So, can we call Legion a bust for anyone who played Ret, and what's in it for 8.0?

[xxcloud417xx]

With 7.3 released and seemingly nothing significant on the horizon for Retribution Paladins other than a different Tier set, can we now safely assume this expac is just a write-off for us in terms of having our issues addressed?

Does anyone still think Blizzard will do something at this point before next expac (other than the obvious pre-expac patch)? If so, what would you expect from them?

Finally, last question, what's your 8.0 prediction or even hopes for the spec? Do you see a return to MoP/WoD gameplay, or just a refined version of our current Colossus Smash 2.0 gameplay with better options than Crusade-only?

I've been Ret since 7.0 and just holding out for hopes that we'd eventually get somewhere. I am now under the impression that until 8.0 and a full new-expac rework Blizzard is just too afraid to screw around with our spec and its dependance on Crusade is a huge factor in that; they don't want to break the one talent that makes us even remotely competitive.

I do hope they can keep this playstyle though. The deliberatness and "feel" of the rotation wasn't bad at all for me anyway, but just offered very little in terms of output, especially for Single-Target situations. I think the low-RNG of it was a good thing, but it had other issues that made our output sub-par. I'd like 8.0 to be an improvement on our 7.0 rework rather than a full breakdown amd rebuild of the spec.

[Sett]

Finally, last question, what's your 8.0 prediction or even hopes for the spec? Do you see a return to MoP/WoD gameplay, or just a refined version of our current Colossus Smash 2.0 gameplay with better options than Crusade-only?

At least make an attempt to move away from holy power. The spec feels like it is rolling around in molasses unless we have Crusade up. I also dislike the CS-style thing we have going on as well.

[jackofwind]

Doesn't matter to me, I've hung up my golden armor permanently and embraced the path of shadow.

Warlock is so much more rewarding to play than Ret. It's been a long time coming, but I'm no longer willing to struggle with it.

[xxcloud417xx]

Doesn't matter to me, I've hung up my golden armor permanently and embraced the path of shadow.

Warlock is so much more rewarding to play than Ret. It's been a long time coming, but I'm no longer willing to struggle with it.

Yeah, that's the issue, everything else feels rewarding and Ret doesn't. It's been the opposite really, I get new loot, I still suck compared to any other class who could also use that same item. I have a Frost DK and an Arms Warrior that I considered playing instead but like I have all the Ret Legendaries and this guy's been my main since TBC. It's not easy for me to just say "fuck this" and swap. It's also not that I dislike the gameplay, but like you said it's the reward for playing it that just leaves much to be desired. I think the best example of how it's such an unrewarding class to play also is when you get this massive ilvl upgrade that is still just not good for you because it has some Mastery on it. Nothing worse than being unable to get stronger unless the RNG gods are very very kind to you.

I'm really hoping that 8.0 Mastery will be changed to make things truly ilvl > secondary stats. Not just for Ret really, but for any class, that should be the case. Going from 905 to 930 in a slot shouldn't be a downgrade. I shouldn't get to my weekly cache and be annoyed for weeks straight that I'm vendoring Mastery gear.

[jackofwind]

Yeah, that's the issue, everything else feels rewarding and Ret doesn't. It's been the opposite really, I get new loot, I still suck compared to any other class who could also use that same item. I have a Frost DK and an Arms Warrior that I considered playing instead but like I have all the Ret Legendaries and this guy's been my main since TBC. It's not easy for me to just say "fuck this" and swap. It's also not that I dislike the gameplay, but like you said it's the reward for playing it that just leaves much to be desired. I think the best example of how it's such an unrewarding class to play also is when you get this massive ilvl upgrade that is still just not good for you because it has some Mastery on it. Nothing worse than being unable to get stronger unless the RNG gods are very very kind to you.

I'm really hoping that 8.0 Mastery will be changed to make things truly ilvl > secondary stats. Not just for Ret really, but for any class, that should be the case. Going from 905 to 930 in a slot shouldn't be a downgrade. I shouldn't get to my weekly cache and be annoyed for weeks straight that I'm vendoring Mastery gear.

I totally get it - Ret has been my main since TBC as well after switching over from Priest. I was sad to make the switch, I love Paladins and my Ret has grinded out old reputations and legendaries and has a ton of raiding history on it.Every expansion I've gone through the feeling of being second-rate, and always feeling like there's a big golden anchor holding me back. Eventually I just had to move on for the sake of not being frustrated with the game.

[Deleted]

Yes, ever since beta i knew that and said so. The redesign was horrible and made the spec lose much of it's appeal.

Though i'm enjoying ring of the highlord+cape with 3HP blade. It actually manages to be fun to me. Not nearly as good as WoD Ret, but it's something.

But i have high hopes that the next xpac fixes many of the legion problems and can only be better.

[Deleted]

WoD been a pain as well relyin on a small window lke sera to unleash some damage stoppin everything 4-5 secs before to have generators ready for sera window. So again judge/buff same shit only duration changed the way ic it.
Not a big fun but anyways using generators to build resource to cast spenders during a buff window seems legit but the way implemented is a clusterfuck with generators sitting there waiting spenders clushing with gems for a spot in that buff window etcetcetc.
They cannot fix this ( I mean they have not fixed the bug where ypoyur initial judge can reward a hopo how about doing serious work).
Future: Fix the gameplay so that it makes sense. Give some better mobility. Somehow utilize mana for speed, offheal , group cds etc. Remove passive.
BRING BACK HAMMER OF WRATH

[Deleted]

they don't want to break the one talent that makes us even remotely competitive.

in what alternative reality do u smoke?

bzzd nerfed crusade 7.1 cuz DP is underperforming...
bzzd nerfed WotA relics 7.3

bzzd stated 7.1 that they dont like Crusade at all and want ret to get away from crusade.

[xxcloud417xx]

in what alternative reality do u smoke?

bzzd nerfed crusade 7.1 cuz DP is underperforming...
bzzd nerfed WotA relics 7.3

bzzd stated 7.1 that they dont like Crusade at all and want ret to get away from crusade.

Yep, and they have nerfed it slightly everytime and it's still the only talent choice for us. They've said they don't like it, and yet they also have clearly shown that they aren't in any capacity able to remove it outright or make any drastic changes to it because that would cripple the spec. So my point stands, they aren't touching it very much or in any significant way because the spec basically revolves around it.

[Titans]

I like the holy power system, but I don't think that it has good synergy with a colossus smash debuff style of play (the current judgment debuff). This comment will be very similar to many others i've posted both here and on the blizzard forums, but I strongly dislike the current playstyle. I think the judgment redesign was a mistake, the rotation was overly simplified with no variation based on single target or aoe, and that our cooldown doesn't vary that beyond things hitting harder and slightly faster.

I loved the talent balance in MoP, there were many points where divine purpose, holy avenger, and sanctified wrath all simmed very close to each other, so people could choose based on whether they wanted burst, rng, more ranged attacks via hammer of wrath during wings, etc. It brought variety while staying balanced. WoD took that to a further level which was also enjoyable, the synergy between those choices and the new ones (especially final verdict) made for a playstyle that rewarded good decision making while allowing choice for those who wanted it.

I have mained ret for many years, and was one of the few who stuck through it with the major revamp in legion prepatch. I am glad that they have moved on from some of the simpler mistakes such as having divine intervention and our only movement cd on the same talent tier (e.g. making steed baseline). I also liked the shift from hammer of the righteous to divine hammer, not needing a target in front of us to do aoe was a positive change. So the changes haven't been all bad. But we lost our execution ability, we lost several holy power generators, and we lost the dps talent choices that simmed comparably yet varied the rotation in unique ways. We also lost mobility options (having 0 baseline at expac launch, and currently mobility and survivability are on the same talent tier). And we gained the judgment debuff (colossus smash) playstyle, despite the heavily criticism when fury warriors had it during MoP. Overall what the spec lost was more than what it gained, both in terms of choice and interesting rotation. Legion ret was a negative change that I hope is reverted or different for next expansion.

[Deleted]

What are you talking about? We got the Ashbringer! That means we can't complain ever again

[Morally Grey Storm]

What's with the sausage fest?
Aren't Paladins the Epitome of Paragon of Impeccable Pristine Balance?
Aren't you guys happy and content with being mediocre middle of the middle of the mediocrity?

[Deleted]

I like it; so no we cannot.

[Shelly]

I only touched Crusade once as a test for the mage tower. Hated it, went back to DP with no problem at all.

Love ret, love having gone haste/mastery on my build too. Everything hits like a truck and the T20 4p just makes it even better.

That being said I am definitely on the low end of the raiding scale, but whenever I see one of these threads I can't help but think to myself that if you're finding it boring you're playing it wrong.

[Zabatakis]

Honestly, I think it comes down to corporate influence. It's not worth the investment to make the spec compelling, probably some bean counter telling a dev that rets who don't like the playstyle or numbers will just reroll and he should focus his attention on cash shop mounts.

So very few specs in this game have any vision or direction. I feel like ret has some sort of hybrid tax bill they are still paying from BC days.

- - - Updated - - -

What's with the sausage fest?
Aren't Paladins the Epitome of Paragon of Impeccable Pristine Balance?
Aren't you guys happy and content with being mediocre middle of the middle of the mediocrity?

Heh, its better than WW at least.

[GreenJesus]

The problem is that it is just feels very button mashy. Crusade window is mash the buttons 45% faster. thats it. That is the spec. There is no deeper gameplay. AW used to change up the gameplay and rotation with hammer of wrath thrown in.

[Venziir]

I miss some core abilities, that's for sure. Like Hammer of Wrath or even the Guardian of Ancient Kings, which Ret only had for a few years anyways, but still!

[Gracin]

Heh, its better than WW at least.

And yet, the playstyle for WW is actually decent compared to ret.

[Kuriyama]

Unless Blizzard pull a U-turn and give us back Exorcism, Hammer of Wrath, Speed of Light and Empowered Divine Storm then I'll probably be shelving my Paladin. I went through EN as Ret and it was fine. NH felt under-whelming because CoF got nerfed through the ground just for us, meanwhile Hunters were like "LOL LOOK AT MY TRUESHOT UPTIME". Okay.

They would honestly have to pull something BIG out of the hat for 8.0 to keep me as Ret. The spec has felt horrible throughout the whole of ToS and it's only bearable because of the T20 4P. Once BoW/DH goes back to being 2HP, you'll all hate it again.

Somehow our raid team has ended up with only two mail wearers and 7 plate wearers. Tempted to try Hunter. I've played Shaman. Elemental was my fave spec but it's always been treated like shit. Not too interested in Enhancement either. And the less said about me and healing, the better.

[BlakeArt]

I just like Ret, the spec answers my every wishes and that's good enough for me. i wouldn't play another class in any way.

If you feel like ret doesn't make you feel good or it's gameplay suck for you, there is tons of others specs in the game that might suit you better, i can understand you played the class for a very long time but who doesn't, what does that even mean ? Play something you like or be sad waiting for something that might (and probably) never happens.