Netherlight Crucible - disappointed

[Deleted]

It will even out relics by adding the second trait. It's a good thing.

A bis trait x3 and a bis netherlight crucible option x3 and bis relic x3 will still be worth more than 20 item levels compared to second best. Comparing it to the worst option it's nearly 70 item levels. I'm not really sure this system fixes anything in fact it makes the best from worst even larger than before.

[jackofwind]

Man I miss the days of scrolling through a loot table and just picking out what I needed to get for each slot for BiS.

WF, TF, and NC can all suck fat ones, bring me back the excitement of seeing Perdition's Blade finally drop.

[Tradu]

It will even out relics by adding the second trait. It's a good thing.

Yeah, and at the same time it massively increases the gap between the worst and the best relics. Like, it's actually idiotic how big the differences are for some classes. Prot paladin apparently has a T2 trait that's worth like 150 relic ilevels(and there's definitely classes with traits that are worth 20+ relic ilevels each, and each relic will now have up to 3 of them). It's a terrible system and I have no clue how it got through their design meetings.

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This is why organised raiding is killing organised raiding.

No, if anything is doing that, it's Blizzard's obsession with making every possible aspect of the game a RNG clusterfuck(not that I'm convinced that organized raiding is "dying")

[clevin]

That was one part, but the bigger part was that it doesn't actually improve the game experience. There are still soft caps for some stats, but ultimately Reforging just didn't provide any engaging gameplay to get an item and then reforge it to whatever your best stat is based on a sim or recommendation from a website. That's not creating engaging gameplay. If the desire for Reforging is based on "I'd like to make my items better by picking the stats I want more." the simpler answer there, and the one that does create engaging gameplay and interaction with the game world and other players, is "Get better items".

IN other words... "back on the wheel, hamsters!" And if they bias the loot drops so that the optimal stat items are less likely to drop, you can play EVEN LONGER!

[Jaylock]

Yep, yet another layer of RNG.

it actually unravels a layer of RNG because the relic can contain 3 other traits that you get to choose from, so chances are you can get a shit relic but have your BIS relic trait that you actually pick from the netherlight crucible.

Facts are facts.

[Socialhealer]

Man I miss the days of scrolling through a loot table and just picking out what I needed to get for each slot for BiS.

WF, TF, and NC can all suck fat ones, bring me back the excitement of seeing Perdition's Blade finally drop.

agreed, this diablo 3 loot can go to hell.

i don't care about farming primal ancient legendary perfect max roll best secondaries rolls fuckfest rng.

[xcess]

They should let people change their path if they make a mistake. But yeah this just makes ppl trade less stuff

[kamuimac]

So the most important feature of 7.3 is now out and simply put...

I'm bummed that this went live. It's not fun, it's more simming/calculations/etc than reforging ever was (but somehow the same reasons reforging was removed don't apply here to a major feature?). I've spent much of today explaining to friends, guildies, etc., how it works because it's unnecessarily complicated and definitely not straightforward. As a foundational character feature, it hasn't been well-explained--which might explain why so many people are confused (even after reading fansites/guides) as to how it exactly works.

It's RNG that wasn't necessary and nobody wanted. Unbelievable that after all the complaints about how they have gone overboard with RNG this expansion, they add MORE layers to it.

Nobody wants to "invest" in non-throughput traits. It's even worse when they're "forced."

I'm struggling to think of a reason to defend this feature and I can't. Perhaps it is like that on purpose? Just to stretch out that /played, right.

blizzard is clearly pushing WoW into Diablo design direction - im convinced it is definetly conneected to all big names like Metzen leacing blizz some time ago - they simply knew where the game will go from now on and didnt want to take part but for 1000% were bind by NDA when leaving so couldnt talk about it.

anyone expecting 8.0 to not have ton more rng then legion is naive at best

Reforging was removed from the game because we aren't allowed to have ANY control anymore.

It all has to be RNG to keep you on the teadmill.

They can't have us working towards an item we know is an upgrade via Justice/Valor points.

They can't let us apply 2 levels of upgrades to an item to try and offset unlucky RNG on war/titanforge.

They can't let us reforge some stats to ones we need because we got unlucky with shit RNG.

It's all about removing CONTROL.

but its working since hamsters run on hamster wheel and keep subbing - its clearly working financial model - the only way people could fight it would be by mass unssubbing - if suddenly 1-2 mln would leave game for 2-3 months devs would have no choice but to listen.

Yeah, and at the same time it massively increases the gap between the worst and the best relics. Like, it's actually idiotic how big the differences are for some classes. Prot paladin apparently has a T2 trait that's worth like 150 relic ilevels(and there's definitely classes with traits that are worth 20+ relic ilevels each, and each relic will now have up to 3 of them). It's a terrible system and I have no clue how it got through their design meetings.

the answear to this is simple - their internal tuning team absolutely sucks - my bet is those are kids (adoults ofc duh) of senior devs who couldnt find real job so parents who work for blizz put them to play and "test " game as their "job" -i dont see any other reason why they would be so bad at their job and werent all fired.

[Alvito]

The relics I have in my main weapon all got great options. My off spec wpn, is junk though.

[Tradu]

it actually unravels a layer of RNG because the relic can contain 3 other traits that you get to choose from, so chances are you can get a shit relic but have your BIS relic trait that you actually pick from the netherlight crucible.

Facts are facts.

Yes, and at the same time that massively increases variance in relic power, because all of that is random. It's not like the T3 trait replaces the default trait, you get both of them as well as the T2 trait, meaning getting good ones in all 3 random tiers(T0, T2 and T3) makes a massive difference.

[Tradu]

The relics I have in my main weapon all got great options. My off spec wpn, is junk though.

Well, "luckily" for you you probably won't get to pick those offspec traits any time soon anyway, because the artifact level required for unlocking is weapon specific.

[Trend]

Yeah, and at the same time it massively increases the gap between the worst and the best relics. Like, it's actually idiotic how big the differences are for some classes. Prot paladin apparently has a T2 trait that's worth like 150 relic ilevels

In fairness though, the huge ilvl upgrades for prot paladins are for offense, and those same great traits are generally crap for what a prot paladin would be played competitively for: defense.

[Deleted]

it actually unravels a layer of RNG because the relic can contain 3 other traits that you get to choose from, so chances are you can get a shit relic but have your BIS relic trait that you actually pick from the netherlight crucible.

Facts are facts.

And the best fact is that rolling 3x the bis option on 3 relics is going to be 20 item levels better (MINIMUM) per class, than the second option.

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Yeah, and at the same time it massively increases the gap between the worst and the best relics. Like, it's actually idiotic how big the differences are for some classes. Prot paladin apparently has a T2 trait that's worth like 150 relic ilevels(and there's definitely classes with traits that are worth 20+ relic ilevels each, and each relic will now have up to 3 of them). It's a terrible system and I have no clue how it got through their design meetings.

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No, if anything is doing that, it's Blizzard's obsession with making every possible aspect of the game a RNG clusterfuck(not that I'm convinced that organized raiding is "dying")

Paladins do not have a trait thats 150 item levels in worth, the highest is most likely brm with facepalm relics valued at 52 item levels.

[Jaylock]

Yes, and at the same time that massively increases variance in relic power, because all of that is random. It's not like the T3 trait replaces the default trait, you get both of them as well as the T2 trait, meaning getting good ones in all 3 random tiers(T0, T2 and T3) makes a massive difference.

who the fuck cares? The point of the system is to allow you to potentially turn a bad relic into a good one by getting the trait you want on the T2, and / or T3.

[Tradu]

Paladins do not have a trait thats 150 item levels in worth, the highest is most likely brm with facepalm relics valued at 52 item levels.

It's one of the T2 NLC traits, not a weapon trait.

[Nekosom]

Not to be the contrarian, but isn't the point of an MMO to grind? To constantly be in search of that thing you will never truly obtain? I think the game's kind of hit a nice stride, in that lapsed players never feel too far behind, while dedicated players never quite hit that wall of progression. I say this as someone who's never been one of those dedicated players, so maybe I'm wrong here, but isn't this what you guys wanted? They will never be able to provide enough content to keep dedicated players busy, so they have to cheat somewhere. And for a glorified fidget spinner, I think they've gotten pretty good at it. Again though, I say this as someone who doesn't even remotely care about min-maxing, so I have difficulty understanding that perspective. Am I wrong here?

[Jaylock]

And the best fact is that rolling 3x the bis option on 3 relics is going to be 20 item levels better (MINIMUM) per class, than the second option.

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Paladins do not have a trait thats 150 item levels in worth, the highest is most likely brm with facepalm relics valued at 52 item levels.

again who the fuck cares? The system was designed so that it could make any relic a good relic by giving you a potential BIS trait when using the netherlight crucible on it.

[Tradu]

who the fuck cares? The point of the system is to allow you to potentially turn a bad relic into a good one by getting the trait you want on the T2, and / or T3.

Yeah, and it sort of does that, but as a consequence increases the difference between bad and good relics even more, which is not a good tradeoff. It doesn't only affect bad relics, it affects all relics.

[Jaylock]

Except that it's RNG whether you'll get those traits at all.

Why did this system need ANY RNG at all? After a whole expansion of RNG filled mess they just couldn't help themselves could they?

For once in your life, stop trolling.

Zero control.

Wrong.

They give you 3 choices and you get to choose one of them each tier down the netherlight crucible. Please get off your high horse with that RNG shit, yes there is rng to the 3 choices, but its more choice than you had before the system, because guess what *GASP* the system didn't exist until today!

[Tradu]

again who the fuck cares? The system was designed so that it could make any relic a good relic by giving you a potential BIS trait when using the netherlight crucible on it.

And it'll now be much worse when compared to a relic that got BiS traits in all 3 tiers(because it's missing 2 tiers of good traits, meaning in the end it's still 1/3rd as good as the BiS one, instead of being maybe half as good before NLC got added)