Netherlight Crucible - disappointed

[RuneDK]

But one you have to leave raid to make use of! On a completely unrelated topic, why was Reforging removed from the game again?

ultimately they felt with the removal of hit/expertise that people would just reforge to their top stat and they didn't think it was worthwhile having anymore. I completely disagree with them, but it's their game. Reforging actually enticed me to take gear that wasn't my bis items. Now I don't bother with it.

[Jaylock]

Yeah, and it sort of does that, but as a consequence increases the difference between bad and good relics even more, which is not a good tradeoff. It doesn't only affect bad relics, it affects all relics.

What exactly is your point? I mean for real, please tell me what your point is in saying all that.

Scenario:

I get a relic with a trait that increases my life leech (considered bad for DPS purposes)

1) I use it on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices is a BIS trait for me.

2) I use it again on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices gives me my second BIS trait for me.

That relic is now not a bad relic, in fact its actually REALLY good now.

Do the math man.

[Trend]

And the best fact is that rolling 3x the bis option on 3 relics is going to be 20 item levels better (MINIMUM) per class, than the second option.

Where are you getting that 20 ilvl number from? According to the pre-nerf sims on wowhead for affliction lock (http://www.wowhead.com/affliction-wa...artifact-guide) the difference is a fraction of what you're saying. And the nerfs should make the differences even smaller.

Even if by "second option" you mean the worst possible option, for some classes, at least, I think you are overstating the impact.

[RuneDK]

Yep, yet another layer of RNG.

the worst part is.....imagine an unholy DK that got VP/darkest crusade traits on all his relics...Meanwhile you're stuck with the whole crapfest cause rng....

[Mercane]

But one you have to leave raid to make use of! On a completely unrelated topic, why was Reforging removed from the game again?

So they could put the Netherlight Crucible on a store mount, why else?

[Tradu]

What exactly is your point? I mean for real, please tell me what your point is in saying all that.

Scenario:

I get a relic with a trait that increases my life leech (considered bad for DPS purposes)

1) I use it on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices is a BIS trait for me.

2) I use it again on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices gives me my second BIS trait for me.

That relic is now not a bad relic, in fact its actually REALLY good now.

Do the math man.

Yeah, and compared to the relic that got BiS trait baseline, in T2 and in T3(technically 2nd BiS, but BiS of the remaining traits), it's still shit.
People have done the math, it's not an improvement. Also, that's relying on RNG to get those results, in most cases you won't and the relic will still be shit, which also means relics with BiS baseline trait can now become fairly shit, whereas before they were guaranteed to be BiS.

[SirCowdog]

What exactly is your point? I mean for real, please tell me what your point is in saying all that.

Scenario:

I get a relic with a trait that increases my life leech (considered bad for DPS purposes)

1) I use it on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices is a BIS trait for me.

2) I use it again on the netherlight crucible and one of the 3 choices gives me my second BIS trait for me.

That relic is now not a bad relic, in fact its actually REALLY good now.

Do the math man.

And all the other times when the RNG doesn't result in a BiS choice?

[Tradu]

Where are you getting that 20 ilvl number from? According to the pre-nerf sims on wowhead for affliction lock (http://www.wowhead.com/affliction-wa...artifact-guide) the difference is a fraction of what you're saying. And the nerfs should make the differences even smaller.

Even if by "second option" you mean the worst possible option, for some classes, at least, I think you are overstating the impact.

Casters generally don't have very big swings between traits compared to melees. Especially some of the melees that don't scale off weapon damage very well(WW being a good example). There's plenty of melees where the best trait is worth 20 relic ilevels(many are worth much more than that)

[Jaylock]

Yeah, and compared to the relic that got BiS trait baseline, in T2 and in T3(technically 2nd BiS, but BiS of the remaining traits), it's still shit.
People have done the math, it's not an improvement.

No its fucking not. Get off your high horse. Its still a really good relic and preferable to only a relic that has one trait (before the netherlight crucible) that is bad for your spec.

Again it potentially takes a bad relic and turns it into a good relic. End of story. And if you dispute that, i'm sorry, i'm not sure what else to tell you other than the facts.

[Tradu]

No its fucking not. Get off your high horse. Its still a really good relic and preferable to only a relic that has one trait (before the netherlight crucible) that is bad for your spec.

Again it potentially takes a bad relic and turns it into a good relic. End of story. And if you dispute that, i'm sorry, i'm not sure what else to tell you other than the facts.

Yes, it potentially takes a bad relic and makes it better. It also takes already good relics and very likely makes them much worse relative to the best possible version than in the past. Not sure what "high horse" you're even talking about.

[cparle87]

But one you have to leave raid to make use of! On a completely unrelated topic, why was Reforging removed from the game again?

Because they wanted you to get loot and be able to slap it right on, not have to leave raid to reforge everything to meet your hit/exp caps.

[epLe]

RNG is a base mechanic in all RPGs, also mmorpg.
This has been the case since dices in pre-computer based RPG (D&D), and RNG is the computer equivalent.

Just as sure as RNG always will be there -layer upon layer, whiners will always whine for every poor roll they make.

[CthulhuFhtagn]

Sounds terrible, I'll just be using it on whatever relics have the highest ilvl. Stats and BiS traits don't get you into pugs afterall.

Yeah, my thought exactly. It sounds like a shitty system, but not one that will affect casual raiders in any meaningful way. Feel bad for the min/maxers though.

[Jaylock]

Yes, it potentially takes a bad relic and makes it better. It also takes already good relics and very likely makes them much worse relative to the best possible version than in the past. Not sure what "high horse" you're even talking about.

So whats your point?

If you had a good relic to begin with, what does it matter if a second trait on that relic is "bad" or not? Please do enlighten me Tradu, seeing as how you have "already done the math."

[Tradu]

RNG is a base mechanic in all RPGs, also mmorpg.
This has been the case since dices in pre-computer based RPG (D&D), and RNG is the computer equivalent.

Just as sure as RNG always will be there -layer upon layer, whiners will always whine for every poor roll they make.

There's degrees of RNG. Legion has gone full retard on RNG, where previous expansions had somewhat reasonable systems(with Cata/T14 being the best system yet)

[Trend]

Casters generally don't have very big swings between traits compared to melees. Especially some of the melees that don't scale off weapon damage very well(WW being a good example). There's plenty of melees where the best trait is worth 20 relic ilevels(many are worth much more than that)

Guy said 20 ilvl MINIMUM between best and second best option. So we can agree that's wrong. So can you point to a specific sim that shows a 20 ilvl difference between best and second best options? Or we just pulling numbers out of the air to justify our rage?

[Tradu]

So whats your point?

If you had a good relic to begin with, what does it matter if a second trait on that relic is "bad" or not? Please do enlighten me Tradu, seeing as how you have "already done the math."

Except it's no longer a good relic, that's the point. It's now yet another shit relic, because getting 3/3 good traits is extremely unlikely(and 3/3 is what matters)

[Jaylock]

There's degrees of RNG. Legion has gone full retard on RNG, where previous expansions had somewhat reasonable systems(with Cata/T14 being the best system yet)

Also can i ask you an honest question?

Why do you think it is MANDATORY that all 3 traits on a relic be BIS? Whos forcing you / putting a gun to your head saying that you must get 3 bis traits?

[Tradu]

Also can i ask you an honest question?

Why do you think it is MANDATORY that all 3 traits on a relic be BIS? Whos forcing you / putting a gun to your head saying that you must get 3 bis traits?

Because it's not fun to have mediocre gear in every slot just because some blatant, year long troll on MMOC can be happy. The only thing that matters is getting the best possible version of an item, and NLC makes that much less likely than the already way too unlikely scenario pre-NLC, because it's now titanforge bullshit and 2 NLC-specific extra RNG rolls(and that's ignoring the RNG in which paths the traits roll in)

Because, you know, games are meant to be fun, and having a million layers of RNG between you and the fun ruins it entirely.

[Galbrei]

Because they wanted you to get loot and be able to slap it right on, not have to leave raid to reforge everything to meet your hit/exp caps.

Yes guys, I know why it was removed, the question was a joke, a sarcastic remark on how the current integration of the Netherlight Crucible deafeats Blizzard's own internal logic. I keep forgetting subtlety has no place in these forums...