Legion is really delivering on regular new content

[Thelxi]

Would you prefer it to be 12 weeks with just 1 new quest every week, like broken shore?

No, I would prefer all the quest content to be unlocked instantly and just the raid delayed by a few weeks, opposed to 3 weeks for the quest content to be unlocked and then however many weeks on top of that for the raid.

[anon5123]

No, I would prefer all the quest content to be unlocked instantly and just the raid delayed by a few weeks, opposed to 3 weeks for the quest content to be unlocked and then however many weeks on top of that for the raid.

Of course, then you'd have people blowing through it all in 1 day and then flocking to the forums crying about how argus was so little content and "not a major patch" and such.

Staggering a quest chain over 3 weeks is not bad at all.

[Aliven]

Call this complaint constructive rather than whiny but legions biggest flaw is that its a whole load of nothing.

The time gating is its biggest achilies heel, yes we get new content but all of it is locked behind forced time gates to make it feel artifically longer and more paced.

In other words, in reality, the patches are roughly the same size as many previous ones. When you consider that 7.3 is more or less a heavily PVEcentric 5.2 with more time gating and less regular content to do.

Long story short...

Legions content hasnt been that exciting or fun, and quite honestly, hasnt been that rewarding.

Actually i wonder if this timegate isnt something they impose on themselfs because they are unable to make content in 77 days. I mean, sure, patch is still here but i dont believe they just launch it and then, week after week, just some janitor pull a lever to launch new one stupid Khadgar quest. It looks like they are behind schedule, but as long as patch technically fired up, higher ups are happy...

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Weaponizing sub numbers is pretty old news though, and a pretty poor metric for us fans to use as a metric of success. We can say that subs are up or growing! But then get into all sorts of useless conversation about sub growth shrinking, subs going down, sub decline is greater or lesser than it was before, blah blah.

IMO we get lost in those sorts of numbers, as if the happiness of other players comes before my own. I mean it matters since this is a multiplayer game, but it matters far less to me.

But you do understand that blizzard is still using sub numbers as a metric right? They just dont show numbers to general public, because it garnet negative responses and, honestly, wod showed far and wide that they fucked up big time.

Sub number is great and objective data to digest. If they steadily grow then something is done right and things are on right tracks. If subs steadily fall then the oposite is true. If there is some huuuuuge drop then something big is fucked up.

And if, by official statement, the wow now is doing barely better than wow in wod era (the HUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUGE fuck up) then it is no wonder they dont want to post number for general public. Hell, FF14 some time ago put info they got 10M barrier break.

Point is - there is no objective reason to NOT show possitive data with public, it gather interest, generate hype. There is also little reason to show unfavourable numbers. For the oposite effects, like "sinking ship" etc. So, not showing data is not a good sign.

[Thelxi]

Of course, then you'd have people blowing through it all in 1 day and then flocking to the forums crying about how argus was so little content and "not a major patch" and such.

Staggering a quest chain over 3 weeks is not bad at all.

That is your opinion.

[Aliven]

Of course, then you'd have people blowing through it all in 1 day and then flocking to the forums crying about how argus was so little content and "not a major patch" and such.

Staggering a quest chain over 3 weeks is not bad at all.

Sooo let me get it straight - people would bitch on forums either way no matter what they do. So, from marketing point of view it is better to also piss off some players just because?
You are the sheep who is cutting itself, praise the system and ask for more. They do this mostly because they want to stretch as much sub time as possible, doing any shitty and shady shit they can think off. Its almost like Ubi, EA and Acti all joined forces and by their greed combined they created mmo.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Sooo let me get it straight - people would bitch on forums either way no matter what they do. So, from marketing point of view it is better to also piss off some players just because?
You are the sheep who is cutting itself, praise the system and ask for more. They do this mostly because they want to stretch as much sub time as possible, doing any shitty and shady shit they can think off. Its almost like Ubi, EA and Acti all joined forces and by their greed combined they created mmo.

Blizzard has been pacing out quest since tbc. The only different is they were locked before rep in the past and a lot of te time if you missed a day on your rep dailys it would take more then a week to do and you had to do that on every single toon.

[Deleted]

Then Wotlk was the expansion with less launch content than any other. What they did with naxx back in wotlk is comparable to what they did with BT this expansion and BT isn't even considered main content. So Wotlk launched with OS and EOE 2x 1 boss raid.
I remember forums back in wotlk complaining about how easy naxx was and how far away ulduar was, let me find the link to that song:

"nothing left to do, let's do something new
so come and meet me at ulduar"
wotlk release in november 13 and all raids got cleared in a few weeks with little to no effort needed. Ulduar released april 14th according to gampedia.

Of course Naxxramas was a lazy rehash. But we weren't comparing launch content, we were comparing patch content. And believe me, baby, we can compare other expansions just as fine. Bottomline is, Legion doesn't have more patch content than other expansions, it's just paced out more and gated as fuck. Every expansion still loses to the king of content that was The Burning Crusade. Or even Vanilla.

[Aliven]

Blizzard has been pacing out quest since tbc. The only different is they were locked before rep in the past and a lot of te time if you missed a day on your rep dailys it would take more then a week to do and you had to do that on every single toon.

Thanks. It isnt something new. It still the same, now stale, shit.

[anon5123]

Sooo let me get it straight - people would bitch on forums either way no matter what they do.

Yes. You can't please everyone. No matter what Blizzard does, in any aspect of the game, there will be bitching on the forums.

But how many people do you see bitching about this? Not a whole lot. So it seems that staggering the content over 3 weeks was a good idea.

You are the sheep

sheep

Stopped reading here.

If you have to resort to calling other people "sheep", then your argument must hold very little weight.

I'll just stop replying to you now. After all, I'm just a "sheep", so what does my opinion matter to you? To the ignore list you go~

That is your opinion.

Nope. I've seen it happen multiple times, people crying about "no content" after they complete everything in a day or two.

[quras]

Nope. I've seen it happen multiple times, people crying about "no content" after they complete everything in a day or two.

If content from a new patch can be completed in a day or two of play. Thats some pretty sparse content. It might not be no content but it's very little.

Watering it down and spreading it out using a timed lock out/release doesn't make it suddenly a lot of content to play.

[anon5123]

Watering it down and spreading it out using a timed lock out/release doesn't make it suddenly a lot of content to play.

What about this patch was "watered down" ?

And staggered release has been going on for a long time. LFR wings are staggered for the exact reason I said: so that people don't just blow through it in one day and then flock to the forums crying that there's nothing to do.

It's not about making it more content, it's about ensuring that it doesn't get consumed too quickly. Artificial extension to the content's life, yes, but considering how long it takes to make the content, I'd rather have a staggered release instead of waiting 5+ months between patches.

[quras]

What about this patch was "watered down" ?

And staggered release has been going on for a long time. LFR wings are staggered for the exact reason I said: so that people don't just blow through it in one day and then flock to the forums crying that there's nothing to do.

It's not about making it more content, it's about ensuring that it doesn't get consumed too quickly. Artificial extension to the content's life, yes, but considering how long it takes to make the content, I'd rather have a staggered release instead of waiting 5+ months between patches.

So in truth there really is little actual content. it is spread thin and artificially extended to create the illusion of more than there actually is.

I'd rather them not do that because little content no matter how they manipulate it, is still just that. Very little content.

Make the content worth repeating so even if it is consumed, there is a reason to do it again. Consumption should be up to the gamer not the devs. Content should be created to be repeated and make it worth repeating. Not gated so the little content you do get is spread so thin.

[SoulSoBreezy]

But you do understand that blizzard is still using sub numbers as a metric right? They just dont show numbers to general public, because it garnet negative responses and, honestly, wod showed far and wide that they fucked up big time.

I'm only saying that we fans are even worse when it comes to sub numbers to write our own narrative. I'd be a lot more interested in a study that tracks WoW's growth relative to factors outside the game itself, including the rise of console multiplayer gaming, political climates, the cost of pc gaming at the time, other games released at the time, the advertising reach, etc.

It's easy to blame what's in front of us but I'm just curious what else played a role in the perfect storm of WoW's rise to fame.

[Rafoel]

Because they are delaying content. So far we've gotten:

- Broken Shore World Quests
- Tomb of Sargeras
- Invasions
- Cathedral of Eternal Light
- Class Quests
- Argus World Quests and Zones

So that is 1 raid and 1 dungeon, 1 zone that was already in the game but fleshed out with World Quests, 3 smaller zones with World Quests and a small story and invasions (new world quests) and class quests for every class to get their mount.

That's a good amount of content, but compare this to one year into Wrath of the Lich King we had:

- Ulduar
- Argent Tournament dailies
- Trial of the Crusader
- Trial of the Champion
- Icecrown Citadel
- Forge of Souls
- Pit of Saron
- Halls of Reflection

That's 3 raids, 4 dungeons and daily quests in Icecrown. So Legion probably had more outdoor content, but Wrath clearly had more dungeon and raid content. Now Legion will still have one more dungeon and one more raid, but it's not out yet, the dungeon will be available next week and the raid in a few weeks and even then that only brings it to 2 raids and 2 dungeons. Still loses compared to Wrath.

1) We didn't have ICC 1 year in, it was released in December and WotLK landed in November. If you decide to count it you should count Antorus as well, so its 2 raids vs 3, or actually 2 vs 2.5 because ToS cant be counted as complete raid.

Also, how do you count Nighthold? It wasn't first tier raid, not in the common meaning.

2) Same, if you decide to count ICC dungs, you should count Seat as well, so its 2 dungeons vs 3. Despite memorable Lich King encounter Halls of Reflection is hardly a dungeon, it consists of 1 corridor with 1 room where you fight boss and trash and one room where the Lich King chase starts. Seat and Cathedral provide more content than all 3 ICC dungs together, not to mention the Mythic+ system that keeps all other dungs relevant. In WotLK at this point of xpac you already completely forgot about old dungs.

3) The whole Argent Tournament and its dailies are memorable indeed, but they just can't compare to the massive new zones we got with Broken Shore and especially Argus.

Objectively, Legion has much more content than WotLK. Players just became much harder to satisfy.

[Deliverer]

Of course Naxxramas was a lazy rehash. But we weren't comparing launch content, we were comparing patch content. And believe me, baby, we can compare other expansions just as fine. Bottomline is, Legion doesn't have more patch content than other expansions, it's just paced out more and gated as fuck. Every expansion still loses to the king of content that was The Burning Crusade. Or even Vanilla.

Why do you count NH as launch content then? Raid was re tested during ToV and was available in february when expansion launched in september, which is the same time frame between naxx and ulduar.
You just like wotlk as an expansion are your comments are just biased.

[Deleted]

Why do you count NH as launch content then? Raid was re tested during ToV and was available in february when expansion launched in september, which is the same time frame between naxx and ulduar.
You just like wotlk as an expansion are your comments are just biased.

Because it was part of tier 1. It was just delayed as Blizzard's attempt to gate content. Without it, the expansion only launched with 1 raid, with 7 bosses. Or better to say no raids at all, since Emerald Nightmare was delayed as well.

So either the expansion launched with 0 raids, which means the first 2 raids that were released only delivered what should have been in at launch, putting it at the same place content-wise with other expansions only months later, or it launched with 2 raids, even though they weren't there yet, and then you can't attribute them to patches. Pick one. You can't have your cake and eat it too.

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1) We didn't have ICC 1 year in, it was released in December and WotLK landed in November.

We are now at a point where the expansion has been out for more than 12 months. Even in 1-2 months Antorus won't be out and even then, only release part by part over LFR. Therefore it is fair to compare Legion to 3.3

[Thelxi]

Nope. I've seen it happen multiple times, people crying about "no content" after they complete everything in a day or two.

Your opinion is that it is bad. Save your semantics for others.

[anon5123]

So in truth there really is little actual content. it is spread thin and artificially extended to create the illusion of more than there actually is.

Welcome to MMORPGs. This has been going on since the game's launch.

And staggering content does not mean that there is little content. You seem incredibly biased towards WoW. Not surprising, seeing your sig advertising for the "WoW killer"...which went F2P in one year. rofl

Your opinion is that it is bad. Save your semantics for others.

Watching something happen multiple times is not an opinion.

wew lad

[clevin]

They're not shipping content any faster. It's about the same content pace as TBC, LK, etc. What they have discovered is that it feels better to get many more frequent updates vs big updates with lots of empty between each.

All they've done is to take the usual updates they used to do about every 5 months and split out the raid, then deliver the non-raid stuff first with the raid patch about 2.5 months later. It's still a 5 month cycle for the full thing but we get a .0 patch and then a .5 patch vs one big patch. It's a better way to deliver stuff (though I'd lose the time gating within patches) but it's not more actual content.

[SaneyBoo]

Biggest test is how large the gap between the last bit of content to the next expansion is going to be, that has been my biggest gripe with the last expansions, very long content draught before the next expansion.