Do you think there is any chance they ever bring 10m raiding back?

[Xinder]

When you factor in the declining subs doing 20 over a smaller number is somewhat silly. 15 might have been alright. 20 quickly became difficult to organize.

They've talked about doing another server merge at some point so that should hopefully help out the small servers that people still feel the need to stay on and bring up the populations for raiding rosters to be easier.

[Morssoe]

If Mythic was flexible there'd be an "ideal" composition for each boss.

It is okey to class stack but not flex mythic?

If anything flex would make world first races more competitive and unpredictable.

[Soisoisoi]

It's never relatively the same, for the majority if its lifespan 10HC raiding was a joke. There's only a handful of encounters that were on par or even more difficult than 25ppl versions of them.

And when it comes to M raiding it's a big problem.

I mean, I didn't wanna' start the whole 10vs25 situation but the OP answered for me :P Both difficulties had their problems. 25man was harder to get that amount of players at a decent skill level, but 10man was far less forgiving especially when it came to mistakes and raid cooldowns, and was very noticeable when you went from 10 to 25 like I did. If both difficulties were tuned equally, it's very obvious that 10 would be more difficult due to less class stacking/cooldowns available/deaths are a greater % of your raid, etc. that's just logical.

With that said - Like I said above - I really don't care if they are perfect, and they can keep the 20/25 or whatever number slightly higher so people can have that comfort. I just want a harder difficulty that's at least close to mythic standards, but with less people.

It is a brutal cycle, and I have no idea how you really escape it. You either don't raid or you get people that cant perform up to the standards required. Then even if you recruit good players, they start to leave either because you miss raids or the performance in raids is shit because you have people that can't move out with quills even if you tell them 5 times but are just there to get the numbers up to 20. Then you get so desperate for recruits that you have to take anyone, and you end up with people with 2/9 HC exp come in, get carried to a KJ kill, get some loot then leave. If you're real lucky you'll get told by them they want a better guild even though their highest raiding experience before you was getting declined to HC pugs.

Its honestly a loss/loss situation.

Yeah, it's exactly our situation atm. Taking people who aren't at our standards just to raid, and then we get more people who ARE at our standard and they see the shit we're literally carrying to fill spots and leave. It's awful.

[Dangg]

I sure hope so.


The balancing is shit anyway.

[Jimson]

It is okey to class stack but not flex mythic?

If anything flex would make world first races more competitive and unpredictable.

Class stacking is inevitable. You'd have that with any number of raiders.

[Xinder]

It is okey to class stack but not flex mythic?

If anything flex would make world first races more competitive and unpredictable.

It would only make the tuning needed in the dungeon more unpredictable. It wouldn't take the WF group long to figure out proper flex size per boss to get the least number of mechanics yet still push out enough dps to kill the boss. A set size allows them to do their best to tune the difficulty to fit the size of group they know will be fighting the boss. I know they sometimes miss on tuning but making mythic flex is not the answer.

[Trend]

Why mythic is not flexible?

Making mythic flex would exponentially increase the amount of QA and redevelopment required if they want to preserve the prestige of mythic progression. If they screw up and make something easy to cheese on normal or heroic with a particular raid size, it does not matter because it is just normal or heroic.

- - - Updated - - -

When I try to put together groups, usually it fails before it even begins because no one wants to join a group with one person in it. And when I can get 10 and stop inviting people, most of the time they are like "WHY DON'T YOU GET 15!?!?" And then leave when I say I am just going with 10...

I have only ever been able to put together like half a dozen groups with ten people... Across ALL of WoD and Legion so far.

So what are you asking for? Are you asking for Blizzard to add a 10 player mode for mythic raiding or are you asking for the community to collectively change its mind and want to do 10 player PUGs?

As far as 10 player mythics go, I think it is pretty clear that having 2 size versions of the same raids is a bad idea and something they will not go back to. I feel for ppl who have those tight groups of about 10, but changing from 20 to 10 would be equally bad, or worse, for the tight groups that are already around 20, of which there are plenty.

[Video Games]

I would probably resub if they brought it back. I like the ease of logistics more relaxing than worrying about 20-23 people.

[Trend]

I would probably resub if they brought it back. I like the ease of logistics more relaxing than worrying about 20-23 people.

So you're not playing now, but if there was 10 player mythic raiding you would come back and run a mythic raid group? That seems like quite a jump: to go from not even playing to trying to run a mythic raid. But that would seem to be what you are saying because if you are not talking about running a raid, then you would not need to worry about other people regardless. And if you are not talking about mythic raiding, you could run with 10 people right now.

[Rioo]

Wouldn't count on it but I sure hope so. It was so much more fun than 25m and later 20m.

So you're not playing now, but if there was 10 player mythic raiding you would come back and run a mythic raid group? That seems like quite a jump: to go from not even playing to trying to run a mythic raid. But that would seem to be what you are saying because if you are not talking about running a raid, then you would not need to worry about other people regardless. And if you are not talking about mythic raiding, you could run with 10 people right now.

It's not really a huge leap. A lot of people like running the guilds they raid in, just like a lot of self-employed people work harder just to not have a boss.

[Video Games]

So you're not playing now, but if there was 10 player mythic raiding you would come back and run a mythic raid group? That seems like quite a jump: to go from not even playing to trying to run a mythic raid. But that would seem to be what you are saying because if you are not talking about running a raid, then you would not need to worry about other people regardless. And if you are not talking about mythic raiding, you could run with 10 people right now.

I do have to worry anyway because I've been in many groups where people just don't show up and we can't do anything. Which usually occured in my 25 mans when they didn't in my 10 mans.

[Trend]

It's not really a huge leap. A lot of people like running the guilds they raid in, just like a lot of self-employed people work harder just to not have a boss.

It's not a big jump to go from not playing at all to leading a mythic raid? Lol, ok.

[I Push Buttons]

It's not a big jump to go from not playing at all to leading a mythic raid? Lol, ok.

If its only 10 man and most of your friends are high end raiders... Not really...

You come back and ask a couple of your buddies... "Hey, you guys trying to start our own group?"

Voila, you have half a raid group already.

[shyguybman]

we can only hope

[Deleted]

At this point, it seems unlikely they would bring it back.

It's a shame. I personally was GM of a fairly successful 10 man raiding group in MoP. We were all ex-hardcore players who just didn't have the time to raid seriously now we all have jobs. It's one of those things- it's not so much that we CAN'T organize large groups, but when that's your actual job it isn't something you want to do in your spare time. It's not so much that the logistics are hard, they're just not very fun.

For us the current heroic (normal back then) was just too easy. I can't say the whole "10 vs 25" thing ever really affected us, as we raided 5 hours a week or something and weren't watching for the world firsts. We tended to clear a good chuck of 10 man mythic and it was a fun hobby.

All but 1 of those players has quit the game now. It's a shame, but it's life I suppose.

If 10 man raiding were to come back I suspect the guild would come back to life. I don't think I'd predict it happening though.

[Jimson]

If its only 10 man and most of your friends are high end raiders... Not really...

You come back and ask a couple of your buddies... "Hey, you guys trying to start our own group?"

Voila, you have half a raid group already.

You described the first step and like Step 16, but you left out the steps where you don't just jump into Mythic after not being subbed.

[Tennis]

I would probably resub if they brought it back. I like the ease of logistics more relaxing than worrying about 20-23 people.

I dunno. The problem is also the alt unfriendly expansion and the time sink. If it were possible to see content without having to dedicate that much time I'd be in.

[SoulForge]

No. You say that because you are in a guild that did not have the right mentality from the get-go.

25 man (and 40 man for that matter) was the progression difficulty for what, 5 years?

If you are finding it a "logistical nightmare" your guild's leadership is simply lacking.
It is harder to organize and maintain for sure, but nothing that should seem daunting.

I've been leading the same guild since mid wrath and if they ever took away large group raiding I would probably stop raiding all together.

Raiding with 10 just does not feel the same.

No one said anything about taking 20 - 25 away. I just like 10. We did fine for a long time. Clearing content (Eventually). Having a good time then BAM. Roadblock. Hasn't been the same since. We've been through multiple mergers. People that didn't work out. Its been a garbage time. Thought about quitting more than once because its god awful stuck on Heroic and we've had it cleared forever.

The server I was on literally died shortly after the change to 20 man. Trade chat ground to a halt at nearly all times of the day.

[Khorm]

The server I was on literally died shortly after the change to 20 man. Trade chat ground to a halt at nearly all times of the day.

The weak are always discarded in evolution.

[Dom]

Most of the raid and dungeon development team is composed of old hardcore 25m enthusiasts. They used "balance" as a smoke screen to carry out their vision for the game. There was no logical reason for it. They simply just didn't like 10m. It must've hurt their pride to see the overwhelming majority of raiders choose 10m no matter how many incentives 25m got.

I will never forget at the start of Cata all those chest-pounding 25m guilds boasting they wouldn't go 10m despite it getting same gear. By the time Firelands came out, nearly all of them were dead or had gone 10m. Who can blame them? It's miserable to deal with that many people when you're apart of guild leadership. People don't want to come home from work and play a game that is less fun than their job.

We arguably didn't even get better bosses. I still think ToT was better than anything we've gotten since. That was supposed to be the one saving grace. They were going to kill off thousands of guilds, make people quit or server transfer, and totally neglect the balance of normal/heroic, all for 20m mythic and they couldn't even make those theoretical superior boss fights.