on U.S. soil, then (due to the 14th amendment of the constitution) their children are full American citizens and able to take advantage of all the benefits. This fits with studies showing that undocumented immigrants have a higher birthrate than average Americans. In short, undocumented immigrants have more children in order to exploit the 14th amendment and take advantage of social programs otherwise they would not be able to survive on their low wage jobs alone. Not only does this put the stress of higher taxation on native Americans in order to support the increased load of undocumented immigrant that are dependent on social programs, but their children need school lunches, medical care, college grants, and they overload classrooms in k-12 and universities. This is why I disagree with the argument of "immigrants are only a boon to our tax system" because at the least they they draw out just as much as they put back in which makes it a stalemate.

4.) Over immigration and the undocumented create more inequality. The only organization that benefit from undocumented immigration are corporations and super wealthy individuals. This is happening at a time when America already has a bad income inequality problem to due a corrupt system favoring corporations and the wealthy. Senior economist Dr George Borjas has calculated that immigration causes a transfer of $500 billion annually from the poor and middle class to the rich and corporations. Nearly 3% of the U.S. GDP every single year.

5.) Immigrants do boost our GDP. If all undocumented and immigrants on work visas were immediately deported, America would lose a sizable chunk of GDP initially and continue to lose GDP until Americans procreated enough to fill that gap which would take many years. This goes to the side of immigrants. If they were all immediately deported, then America would likely no longer be the biggest GDP in the world which is the thing that maintains our spot as a global super power.


The solution:

1.) Grant amnesty to those that are already here because we simply cannot afford to deport them and drastically cut our GDP.

2.) After amnesty is granted, then border security and legislation to stem the tide of immigration are both massively increased. Our country simply cannot take in the entire world population. Maybe it can from a sheer size point of view, but it cannot support everyone from a jobs and living standards perspective. Immigration must me limited. Building the border wall and militarizing it with patrols is one method, but drastically increasing fines to anyone who hires undocumented labor, and rewriting the 14th amendment to include that, "only the children of legal citizens are assured the right that their offspring is also a full citizen." Further immigration to the U.S. would be based on a merit system whom gets in based on our current countries needs, their credentials (doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientist, etc), and of course an evaluation of their criminal record. In a sense, smart immigration based on our countries current needs. Much like many other nations already implement.

3.) This is the most humane way to handle things for both sides. Many under the DACA have never known another country, and I can't help to think that deporting them is pretty cruel. Poor native American citizens would get what they want because immigration and their high birthrates would slow down significantly, and plentiful jobs and growing wages would begin to sprout in time.

This is the middle of the road immigration solution for both left and right.

[Independent voter]

We already granted illegal immigrants amnesty once like back in the 1980's. Does it look like it worked?

[zEmini]

Middle solution is the only solution.

The left wants free open boarders for everyone and their moms with no accountability.

The right wants to imprison them or boot them ALL.

[Seranthor]

This is the middle of the road immigration solution for both left and right.

Clearly you haven't done your due diligence on this before you decided to spew.

Amnesty was granted in the 80s on the condition that the border would be secured, etc would happen... Turns out that the GOP got screwed... and here we are 30 years later trying to sing the same song to the GOP 'give us this, and we'll do that' and the GOP isn't buying the lie this time.

[tehdef]

1.) Immigrants, especially the undocumented, compete for jobs and lower the wages for Americas poorest. .

I'm a self labeled progressive/socialist.

But I find this funny. Okay, fine. You compete for the worst paying jobs with illegals. Now, you get to have those shitty paying jobs, so I guess at least you're getting paid? But now you hate yourself because that job sucks, and it drains your soul, underpays you, and your QoL is still shit and are likely depressed.

We definitely are running into an improvement here.

[Sormine]

The left wants free open boarders for everyone and their moms with no accountability.

*Citation needed*

[Milchshake]

Clearly you haven't done your due diligence on this before you decided to spew.

Amnesty was granted in the 80s on the condition that the border would be secured, etc would happen... Turns out that the GOP got screwed... and here we are 30 years later trying to sing the same song to the GOP 'give us this, and we'll do that' and the GOP isn't buying the lie this time.

Ignoring the 2 times the GOP had complete control of the government since then... they did squat to secure the border. Because the GOP donor class and its leaders are still OK with an open border.

The GOP and Libertarian elites are quite pleased with your lack of due diligence.... and your votes!

[Vynny]

I'm a self labeled progressive/socialist.

But I find this funny. Okay, fine. You compete for the worst paying jobs with illegals. Now, you get to have those shitty paying jobs, so I guess at least you're getting paid? But now you hate yourself because that job sucks, and it drains your soul, underpays you, and your QoL is still shit and are likely depressed.

We definitely are running into an improvement here.

I'll make this clear for you since you seem to live a privileged life where being unemployed didn't leave you penniless and destitute. Having a shitty soul crushing job that puts a roof over you and your family's head and food in your stomachs is much better than being homeless or seeing your family be made to suffer without that income. Also, less competition for those shitty jobs translates into better bargaining power thus leading to better wages and better working conditions. When Trump first started cracking down on illegal immigration California farming wages sky rocketed to $14 or $15 an hour and still showed signs of going up because now they couldn't rely on criminally underpaid illegal immigrants who would take most of that money back to mexico after the harvest season to live off of until the next harvest season.

As an added side benefit, selfish bourgeoisie socialists have to pay more for luxury harvest products like wine which have been much cheaper due to the rampant use of illegal immigrant laborers at the expense of the working class.

[Kallisto]

The right is increasingly pursuing a heavy deportation pro-nationalist agenda, and the left wants open borders. However, there is a middle ground which I believe will solve current and future immigration issues.

First the problems:

1.) Immigrants, especially the undocumented, compete for jobs and lower the wages for Americas poorest. They flat out do. I will not argue this point with anyone. Go read the plethora of studies and evidence about these fact from Google scholar. This is the main problem and why immigration must be controlled.

Or people just become more employable instead of lazy fucks who want to live in 1950s economy with no education and use of shitty resources. Instead of educating themselves into the 21st century. That and let's just dump the nationalist bullshit that falling out of a vagina within certain lines of a map makes you superior and more deserving of work.

2.) Undocumented immigrants do contribute to the social security fund which they will never see themselves; however, the percentage of undocumented immigrants that draw from social programs (such as food stamps and welfare) is significantly higher than average Americans. Some say that "it is impossible for illegals to draw from social programs because they are not citizens." Well my response is that they have figured out ways around that obstacle. One of the popular ways is to have a lot of children. If two undocumented immigrants pair up and have children together on U.S. soil, then (due to the 14th amendment of the constitution) their children are full American citizens and able to take advantage of all the benefits. This fits with studies showing that undocumented immigrants have a higher birthrate than average Americans. In short, undocumented immigrants have more children in order to exploit the 14th amendment and take advantage of social programs otherwise they would not be able to survive on their low wage jobs alone. Not only does this put the stress of higher taxation on native Americans in order to support the increased load of undocumented immigrant that are dependent on social programs, but their children need school lunches, medical care, college grants, and they overload classrooms in k-12 and universities. This is why I disagree with the argument of "immigrants are only a boon to our tax system" because at the least they they draw out just as much as they put back in which makes it a stalemate.

And the peddling of far right bullshit continues here. When most studies disagree with you and yes two illegals can't draw from social programs because to do so would get them found out.

4.) Over immigration and the undocumented create more inequality. The only organization that benefit from undocumented immigration are corporations and super wealthy individuals. This is happening at a time when America already has a bad income inequality problem to due a corrupt system favoring corporations and the wealthy. Senior economist Dr George Borjas has calculated that immigration causes a transfer of $500 billion annually from the poor and middle class to the rich and corporations. Nearly 3% of the U.S. GDP every single year.

Again immigration isn't a problem. It's idiots that think they should be holding 1950s jobs with no education and trying to make a 21st century living out of it. The issue has been that people just will not educate themselves and will at the same time vote for people who gives vague promises of "Build the wall!"... "Bringing back Jobs..." and all that crap. Again solution is education and stop living in dream world.

5.) Immigrants do boost our GDP. If all undocumented and immigrants on work visas were immediately deported, America would lose a sizable chunk of GDP initially and continue to lose GDP until Americans procreated enough to fill that gap which would take many years. This goes to the side of immigrants. If they were all immediately deported, then America would likely no longer be the biggest GDP in the world which is the thing that maintains our spot as a global super power.

America wouldn't lose Super power status. It might hurt for a bit but it would recover, but it would be inhumane to do and life > money. The only thing that will stop the US being a super power is if it just stopped caring to be one and dropped all spending. Even then it would be only a switch flick from being one again. That or states fractured up and becoming own nations.

The solution:

1.) Grant amnesty to those that are already here because we simply cannot afford to deport them and drastically cut our GDP.

Good start

2.) After amnesty is granted, then border security and legislation to stem the tide of immigration are both massively increased. Our country simply cannot take in the entire world population. Maybe it can from a sheer size point of view, but it cannot support everyone from a jobs and living standards perspective. Immigration must me limited. Building the border wall and militarizing it with patrols is one method, but drastically increasing fines to anyone who hires undocumented labor, and rewriting the 14th amendment to include that, "only the children of legal citizens are assured the right that their offspring is also a full citizen." Further immigration to the U.S. would be based on a merit system whom gets in based on our current countries needs, their credentials (doctors, lawyers, engineers, scientist, etc), and of course an evaluation of their criminal record. In a sense, smart immigration based on our countries current needs. Much like many other nations already implement.

Actually the US can feed, work and house the entire world. It produces just that much. Also the ones you want to have come in are those that are least in trouble for staying where they are. Those that are illegal are likely doing so cause it's Move and have a life, or stay and die before you're 30 in poverty. That's the fact of the matter. Human life (even a single one) is worth more than an artificial line on a map.

3.) This is the most humane way to handle things for both sides. Many under the DACA have never known another country, and I can't help to think that deporting them is pretty cruel. Poor native American citizens would get what they want because immigration and their high birthrates would slow down significantly, and plentiful jobs and growing wages would begin to sprout in time.

This is the middle of the road immigration solution for both left and right.

Nope not humane at all.

[Sunseeker]

This is some grade a garbage right here folks.

[purebalance]

Middle solution is the only solution.

The left wants free open boarders for everyone and their moms with no accountability.

The right wants to imprison them or boot them ALL.

We should send the people who think that illegal immigrants should just be granted amnesty to another country and stripped of American citizenship and have them wait through the process to get into this country and then see what a slap in the face it is to be sympathetic to illegal immigrants. I know many people who came here legally and it is pretty much spitting in their eye to allow someone to come from South America and claim they had nowhere else to go and come here illegally. Bullshit.

[purebalance]

Look at the comments from any Democratic politician on immigration. Has a single one in the past 5 years said anything about removing people who illegally entered the country? Or is it some nonsense about "human rights" and being "decent", or just flat out accusing people of being racist. You have many major US Cities actively protecting illegals with criminal records from being turned over to ICE to be deported. Again, this really isn't up for debate.

This image really captures it all:

I mean we have a SCJ on the bench that Obama put up that has direct ties to La Raza.

It has nothing to do with the nonsense being spewed by the left about being human. If it were about being human you'd deport them because it is inhumane to let them just come as they want while others do the right thing and toil to get in.

[oxymoronic]

We already granted illegal immigrants amnesty once like back in the 1980's. Does it look like it worked?

without a secure border amnesty is a bad idea. you know i feel like a sucker wasting time energy and money to bring family here legit. honestly thinking of renting a huge ass boat and bringing back about 40 of my relatives, fuck it. at least i know i'll have the support of all liberals/democrats.

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That's vastly far from what the left wants actually. I've never heard of a single person want "open boarders" in anyway.

then what exactly are you advocating for? not open borders but if you can make it here, legal or illegally, you're good to go. enjoy USA.

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Or people just become more employable instead of lazy fucks who want to live in 1950s economy with no education and use of shitty resources. Instead of educating themselves into the 21st century. That and let's just dump the nationalist bullshit that falling out of a vagina within certain lines of a map makes you superior and more deserving of work.



And the peddling of far right bullshit continues here. When most studies disagree with you and yes two illegals can't draw from social programs because to do so would get them found out.


Again immigration isn't a problem. It's idiots that think they should be holding 1950s jobs with no education and trying to make a 21st century living out of it. The issue has been that people just will not educate themselves and will at the same time vote for people who gives vague promises of "Build the wall!"... "Bringing back Jobs..." and all that crap. Again solution is education and stop living in dream world.



America wouldn't lose Super power status. It might hurt for a bit but it would recover, but it would be inhumane to do and life > money. The only thing that will stop the US being a super power is if it just stopped caring to be one and dropped all spending. Even then it would be only a switch flick from being one again. That or states fractured up and becoming own nations.



Good start



Actually the US can feed, work and house the entire world. It produces just that much. Also the ones you want to have come in are those that are least in trouble for staying where they are. Those that are illegal are likely doing so cause it's Move and have a life, or stay and die before you're 30 in poverty. That's the fact of the matter. Human life (even a single one) is worth more than an artificial line on a map.



Nope not humane at all.

god i only wish your responses were true. and its not so bad you die before 30 come on give me a fucking break. i come from a "3rd world country" yeah it sucks but cmon bro are you that mislead in life? and what you want your country to be just like that one in your head dont ya? cause that is exactly what you advocate for.

[purebalance]

I've never seen someone from the left disagree that violent criminals should be deported. The only thing your image captures is your narrow minded view on the matter.

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So, the immigration process works differently for different people in different circumstances? What else do you expect?

Except they aren't in different circumstances. Nice strawman though.

[Sky High]

as with everything nanook posts it's a solution in search of a problem, not the other way around. nothing you suggested is either supported by facts or even the least bit necessary to implement. it's really bizarre to me how a "chem major" is this hell bent on dealing with immigration like it's a personal issue for you. I get it, you live in the smelly armpit of southern California where all of the migrant workers go to find work, but how the fuck does that affect you? other than some pathetic sense of self righteousness.

[Collegeguy]

Why does everyone act like a job in the US is a human right.

[purebalance]

How are they not? You think all immigrants are in equal situations?

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No one advocates for that either. There are still certain requirements that must be met and background checks and such on people coming in. Open borders makes it seem like we just want to let any and everyone in no questions asked and that's dishonest as fuck to claim.

It doesn't matter what the situation is. If you murder someone because you felt like it versus if you murder someone because they killed your son, you're still probably going to jail for murder. If you're being abused by your spouse in Vietnam and come here legally you're here legally and if you just up and decided you'd rather live in the US and live in Mexico and come here illegally you're here illegally. Coming here illegally is still wrong no matter what your situation is. Understand that. The situation doesn't matter. There are stories about people coming from Columbia to the US because they didn't like the town that are being spread as sob stories. How many damn towns did they pass along the way that they HAD to come to the US. Sorry, you're the wrong one here and thanks for still making me have to defend against your straw man.

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Why does everyone act like a job in the US is a human right.

Pretty sure people don't, but they sure damn well make it like free entry to the US is.

[Ooid]

Why do people act like Mexico is an apocalyptic wasteland and that deporting illegal immigrants back there is a death sentence?

[Machismo]

Rewriting the 14th amendment is going to be a deal breaker. Liberals will not go for it, and conservatives will have to go against their basic beliefs to push it. The 14th Amendment is quite possible the most important one that was added after the original bill of rights.

[Mister Cheese]

We've already tried your solution before. It failed horribly.