WoW: The RPG Without Customization

[Eleccybubb]

The main problem with Wildstar isn't the game systems but that the world is bland and boring as all hell.

World was fine. Their choice of catering was part of the reason. The poor optimization of the launch was another factor. I had a GTX 660 at the time and I was getting 30 FPS in a wide open zone.

As for F2P. They are being plagued with terrible advertising and launching their content alongside big game launches.

[cparle87]

Except for the part that it is.... the fuck you think an rpg is supposed to be?

Be careful. Guy on the last patch posted the definition of RPG and got yelled at. Facts make these people angry.

[Alydael]

Loved your post.
I always like to be different and to have a unique identity. I hate to idea to be equal to everyone else of the same class.
I like to explore all the different builds possible and come up with my own stuff.
But Blizzard is all like [ATTENTION: Acts of Self-Expression are forbidden]

The sad thing is that Blizzard used to take some chances. When the DK first launched- you could tank or dps with any spec (depending on talents you took). For w/e reason (probably balance) they quickly stopped that. I thought it was a good approach though. It made think of how WOW might be if they did away with the "specs" and your role was solely based on talent choices.

If you like experimenting with different builds and trying things out (and you haven't played already), GW 2 does a good job of customization. There are tons of different combos to try.

[Deleted]

If you like experimenting with different builds and trying things out (and you haven't played already), GW 2 does a good job of customization. There are tons of different combos to try.

I still play Guild Wars 2 because of that
PvP in GW2 is pretty much a party for creativity with many many viable possibilities.
You feel like an artist coming up with your own Talents/Gems/Stats/Weapons

It's like playing a MOBA but in a MMORPG.

[Echocho]

World was fine. Their choice of catering was part of the reason. The poor optimization of the launch was another factor. I had a GTX 660 at the time and I was getting 30 FPS in a wide open zone.

As for F2P. They are being plagued with terrible advertising and launching their content alongside big game launches.

Yes but the reason wildstar failed wasn't because of the endgame systems, the majority of the players quit well before that which indicates that it simply wasn't a good game. A game is the sum of all its parts, and the fact was that it didn't add up to much being excited about and you quickly realized that, probably before lvl30.

[Deleted]

Wow stopped being an mmorpg with cataclysm

[ryanmahaffe]

I don't consider terrible pointlessly long talent trees real customization when there were only 1 or two ways you could do it, you can still customize the current talent tree even though you should probably just stick with the good one, exactly like the old system with less fluff. Glyphs and Gems for the most part felt like another form of progression, wow doesn't need
Talents
Gear
Artifact
Glyph
Gem

as all ways to progress you character, I call that progression bloat and it is one off my bigger issues with some other mmos like Wildstar (Gear, Matrix, Runes, Amps, Ability points, etc)
I do agree that Wow is less of an rpg that it use to be, but to the people saying it isn't an RPG anymore, you are wrong.

[ldev]

Lol talent trees are better than current talent tree. Go play Lineage 2.

[Sanguinerd]

Well this is the result of Blizzard listening to the raiding minority. The entire game changed for their benifit including alot of RPG elements.

I doubt Ion having that raiding mentality is gonna help us get some fun back either.

I miss my full speed nitro boost DAMNIT.

[Gimlix]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.

• Was it really necessary to remove all types of customization from the game just because "there is always a cookie cutter build for single target PvE"?
  
• What about coming up with crazy new stuff that, if not optimal, it could be the gameplay you enjoy the most?
  
• Isn't "Customization" essential for a good RPG experience?

Anyway, i know we are way past that point and customization is never coming back strong (Netherlight Crucible, just a little taste) I just wanted to know if anyone else feels as sad as me on this topic.

Don't bother making this thread. Most of the users on here are already casualized into wanting a less fun game.
MMORPG's have changed for good due the new playerbase. To those who do not wanna spend hours in dungeons and raids. Those who don't wanna make their own talent choices and to those who don't wanna walk forever to get to something.

The game is dumped down for good and no it is not good thing. But sadly WoW can never go back to the old ways, since we are all used to it by now.

Sadly. WoW is on a train to it's GY slowly. Mainly due the new playerbase changing the MMORPG genre into garbage.

[Kynario]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.

• Was it really necessary to remove all types of customization from the game just because "there is always a cookie cutter build for single target PvE"?
  
• What about coming up with crazy new stuff that, if not optimal, it could be the gameplay you enjoy the most?
  
• Isn't "Customization" essential for a good RPG experience?

Anyway, i know we are way past that point and customization is never coming back strong (Netherlight Crucible, just a little taste) I just wanted to know if anyone else feels as sad as me on this topic.

I really agree. It's one of THE main reasons why I've quit.

Hence why I love the Witcher 3 and the awesome customization options it has. Reminds me a lot of Vanilla/TBC.

[MyndZero]

I 100% agree and it boggles my mind why Blizzard chooses to constantly remove RPG elements from this game and turn it into an instance simulator more or less.

To touch on reforging for a second, a system I absolutely loved and I don't care what anyone else says or thinks on this topic because a single fact remains that the system was originally put into the game to give your bad loot drops a chance to become useful and actually be an upgrade. Now we a living in a world where even more stats got culled but even in this world as it is today, with even less stat choices the fact remains that it would still be useful in the exact same scenario as it was before. In fact, with us having even more loot options than ever before in the history of wow; reforging would be even more useful than ever before.

This was essentially an optional system, you did not have to engage it if you didn't want too and blizzard sort of disagrees with this, but more so claims it was more of a hassle because of how much you would need to play around with the system to see if you could create a set that results in an upgrade. For one, I say that's fine because it's an RPG after all (point of OP's thread) but secondly and more importantly, blizzard doesn't even agree with this themselves because they immediately after saying that came out with the nether light crucible which results in forcing you into using that system and checking if a relic is actually an upgrade or not before equipping because it may rng roll bad traits for you; which results in a way more frustrating system than reforging ever did in the past.

Do I fault blizzard for these changes they've made over the years, gutting the RPG out of WoW? Not really. I get it; they had to evolve with the times and the truth of the matter is that games are getting more and more simpler as the years go by so I can see why blizzard would follow that trend. I do however disagree with them going this direction because WoW and maybe even more importantly, mmorpg's are not these other games. They were born out of complexity, and it's that complexity that made this genre get so popular and I fundamentally believe that's how it should remain; you can make it easier to get into and that's perfectly fine but that shouldn't result in the core game getting dragged down to that same level.

[Gimlix]

I 100% agree and it boggles my mind why Blizzard chooses to constantly remove RPG elements from this game and turn it into an instance simulator more or less. .

it is actually quite logical why they do it. The new generation isn't interested in doing things themself. In having to make choices in what to pick. They want the easiest way to get good. They want it all handed to them without having to worry on what to pick etc.

Blizzard knows this is the biggest market players right now so they adept to them. Sadly, destroying the playerbase they have right now.

That is why WoW is dying faster and faster. New generation doesn't like Wow since it still takes a bit of time in doing things. They want to play 30 min long games and repeat.

Due to the changes, not only new ones leave as fast as they come but also the old ones leave faster as they come back.

[Echocho]

Do I fault blizzard for these changes they've made over the years, gutting the RPG out of WoW? Not really. I get it; they had to evolve with the times and the truth of the matter is that games are getting more and more simpler as the years go by so I can see why blizzard would follow that trend. I do however disagree with them going this direction because WoW and maybe even more importantly, mmorpg's are not these other games. They were born out of complexity, and it's that complexity that made this genre get so popular and I fundamentally believe that's how it should remain; you can make it easier to get into and that's perfectly fine but that shouldn't result in the core game getting dragged down to that same level.

Most modern gamers don't like RPGs with depth and complexity, they like loot. To get them to play your game sacrifices have to be made, otherwise profits won't be big enough.

[EternalBany]

yes!

the game was much more interesting when you had people coming up with new and funky ways to play the game. the early pvp videos were basically filled with interesting and cool mechanics. pvp videos died for a reason. the game is just not interesting in that aspect anymore. the game is no rpg anymore.

Everything changes.
Wow is slowly turning into a pve RPG singleplayer focused with an online component for world scale.
You will see that next expansion, it is going to be heavy on the single player progression, grind and story

[cparle87]

True, not many classes had the chance to be creative in WotlK. Specially classes with different specs (Healer, Tank DPS)
But imagine if they didn't stop developing on Talent Trees since Cataclysm. 11 years of ever growing talent trees and you could go hybrid.
We would have dozens of different ways to play the same class today.

It would be a party for creativity (and a nightmare to balance)

Yeah, I remember there were guys who were passing on their important 41-pointer like mutilate or mangle to get a 21-pointer in another tree they thought was funny.

[Deleted]

yes!

the game was much more interesting when you had people coming up with new and funky ways to play the game. the early pvp videos were basically filled with interesting and cool mechanics. pvp videos died for a reason. the game is just not interesting in that aspect anymore. the game is no rpg anymore.

are you serious? early pvps videos was jsut filled in one shots, either as a fire mage or shaman, that was not enjoyable to watch

[Gimlix]

are you serious? early pvps videos was jsut filled in one shots, either as a fire mage or shaman, that was not enjoyable to watch

And you are saying PvP right now is good? It is in a TERRIBLE no HORRIBLE if not DISASTERS state. It's a joke right now.

[Feali]

Just a simple example like removing Frostbolt from Fire/Arcane is why this new iteration of class design sucks.

[Florena]

-Removal of Hybrid Talents
-Removal of Talent Trees
-Removal of Gems in every piece of gear and Meta gem
-Removal of Glyphs
-Removal of Reforging
-PvP Templates
-Artifact Weapon (same skills for everyone)

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyone else feels sad about the fact that "Customization" is frowned upon by Blizzard?
Imagination, experimentation and testing are pretty much forbidden and replaced by a standard gameplay everyone must play.

The excuse of Blizzard is "there is always a cookie cutter build"
I agree that in PvE-single target damage there is always a "cookie cutter" build of "stand still and do the most DPS"
But for PvP and World Content...there are always a million different choices you can take to be optimal. (Utility, Survival, Burst, Hybrid etc)
I call bullcrap on this excuse and i say they removed customization because is just easier to balance the game from day one.

• Was it really necessary to remove all types of customization from the game just because "there is always a cookie cutter build for single target PvE"?
  
• What about coming up with crazy new stuff that, if not optimal, it could be the gameplay you enjoy the most?
  
• Isn't "Customization" essential for a good RPG experience?

Anyway, i know we are way past that point and customization is never coming back strong (Netherlight Crucible, just a little taste) I just wanted to know if anyone else feels as sad as me on this topic.

If you think WOW lacks customization never, ever play Final Fantasy XIV.