EU Tries to fine Poland $75 Mil. Poland sends Germany $1Trillion bill for WWII

[Deleted]

Letting Poland into the EU was a mistake, for all parties involved. Not personally a fan of the neoliberal EU, but the Polish executive just effectively neutered its supreme court.

Imagine Congress put SCOTUS under its control.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

And i think with that you said enough on the subject really, thanks and adieu!

Not even close. You're terrible at politics, aren't you?

[Acidbaron]

Not even close. You're terrible at politics, aren't you?

I know my attention is addictive but i'm sorry i have to let you go

[Combatbutler]

Well they have been doing a fine job of it so far lol. And now they are trying to bully us too because we're finally leaving their corrupt little union (which we never wanted any part of) /cheer.

They haven't they need the support of the other member states to actually do anything, that is the very principle of the EU. No state alone can dictate things within the EU everything is based on compromise.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I know my attention is addictive but i'm sorry i have to let you go

Just pointing out you don't seem to understand how politics work.

[Serpha]

So Germany is a bad guy but the rest of us that pay for the eastern Europe to drag behind is to suffer too?

Pretty much.

[Mayhem]

We also house several military bases and NASA while having the largest GDP only second to California.

Secondly, if we had an absolute Democracy, then California ironically would be by and large calling the shots. Fortunately, we don't, we're a republic.

But for some reason germany is calling the shots in the EU despite having less of a say than by comparison california in the US? Yeah, that absolutely makes sense.

Thirdly, how are your cheap shots at all relevant to our current conversation besides only feeding me ammunition for a return fire? I was arguing that large governments make it HARDER to focus on home. You're constantly funneling your energy into the centralized body which also helps to siphon off taxation as well that could go back towards the state.

Just to highlight that you have no leg to stand on considering this conversation since you have not a clue about how the EU works as shown by comparing the EU and germany to the US and texas.

Then ironically, you get stand-up guys like yourself, trash talking how we take and take yet don't calculate for the fact that we also give. Not only of our money in the first place but also of our land, of our citizens, and most importantly our time and sovereignty. All the while, you sit there gawking like a neanderthal without a clue as to why we might be hesitant to trust in larger power structures. Maybe your very attitude is why. Because by the end of it, even though we ultimately helped to create the very power in question, it comes back to bite us and belittle us. Inevitably. Every. God. Damn. Time.

I have yet to start trash talking.

[Deleted]

And like I said before it didn't, the USSR did on it's behalf.

To put it in perspective, Poland was invaded in WW2 (by both Russia and Germany), then occupied entirely by Russia, it wasn't freed from Russian control until after Germany had reunified and so never got it's own say at the time.

That's some completely insane cherry-picking. With that 'reasoning' all contracts entered by Poland in the timeframe till 1990 are void: Poland isn't member of the UN, both its eastern and western borders are not recognized, it isn't member of any trade organisations etc. Good luck with that.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

But for some reason germany is calling the shots in the EU despite having less of a say than by comparison california in the US? Yeah, that absolutely makes sense.



Just to highlight that you have no leg to stand on considering this conversation since you have not a clue about how the EU works as shown by comparing the EU and germany to the US and texas.



I have yet to start trash talking.

If I had a dime for every goddamn EU shill on here I'd be able to go get me a sandwich and soda.

You guys aren't that unique. Sorry. I know how your shit works aside from a few backwards ways of doing things that are not nearly as clever nor inventive as you might think they are. I also know more importantly you can barely get your act together yet want to rule the world going by your attitude and demeanor.

You ain't shit. You ain't gonna be shit. Why? Because you're too dense and selfish to create a proper, lasting union. Kids don't even know what the fuck public perception is and what it means to you yet you want a seat at the big boy table. If you can't get the people on your side, you didn't have a leg to stand on to begin with - end of discussion.

Fucking Putin is cooler than you lot and he's an openly tyrannical douche bag.

[Tijuana]

This makes me proud of my Polish ancestry



Poland refuses to take its EU immigrant quota. Germany threatens to fine Poland $75 million. Poland responds by demanding $1 trillion in WWII Reparations from Germany.

This immigration deal in the EU is just getting more and more bizarre every day. Is letting refugees destroy your civilization really worth breaking up the EU over? Why is this a priority above ALL other issues, including the military? It's been just so strange to watch unfold from afar, I can't even begin to describe it to someone living inside the issue/EU.

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What splendid advice kick down france as well while you are at it? Just because Germany gets more media coverage does by no means mean they can actually enforce something by themselves within the EU.

Wait, Germany didn't conquer Europe via the EU? That's not what I heard...

[Mayhem]

If I had a dime for every goddamn EU shill on here I'd be able to go get me a sandwich and soda.

You guys aren't that unique. Sorry. I know how your shit works aside from a few backwards ways of doing things that are not nearly as clever nor inventive as you might think they are. I also know more importantly you can barely get your act together yet want to rule the world going by your attitude and demeanor.

You ain't shit. You ain't gonna be shit. Why? Because you're too dense and selfish to create a proper, lasting union. Kids don't even know what the fuck public perception is and what it means to you yet you want a seat at the big boy table. If you can't get the people on your side, you didn't have a leg to stand on to begin with - end of discussion.

Fucking Putin is cooler than you lot and he's an openly tyrannical douche bag.

Oh boy, someones triggered.

So you know how our shit works but still spout random nonsense? That means you're not uninformed but you are just lying, way to go. And have a good time, not worth further responding to you.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Oh boy, someones triggered.

So you know how our shit works but still spout random nonsense? That means you're not uninformed but you are just lying, way to go. And have a good time, not worth further responding to you.

...I like how you keep giving me the, "how our shit works" spiel and yet don't seem to understand how governing bodies in general work.

I'm thinking beyond your little rule book. I'm looking at the big picture. You've come to believe X can't possibly be a threat because of Y and I argue Z trumps all because Z is what actually dictates power, not your cute little Y's that you cling to like a fly on shit without understanding what can undermine them. It is an accepted form of ignorance and the worst part about it? You keep trying to strong-arm yourself into a position of superiority that you haven't even come remotely close to earning.

And no, not at all triggered. Just figured I'd treat you a bit more like you've been treating me and everyone else. Don't like it do you?

[Slant]

Rebuild the country, as in build it up to the state it should be in, improve schools, hospitals, infrastructure, etc. You know all the stuff you did to East Germany to make it better than Poland is.

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What a sad attitude "my countries doing well and **** the ones that aren't because of my countries war crimes! We've dodged our debts for 70 years and we're not stopping now!"

Rebuild the country? Wtf are you on about? Have you been to Poland lately?



What do you want to rebuild there? There is no destruction! Despite current rumours in the US (and Wales, apparently), Europe is not in ruins anymore! Shocking news, I know...

Sad attitude? You're saying that while I support basically spoonfeeding Greece until they can stand on their own again? Are you fucking kidding me? After I supported easing Greece's burden by taking some refugees in? And when I talk about me defending Germany against an actual invasion, that's "a sad attitude"? LOL, you're not the caervek I remember... you used to be able to formulate coherent, intelligent posts. This is just a pathetic excuse for shitposting...

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Germany by and large seems to dictate what goes and doesn't. You can't feel comfortable being subservient to a union that seems centralized around a singular country and more to the point, a singular woman that comes across as determined to make her own mark come hell or high water. Either everyone is fairly represented or you aren't much of a union.

...and regardless of whether its perception or something more tangible, the fact is, that's how people see it. That's what you're working with.

Someone needs to explain to you that the EU was around longer than Merkel. I know, unfathomable, since Merkel has ruled Germany longer than you're even alive, but fuckit, she doesn't own the EU. And it's impolite for kids to interrupt adult conversations.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Rebuild the country? Wtf are you on about? Have you been to Poland lately?



What do you want to rebuild there? There is no destruction! Despite current rumours in the US (and Wales, apparently), Europe is not in ruins anymore! Shocking news, I know...

Sad attitude? You're saying that while I support basically spoonfeeding Greece until they can stand on their own again? Are you fucking kidding me? After I supported easing Greece's burden by taking some refugees in? And when I talk about me defending Germany against an actual invasion, that's "a sad attitude"? LOL, you're not the caervek I remember... you used to be able to formulate coherent, intelligent posts. This is just a pathetic excuse for shitposting...

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Someone needs to explain to you that the EU was around longer than Merkel. I know, unfathomable, since Merkel has ruled Germany longer than you're even alive, but fuckit, she doesn't own the EU. And it's impolite for kids to interrupt adult conversations.

...aaaaaaand right over your head it goes. Slant must be derived from your forehead's righteous slope.

But go ahead, let's keep this going. It's starting to get outright comedic.

[Mehrunes]

I'm not even responding to this mangled mess of a post, sorry. Not how you'd perhaps wish, anyway.

Yeah, clearly separated paragraphs are a mess now, sure

I already went at it for several rounds with Acid, not doing it again and more to the point not dissecting where you responded to me from where you responded towards everyone else.

And that fact alone doesn't magically make you right. You exhibited ignorance of the very basics of refugee law as well as the nature of EU.

Add to that the whole 'ignorant' insult being thrown my way so casually, it all honestly bores me and is soooooo damn typical of someone that can't control their emotions; which begs the question of their ability to discern actual fact from fiction and whether they'll be honest with themselves let alone me.

The idea that pointing out one's ignorance is emotional-based is patently ridiculous. It isn't any more emotional than pointing out that someone is knowledgeable on the topic. The idea that it begs the question of one's ability to discern facts from fiction is even more ridiculous and enters deflection territory.

Also, I will admit it gets rather old arguing with people who don't show me even a shred of respect while I try to keep everything above the belt initially and would not rather go down that road - period. Not to say the aforementioned poster did as much but as a general rule, very common on here and you slid rather comfortably into it.

So what would you prefer? Handling you with kid gloves and brushing the fact that your claims exhibit severe misunderstanding of EU or refugee law? Because to me that would be an actual lack of respect. If being ignorant or people pointing that out offends you, you could try stop being ignorant.

In terms of your inaccurate portrayal of EU you had all the opportunity in the world to do so because I pointed out to you that EU has been political in nature since its very conception in a post separate from this "mangled mess" (). In which I addressed only post of yours, so the incredibly difficult task of separating answers to you was a bit easier there. And yet you chose to wallow in ignorance and continued on with your false narrative.

Of course, this is then typically followed by an excuse for the rather crass behavior such as, "Ignorance deserves to be called out!" Yeah, well, when you cherry-pick the unholy hell out of your stances and give zero room for divergent thought you aren't exactly a shining beacon of enlightenment yourself.

Would you rather fester in your ignorance? Then public discussions may not be for you. Do point out what exactly have I cherry-picked though.

As if we couldn't have possibly reviewed the same material and came to differences in opinion or have seen differing material in of itself. To the depths with that. I stand in opposition and must be painted as the heretic I am with big boy words.

There is no room for difference in opinions for things like whether the EU is political or not. It either is, or it is not. Just so happens it is and always has been. And the EEC predeceasing it has been outlined to eventually become political in the Treaty of Rome that founded it.

However, I digress and back to me harping on some being able to get away with such antics because they belong to given, likely preferred political persuasion while I'll get nailed to the wall for the same. Just isn't fun. I'm sure you can understand. It'd potentially be different if that wasn't the case and I could return the favor but alas no!

I'm not 100% sure what's the point behind this semi-coherent rambling ridden with victim complex, let alone how this coexists with your earlier moralizing from your ivory tower about emotional language. Like, who exactly is going to nail you to the wall if you participated in the "antics" of pointing out someone's ignorance?

1. The Poles are just as free to buy French, German, Italian or Russian military tech as they please. Don't get all pissy because you lost the bid.

What bid are you even talking about? Because when it came to the dated F16 with equally weak offset deal (that the US didn't even completely fulfill), Poland did indeed have European alternatives and they didn't lose any bids there. Because US praised their crap to high heavens. I.e. bullshitted the hell out of their "strategic partner".

2. I fought next to Polish soldiers in Ghazni. They're good fighters and happy warriors. They were glad to be with us. Don't project your qualms on to others.

This doesn't even address what I said. That US dragged Poland and others into wars with Afghanistan and Iraq is not a personal qualm, it's a fact. Foreign relations between Poland and those two countries were basically nonexistent beforehand. Both also lacked UN mandate. Whoopty doo. In relation to the above, US also failed to fulfill their equipment and technology promises they made for Poland to join Iraq war. Not that the soldiers actually had much choice to go there anyway. And something tells me that if they had the option of no war with country insignificant to Polish interests vs a war, they would pick option A.

3. The rest of the EU is only strategically important in so much as their interests and intentions align with ours. As things stand now, Poland is a much more enthusiastic ally in a much more important location.

And given the amount of trade between EU and US, their interests very much align.

4. The EU lacks the political unity and collective will required to challenge the US geopolitically. They haven't even managed to complete a free trade deal with an economy of significance to date. This may change one day, but for the moment, the US moves, and the EU bickers internally. It's laughable to characterize them as a geopolitical peer, much less a rival.

Except the biggest free trade area on Earth, including some of the world's largest individual economies, is one of the pillars of EU. Meanwhile US... failed at TTIP and made TPP implode... Such a giant when it comes to significant free trade deals. Speaking of TTIP, the US didn't exactly move there much. Instead, they were stonewalled by EU.

When discussing geopolitics, it does not do well to project your biases on the factors in play. That is not to say you can't have an opinion for or against something, but you should not allow your understanding of the facts themselves to be tainted by that opinion.

You didn't even address what I said face on and instead talked about irrelevant, misrepresenting or simply incorrect shit, but OK, I'll totally heed such advice from you.

Well, it's like this. Poland joins the EU under the condition to adhere to certain democratic principles. Then Poland receives the usual money injections that the EU dishes out, because that's what the EU does. Then Poland goes "fuck you" mode and basically freezes their version of checks and balances, thus reverting a lot of things that are necessary for a democracy. Then the EU warns Poland. And warns them again. And again. For over a year. Now they're fining Poland (which is really just another warning, the endgame is removal from the EU, really).

Except that's not the endgame. As to why, let's start with the part where it's impossible.

And Germany's ignoring it, because Poland's reparations have been settled in the 50s already. You don't get to bill us twice for the same thing. Certainly not for such ridiculous amounts. We're not their cash cow.

There was no bill in the 50s...

Yes, no. Blaming the US for Soviet occupation of Warsaw pact states... that's stretching it too thin. You do not get to blame Western nations for that. That's all on the Soviet Union.

To paraphrase a part of your previous post, no one forced Western nations to give central Europe to Stalin in Potsdam and Yalta.

We have paid them properly. And we've settled the matter. You don't get to "renegotiate" 60 years later. There's three generations between that and us. Shit's done and over with. I mean, heck, for kicks and giggles I would even negotiate with you over it. My first bullet point, let's talk about Germany accepting those borders of Poland after WW2. I think we should renegotiate that. How about it? Can we reinstate the old German borders again? Just for funsies?

If you actually read the article, you'd know that East Germany hasn't paid anything because USSR forced the issue to be dropped. And not only do you not get to renegotiate your borders as the losing aggressor of the war (on a side node, those old borders come from acts of aggression as well, so further multiply that no), but you're aiming it at the wrong party. USSR redistributed those lands.

I'm absolutely convinced that Poland is having a damn good life as it is. What we don't get is why they throw it away like that. Well, we do know... their president is even more cookoo than Trump. His twin got killed in a plane accident.

Jarosław Kaczyński is neither president, nor does he hold any actual position in the executive. Though he's the one who pulls the strings of both.

Germany has tried to appease him and build good relations for the better part of a decade. To no avail. Polish people in Germany that I spoke to openly say they don't understand it. It's very nationalistic and very anti-EU. That in itself isn't a big problem, but it's too extreme and irrational they say.

If Germany tried to appease PiS' leader for the better part of a decade, it was a lot of wasted time on their part, given how PiS has not been in power for the better part of a decade (be it the last decade, or in total numbers).

the third reich is not germany. Not very hard to understand is it?

It is Third Reich's legal successor though.

Wasn't Poland brutal to their Germans prior to German invasion? Did Poland subtract that total from the bill?

After the war? The Red Army forced Germans out. And Red Army was Russian. Prior to the war? Lelno.

Lol of course you can, the whole reason asylum investigations are conducted is because if somebody travels thousands of miles from a third world country across multiple countries then it's hard to immediately validate their identity and story. On the other hand if somebody from a developed nation walks directly into your country carrying their passport that says they live in what is currently a war zone then their refugee status can be confirmed on the spot.

And how's that supposed to work? Did Poland throw darts at Ukrainians at random to determine which ones are refugees? Never mind that by official Polish data there are only 37 Ukrainian refugees there.

Western countries trying to pretend that refugees are economic migrants just because they are European refugees and the existence of European refugees makes them uncomfortable is just sad.

Western countries took more Ukrainian refugees than Poland.

Well, they declared a waiver in 1953. Regardless, they also agreed to the state of affairs in 1990, when Germany was reunificated. If you want to bring up reparations again, that would've been the time. Too little, too late. Either way, Germany isn't paying them more than they already have. People really need to stop begging for money since we're fast approaching the 100 year mark for WW2.

War reparation claims don't expire with time.

That's exactly how it works.

Nope.

Unless you want us to start making demands of France for invading through Germany a couple of times, Italy for occupying half of our territory 2k years ago. the Vatican for instigating a 30 year long civil war in Germany over the mad antics of a monk... fucking Mongolia for fucking up Europe and displacing Germans as an indirect result.... and so on and so forth. Want to tally up while I wait? No?

You're comparing applies to oranges. There was a clear legal framework for reparations for WWII. The claims have been created. Once they have been, they won't expire until they are fulfilled. The same can't be said for the other wars you mentioned.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Yeah, clearly separated paragraphs are a mess now, sure

To me it's a mess in terms of having to respond and break it back down accordingly. Not a huge fan, sorry. That being said, I'll give it a go.

And that fact alone doesn't magically make you right. You exhibited ignorance of the very basics of refugee law as well as the nature of EU.

Honestly? I think just about any codified law concerning refugees is idiotic but that's just me so that might explain my complete and utter lack of respect for the premise of. I know if I was a sovereign body that joined with the EU I probably wouldn't have really concerned myself with this initially in lieu of the economical benefits. Better to reap the reward now, argue the semantics later if they do arise; which unfortunately for many they did with the EU providing open arms towards refugees and more-so through Merkel's oh-so generous gesturing.

Now if you'd like to argue that Merkel did not in fact roll out the red carpet and virtue signal the unholy fuck out of the whole of Northern Africa to come party down in Europe for a spell, then I wish to see evidence to the contrary; however, if you're unable to provide as much evidence then there is a solid grounds in which to dismiss the call for housing these refugees as unfair and potentially unethical because they're less refugees and more like advantageous migrant seekers thanks to her.

It's one thing when a poor and war-weary soul crosses your state boundary looking for sanctuary. It's another when you have a veritable horde on your hands because your biggest ego among the leadership gave a grand invitation.

The idea that pointing out one's ignorance is emotional-based is patently ridiculous. It isn't any more emotional than pointing out that someone is knowledgeable on the topic. The idea that it begs the question of one's ability to discern facts from fiction is even more ridiculous and enters deflection territory.

It's more of the idea that you failed to point out my ignorance but rather merely called me ignorant. The latter of which gives weight to my claim that you're being overly emotional in response to criticism laid against the EU and its view on refugees rather than reasoned. I find it difficult to trust a man who would likely drop to his knees before an effigy of the EU. It's no better than some self-proclaimed "patriot" of the United States professing how I am wrong concerning the ills of our own country.

So what would you prefer? Handling you with kid gloves and brushing the fact that your claims exhibit severe misunderstanding of EU or refugee law? Because to me that would be an actual lack of respect. If being ignorant or people pointing that out offends you, you could try stop being ignorant.

In terms of your inaccurate portrayal of EU you had all the opportunity in the world to do so because I pointed out to you that EU has been political in nature since its very conception in a post separate from this "mangled mess" (). In which I addressed only post of yours, so the incredibly difficult task of separating answers to you was a bit easier there. And yet you chose to wallow in ignorance and continued on with your false narrative.

I already responded to what I think of EU and refugee law.

When it comes to kid gloves however, you can have a bit more tact if you're wanting to impress me any. Like I have exercised. I might be brutal and to the point but with you I have not offered you direct insult as of yet; though obviously, as always, when someone disagrees with me the temptation is very real. Easy fallback that and guilty pleasure no less. Wish you would've extended the same courtesy towards me.

The EU was not created with the intent and purpose of being a heavily politicized body but rather with the intent to provide a common, unified economy in which all would benefit. It is essentially the successor to an earlier trade association of a similar though lesser stripe (you mention this later in your post I see). It has been growing towards something more, yes, and even getting to the extremes of discussing a European Army. I agree with the present tense but in terms of its origination, I'm not quite convinced.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/European_Union

Even the wiki's introduction of the EU relies heavily on the economic purpose of the organization. Maybe you could enlighten me as to otherwise. That's always preferable to being out and outright insulted.

Would you rather fester in your ignorance? Then public discussions may not be for you. Do point out what exactly have I cherry-picked though.

Sure, if it means I can avoid dealing with the pointless insults! I mean, arguably, that wouldn't be much of a "discussion" anyway, right?

There is no room for difference in opinions for things like whether the EU is political or not. It either is, or it is not. Just so happens it is and always has been. And the EEC predeceasing it has been outlined to eventually become political in the Treaty of Rome that founded it.

That's not at all evidence it was created with the intent of bringing about an ever increasing political body. From what I can tell, it was given a very economical focus in its earliest days. I'll need more than that.

I'm not 100% sure what's the point behind this semi-coherent rambling ridden with victim complex, let alone how this coexists with your earlier moralizing from your ivory tower about emotional language. Like, who exactly is going to nail you to the wall if you participated in the "antics" of pointing out someone's ignorance?

Please don't play coy with me concerning how things tend to work out within these forums and who gets shafted more often than not, even when both parties involved are equally heated and equally insulting. Shit tends to roll one way and it isn't due to chance nor bad luck.

[Mehrunes]

I think the problem here is you seem to believe that Poland is trying to victimise you, they're not they just want the remunerations they deserve which you have been dodging for 70 years. Hell they probably don't even really want them, they just want you to stop bullying them for not obeying your will and threatening to fine them.

And that's exactly why nothing will come out of this. While the issue of East Germany's reparations may be unresolved, because even ignoring the orders from Russia, Polish historians investigating the 1953 agreement had troubles finding anything tangible in Polish archives, going after it as some gotcha in relation to a completely separate legal issue preemptively kills any political goodwill Germany may have had about it. And Poland agreed to obey EU's will. It's the basic for EU even functioning.

Can you honestly not see how cheeky/audacious it is to threaten to fine a country who still hasn't recovered from you decimating it militarily and massacring its population then not paying for damages?

If Poland doesn't want to be fined by EU for breaking EU law, they can stop breaking it.

Germans decimated pretty much 90% of the intelligence in Poland. All the natural leaders, all the smartest most creative people gone. You can't rebuild that in few years, it takes generations. Looking how things are I think Poland will never be able to make up for that loss.

That's incorrect. When it comes to the decimation intelligence, Russians were very engaged in that endeavor in Katyń..

And Germany lost a large portions of its intellectuals as well. See, learning shit is really something that anyone can do. They just need to do it. Having been dumbed down by 40 years of Communism didn't help. But you can hardly blame Germany for that.

Given how it was Germany that offered USSR to tag-team Poland and how it was Germany that started the war which resulted in Red Army "liberating" Poland from, you guessed it, Germany, it's not hard at all.

The reason why they're in the EU is because we're giving them the benefit of the doubt and the time to develop. Countries like Poland and the rest of the eastern bloc shouldn't have been invited into the EU to begin with.

They met Copenhagen criteria, so the claim they shouldn't have been invited is unfounded.

Really, what would they do with a trillion Euros? Seriously? What do the people here think they would actually do? They still wouldn't have the tech or research industry Germany has.

Who said anything about Poland catching up to Germany again?

They'd still live on handouts from the EU, because a steady stream of money far surpasses a one off payment, half of which would vanish in a swamp of corruption.

Ah, yes. Poland totally lives on EU handouts as if it was living on welfare and half of EU funding evaporates to corruption. Already showing your true colors where any country negatively engaged with Germany at the moment is actually the land of the Untermensch leeching Germany dry? What's next, will you again try to spread the bullshit about how Poland has done literally nothing for 50 years before the glorious German master race graciously decided took it under their wings again, despite "(below) dipshit Poland" not really deserving it? Suddenly the claim that WWII was oh, so long ago loses meaning.

A trillion Euros for Poland means every citizen could get close to 28k Euros. For free. Fine, what are they going to do with it? Buy one car. Awesome. Now what, everything's good? 6 Million Jews and countless others are now "fixed"?

Speaking of fixed, is your mind still fixed on 6 million Jews. @Babadoo clearly said 6 million Poles (though that's incorrect, that was 6 million Polish citizens, half of which were Jews).

Poland is now smarter? More competetive? How many polish brands do you know? Do you know just one? I don't.

Properly invested 1 trillion dollars for a country like Poland would probably result in some competitiveness increase, as well as a boost to their schools and universities.

There isn't an EU bank account. The countries doing their transactions by themselves as well as the reclamation if something went wrong.

A bank account? No. But there is European Regional Development Fund, European Social Fund, Cohesion Fund, European Agricultural Fund for Rural Development, European Maritime and Fisheries Fund (though the management of the funds is shared with member states on individual level). European Commission also handles some of the funds directly.

The EU has its own budget. Their bank account is called "The European Central Bank".

Which manages the monetary policies of the Eurozone...

I think debating with current polish government is pointless. They are just bunch of narrow-minded politicans that won't change their views. I wish EU would try to communicate more with polish society as a whole. That's the only way to have a real influence on Poland and making sure that Pis doesn't get elected again in 2 years.

Majority still supports PiS. Given how EU can't negotiate with Poland or influence the Polish people, they should actually listen to Trump, build a war for Poland and write it off. They could even make Poland pay for it since the current budget is ending soon and they'll have to make a new one.

Poland receives ~ 10 billion EUR each year from the EU 'pool' and Germany contributes ~ 15 billio EUR.

Could it also be the fear that Poland will get significantly less once Britain takes off? Due to recent political developments in Poland the EU (not only Germany for fck sake) has no other means than to threaten to cut funds in oder to complay with a mutually agreed standard.

While Brexit will of course have a negative effect on EU budget, I wouldn't say it has that much of an impact here. Brexit or not, the current EU budget is coming to an end and it's been known from its start (so when Brexit wasn't even a distant fantasy) that Poland would not be in such a beneficial position in the next one. It's more about Polish government being triggered that they've been criticized as undemocratic by the EU (even though Germany itself joined in on the criticism only recently due to historical reasons, then again the reparation claim is also recent), despite such criticism being spot on.

Bold Solution: Remove Germany from the EU. They seem to be constantly stirring the shit-pot, which is interesting, considering they were major instigators in two world wars as it is.

There is no legal framework for removing a member state. And there won't be since that would require rewriting the treaties, which requires unanimous vote. And Germany isn't stirring anything here. First of all, it's EU's action. Germany can't do anything on its own in the EU. It needs a majority that supports it. Which they have. Secondly, Germany isn't even at the forefront of the situation. While German MEPs have been harsh on Poland for a long time, the government itself was relatively quiet until like three weeks ago. France is the country that currently pushes the hardest for harsher stance against countries like Poland. Lastly, EU trying to uphold EU law does not constitute as stirring by any stretch of the word. If anyone is stirring anything it's the countries breaking EU law. In this case, Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dublin_Regulation

According to this agreement made by the EU they are supposed to seek asylum in the first EU country they get to.

Except Dublin III doesn't say anything of the sort. It primarily operates on the metrics of country in which their fingerprints were first collected or the country in which they first applied for asylum. While there are a few brief mentions of first country of entry, it's only a support rule for the two above, in case the other two metrics cannot be determined.

Again, factually wrong. Poland declared they expect nothing more from Germany back in 1953.

And the Polish claim is that it was under duress from USSR, which is a valid legal argumentation (though there are other issues with that declaration).

Has Poland EVER been a powerful or prosperous country? Even going back into the middle ages the joke seemed to be if you bordered poland you conquered it at one or two points in time, only to have other strong countries make you give it back. How many times has it been absorbed by other nations and basically erased?

This is abject bullshit. Poland was the second largest country in Europe for a time and it had power to back that size up, wiping the floor with its neighbors on numerous occasions. And Poland collapsed primarily from within, due to its progressively more retarded political system. And discounting the puppet states periodically formed to throw the Polish nation a bone, it has also been absorbed only twice. The second time being in WWII (when it wasn't technically absorbed in the legal sense, only occupied), mere 20 years after it regained independence, most of which were spent merging 3 parts that were managed in completely different ways, starting with infrastructure, for more than a 100 years.

Yes, in fact it was Poland who turned the tide at the siege of Vienna, saving Austria/Germany (then the first reich) from the Ottoman Empire and marking the end of the Islamic conquest of Europe.

Which worked so well for Poland that the moment Habsburg Empire rose up from its knees, it got the amazing idea to partition Poland. Meanwhile the Ottoman Empire, that for the most part had either neutral or chill relations with the PLC, was one of the few countries that refused to recognize the partitions. Speaking of which, at least you called it Islamic conquest so you managed to beat Polish national television which railed about how Poland ended the incursion of Islamists (even though it's a 20th century concept). But even then, it was primarily Turkish conquest and they didn't force conversions.

Actually there was a period where poland wasn't only very progressive but also prosperous, but then it got divided a few times. But we talk about a time before national states (which to be honest only emerged the past 200 years). So its always hard to connect to the people at this time. They may have been subject to the polish-(lithuanian) King, but they weren't polish as they'd see themselves today (and thats in no way specific to poland)

Not entirely true. The national identities predate nation states by quite some time. In case of Poland early 16th century is particularly important in that regard. It's just it wasn't that big of a deal back then and it wasn't the central aspect of the identity of a state, with countries like Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth being multicultural. As for progressiveness, while it's true they were progressive at a time, it's also worth noting they apparently liked being the black sheep of Europe. Because while they were progressive while the rest of Europe was butchering itself over who has the best Christ, when the rest of Europe started to become more progressive, Poland went full contrarian and started to regress. For example, some of the latest Christian witch hunts happened in Poland, even though it earlier skipped on hardcore inquisition.

And if you claim whatever Communist governments do isn't valid - the same government gladly accepted a huge chunk of Germany.

Not from Germany though.

Poland has accepted over 2 milion Ukranian refugees (note refugees, not fortune seekers) since the krimea conflict begun.

Damn, that number keeps on magically growing. Now apparently surpasses the total amount of Ukrainians in Poland, somehow.

Germany does not even have a thousand of them.

Which is still more than the actual 37 of Ukrainian refugees in Poland.

With that in mind, this strikes me as extremly petty of the Eu. They want to punish Poland for not accepting illegitimate refugees.
I find it rather amusing as this clearly demonstrates that even the bureaucrats of the Eu looks upon these "refugees" as the burden they are.

They are punishing Poland for refusing to take refugees they already accepted to take. And the only thing this demonstrates is that Germany can't take care of all of them on their own because they don't shit gold.

1.Ventureing beyond the neighbouring countries of the conflict zone (see first safe country principle).

Which doesn't actually exist.

2.While the actual syrian refugees are fleeing from conflict; the vast majority are fortune seekers from both africa and the middle east.
=Illegitimate refugees

Syria isn't the only country that is producing refugees right now. And refugees accepted for relocation to meet the quotas are already vetted.

[Fojos]

Stupid German bashing strikes again - reported for making up a false headline.

Germany is not fining anyone the EU is.

- - - Updated - - -


If you are an American I think this is funny.

EU is basically Germany.

[Mehrunes]

Secondly, if we had an absolute Democracy, then California ironically would be by and large calling the shots. Fortunately, we don't, we're a republic.

It's not an either or thing. You're a democratic republic. Just not with proportionate representation for some bizarre reason. But if you were, California wouldn't be in a position to call the shots on their own unless it has a giant hidden population of Reptilians or something.

Lol, there are a lot more Ukrainian refugees in Poland than that:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/20...genous-society

Just because refugees can speak the language and actually have useful skills/training doesn't stop them being refugees XD

Them not being refugees stops them from being refugees. Poland accepted 37 Ukrainian refugees over the time span of five years. Other than that, the Ukrainians are here for work and there was no noticeable population increase of Ukrainians in Poland after the crisis in Ukraine began.

With the same reasoning Germany could deny any payments by saying: It wasn't us, it were the Nazis.
You either accept the full responsibility of the actions and therefor both the obligations and contracts of your predecessor country, or none of them.
Cherrypicking what contracts you like or don't like - especially 60 years later - will never stand before any international court because chaos would ensue then when every country could onesidedly revoke any international treaty they signed, violating the first principle of civil law pacta sunt servanda.

Given how USSR was not the predecessor country to Poland, it's not the same reasoning by a long shot. One was actual predecessor of Germany doing German things, the other was foreign country forcibly hosting an army on Polish soil, ordering Poland what to do at the height of the period of repressions in USSR's policy.

Germany by and large seems to dictate what goes and doesn't. You can't feel comfortable being subservient to a union that seems centralized around a singular country and more to the point, a singular woman that comes across as determined to make her own mark come hell or high water. Either everyone is fairly represented or you aren't much of a union.

...and regardless of whether its perception or something more tangible, the fact is, that's how people see it. That's what you're working with.

Nothing of this is true. Merkel became involved only recently, Germany doesn't have the power to dictate anything, all countries are equally represented (with the exception of the parliament, where less populated countries have a handicap), most EU member states agree Poland should obey EU law and EU is so centralized around Germany that only one out of seven institutions of EU has its seat in Germany and it's the only one that doesn't cover all member states and even the idea that it's the supposed perception in EU is not only unsupported by you, but given how it comes from a Texan who already presented lack of basic knowledge about the EU, it's likely to be nonsense.

Again: Please point out the actual number of refugees in poland, because that's what this thread is about: Poland says the accepted millions of ukrainian refugees - all i ask is for a source, because the only one that i can find is _3_!

As per the data from the Polish bureau for the issues of foreigners, 37. But that's by adding all the refugees accepted in the 5 years covered in the data. So there's a chance some of them may have lost the status in the meantime.

Letting Poland into the EU was a mistake, for all parties involved. Not personally a fan of the neoliberal EU, but the Polish executive just effectively neutered its supreme court.

Imagine Congress put SCOTUS under its control.

Constitutional Tribunal. The task of deliberating on the constitutionality of law is governed by specialized court in Poland. Supreme Court of Poland performs only the "highest court" duties of SCOTUS. Things like highest instance (tough not an appeals one), overseeing lower courts, that sort of thing. Though the Supreme Court, together with the rest of the normal judiciary system are currently on the chopping block.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

I'm not even going to reply once he gets back to MY reply.

Fucking hell, I think the guy is literally combing through every post and any that even remotely irks him he immediately refers to that as ignorant, bitches, moves on to the next in an orderly and goddamn psychotic manner.

I'm done. I can't be bothered to keep breaking down his mega-responses. Talk about a windbag. Failed to even discern where I'd come up with the idea that California would have a very strong grip on the country, as if it doesn't tend to swing a hard blue in its most populated centers and as a result would completely overwhelm much of the remaining United States if we were to act more akin to a Democracy rather than a Republic.

California, New York, and Texas are three of the most populated states within the U.S. and between these three, primarily California (due to having the highest), the rest of the country would be at the mercy of if we didn't have electors and instead went for a purely democratic election. Not sure why that's hard to grasp but whatever.

In fact, I think I'll just block him at this point. I can tolerate the insults long enough but when you're being purposefully obtuse to just further get off petty shots at me it quickly loses its charm.