Student President of Georgia Tech's Pride Alliance shot and killed by Campus Police

[d00mGuArD]

Why not taser him first? Is using lethal force the only valid response to every hint of a threat?

The article says they negotiated with him for 10-15mins but he did not drop the knife. And still he advanced towards them with a knife after that long.
10-15 mins is plenty of time to drop a knife. There is no reason to start moving towards the police holding a knife, after they talk to you for so long.

It seems to me -based on the fact that he tried to commit suicide in the past- that he wanted to die. And by doing this type of suicide, his family will get money at same time from suing the police. This is called suicide by cops.

I may be wrong though and the person may have had serious mental health issues (which would still make him a threat)

[McFuu]

How about aiming and hitting the leg?

Yes, this is intentional. Our police doesn't shoot to kill, they shoot to incapasitate.

Our police shoot to incapacitate as well, death is a side effect of that incapacitation.

If your police choose to use a weapon solely meant for killing, to try for these stupid shots, good luck to them. When they miss, which I'm sure they have already plenty of times, and someone uninvolved gets struck by a stray, if it hasn't already happened either.

[tumppu]

Our police shoot to incapacitate as well, death is a side effect of that incapacitation.

If your police choose to use a weapon solely meant for killing, to try for these stupid shots, good luck to them. When they miss, which I'm sure they have already plenty of times, and someone uninvolved gets struck by a stray, if it hasn't already happened either.

That's just an excuse to say your cops are bad shots. As for "hitting bystanders", they had been negotiating with the guy for 10-15mins, so anyone close by had plenty of time to move or be moved away. This is just yet another example of lazy work by US cops.

Not that I'm defending the guy for being an idiot, btw. He advanced on armed cops saying "shoot me". He got his wish, so grats?

[ohiostate124]

That's just an excuse to say your cops are bad shots. As for "hitting bystanders", they had been negotiating with the guy for 10-15mins, so anyone close by had plenty of time to move or be moved away. This is just yet another example of lazy work by US cops.

Not that I'm defending the guy for being an idiot, btw. He advanced on armed cops saying "shoot me". He got his wish, so grats?

It's not lazy work. Maybe it's different in other countries but youre not trained to shoot to wound. If you have to use your weapon, you shoot for center mass to end the threat. I don't think people realize how quickly someone with a knife can close the distance. While you are taking the extra time to aim at a much smaller target, that could be the difference between life and death.

[Trollokdamus]

The article says they negotiated with him for 10-15mins but he did not drop the knife. And still he advanced towards them with a knife after that long.
10-15 mins is plenty of time to drop a knife. There is no reason to start moving towards the police holding a knife, after they talk to you for so long.

It seems to me -based on the fact that he tried to commit suicide in the past- that he wanted to die. And by doing this type of suicide, his family will get money at same time from suing the police. This is called suicide by cops.

I may be wrong though and the person may have had serious mental health issues (which would still make him a threat)

I see your point but still fail to understand what exactly prevented them from tasering him instead of opening fire. If I'm not mistaken, he started walking towards them, not running, so they should have had enough time to react in a different way.

[McFuu]

That's just an excuse to say your cops are bad shots. As for "hitting bystanders", they had been negotiating with the guy for 10-15mins, so anyone close by had plenty of time to move or be moved away. This is just yet another example of lazy work by US cops.

Not that I'm defending the guy for being an idiot, btw. He advanced on armed cops saying "shoot me". He got his wish, so grats?

Hollywood fiction. Handguns are difficult to use, very very few people are you enough to make shots on moving targets appendages. It's comically dangerous for all involved to try.

[Deleted]

Hollywood fiction. Handguns are difficult to use, very very few people are you enough to make shots on moving targets appendages. It's comically dangerous for all involved to try.

American ignorance, in Europe it is done all the time.

[McFuu]

American ignorance, in Europe it is done all the time.

European ignorance, just because you guys may do it, which I've yet to see it proven. Doesn't stop it from being a unnecessary risk.

[Deleted]

European ignorance, just because you guys may do it, which I've yet to see it proven. Doesn't stop it from being a unnecessary risk.

As soon as you learn to read another language then i can prove it to you, its not like everyone here writes in English just so English speakers can read it. But it does happen all the time and i've never heard anyone getting killed because of them missing, so not such an unnecessary risk.

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European ignorance, just because you guys may do it, which I've yet to see it proven. Doesn't stop it from being a unnecessary risk.

As soon as you learn to read another language then i can prove it to you, its not like everyone here writes in English just so English speakers can read it. But it does happen all the time and i've never heard anyone getting killed because of them missing, so not such an unnecessary risk.

[Dys]

As soon as you learn to read another language then i can prove it to you, its not like everyone here writes in English just so English speakers can read it. But it does happen all the time and i've never heard anyone getting killed because of them missing, so not such an unnecessary risk.

It's a false equivalency, at best. The police in America have to operate under the assumption that the perpetrator has a gun, whether it's confirmed or not, and is stupid enough to be willing to use it on anyone that gets in their way. That isn't a common theme that requires a proper response in Europe, gun violence seems to be pretty fucking rare over there. It's a daily thing here though, hourly in some parts. It's a very different atmosphere because of the gun culture.

A shot to the leg of an armed suspect stops him from running, but doesn't do a damn thing to stop him from firing back.

[Heladys]

It's a false equivalency, at best. The police in America have to operate under the assumption that the perpetrator has a gun, whether it's confirmed or not, and is stupid enough to be willing to use it on anyone that gets in their way. That isn't a common theme that requires a proper response in Europe, gun violence seems to be pretty fucking rare over there. It's a daily thing here though, hourly in some parts. It's a very different atmosphere because of the gun culture.

A shot to the leg of an armed suspect stops him from running, but doesn't do a damn thing to stop him from firing back.

Funny how for as long as america's been in existence people have had guns and yet it's only in the last 20-ish years that the police have needed to kill everyone to protect themselves.

[Tabrotar]

Here in Australia (or most other civilised locations)

Option 1: Tazer the kid, he goes down hard but doesn't die.
Option 2: Two presumably well trained (do cops do training in the US?) realise he has a tiny knife and there wearing vests and they tackle the idiot. Result, potential minor cuts to cops, kid probably gets a solid beat down but not dead.

Honestly what the fuck is wrong with the cops in your country, they all need there guns taken away from them

Yeah because a bulletproof west (please notice the word BULLET) is knifeproof... ther´re west that´re knifeproof but then they´re not bulletproof.

[Dystemper]

No police force trains Thier officer to shoot the legs or arms. That's just pure bullshit . I have worked with LEO from all over the world. How many of you had use of force training? Shooting the leg has a high chance of killing. Once the femoral artery is severed you bleed out in seconds. In a high stress life and death situation, shooting a leg is very very tricky with a hand gun and even for a sniper. Please stop spreading bullshit like you know what you are talking about.

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http://www.forcescience.org/fsnews/40.html

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https://www.leelofland.com/shoot-to-...es-the-answer/

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And the American police don't train to shoot to kill. They train to stop the threat.

[Easo]

Because tazers are not always effective. Because you dont confront someone willing to use lethal force with non lethal force. A person with a knife can cover 20 feet in a couple of seconds and stab you numerous times. Just because they are mentally unstable, does not give them a pass and allow them to threaten or kill someone. This is not the movies you never shoot to wound. That gets you dead . A leg shot has a 80% chacee to be fatal by severing the femoral artery `


There are all kinds of videos on the internet where LEO have been killed because a perp with a knife, or even unarmed, was able to get close enough to the officer and kill them because they tried to use non lethal means to deal with someone will to kill.

If I look at other countries, my own, even, then dead or even wounded LEO's are exceptions. Same goes for perps too, they tend to live.
So tell me, why there is this difference?

[Deleted]

Cases like this .. I do not get them.

According to what happened, a person armed with a melee weapon was asked to drop the weapon. Instead said person walks (not runs) towards the armed cop. The cop reacts by shooting blindly at the person.

I mean do not get me wrong, if the cop were in danger because an armed maniac is running at him then yes, it might happen by mistake that you kill that person. But THIS ... aren't cops trained to properly handle fire weapons? How is it, that those cases seem to end in a death most of the time? Really unnecessary if you ask me. Shoot at the leg if someone runs at you.

[Collegeguy]

As soon as you learn to read another language then i can prove it to you, its not like everyone here writes in English just so English speakers can read it. But it does happen all the time and i've never heard anyone getting killed because of them missing, so not such an unnecessary risk.

European ignorance not knowing that google translate exists for entire websites.

[Easo]

Cases like this .. I do not get them.

According to what happened, a person armed with a melee weapon was asked to drop the weapon. Instead said person walks (not runs) towards the armed cop. The cop reacts by shooting blindly at the person.

I mean do not get me wrong, if the cop were in danger because an armed maniac is running at him then yes, it might happen by mistake that you kill that person. But THIS ... aren't cops trained to properly handle fire weapons? How is it, that those cases seem to end in a death most of the time? Really unnecessary if you ask me. Shoot at the leg if someone runs at you.

Please note - that happens only in movies or in rare exceptions in real life (like that video with police marksman shooting pistol out of hand. A sitting guy's, mind you). Everyone everywhere is trained to shoot at the center of mass.
You cannot reliably hit someone in legs or arms, if you shoot with a gun, you shoot to kill.

However, with taser, IIRC (someone please correct me if wrong), while it was better to (again) hit the center of mass, the effect will be there wherever you manage to do it.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Funny how for as long as america's been in existence people have had guns and yet it's only in the last 20-ish years that the police have needed to kill everyone to protect themselves.

Do you really think cops have only been shooting people for 20 years? That's like saying mentel illness has only been a thing for 20 years just because it shows up in the media now doesn't mean it didn't happen in the past

[Dystemper]

Size of countries and population density, socioeconomic factors. You have had generations of people here in the USA taught by parents, teachers and politicians that the Police are your enemy and not to be trusted.

And now many Euro countries are having to re-evaluate tactics used by Thier LEO because if the threat of terrorism and the escalating violence. Look what happened to that French police officer gunned down during the Charlie Hebdo attack. They were not issued weapons.

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Cases like this .. I do not get them.

According to what happened, a person armed with a melee weapon was asked to drop the weapon. Instead said person walks (not runs) towards the armed cop. The cop reacts by shooting blindly at the person.

I mean do not get me wrong, if the cop were in danger because an armed maniac is running at him then yes, it might happen by mistake that you kill that person. But THIS ... aren't cops trained to properly handle fire weapons? How is it, that those cases seem to end in a death most of the time? Really unnecessary if you ask me. Shoot at the leg if someone runs at you.

http://www.those-who-serve.com/tag/knife-wounds/

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Tazers are not reliable against a person with a deadly weapon. They work ok on drunks, some one being disruptive . They don't work well in people wearing coats, loose clothing , on drugs, or amped up on adrenaline willing to harm it kill others. Take a look at knife wounds and see the damage they do. Then tell me if your willing to let a person with a blade get with in 20 feet of you.

[EyelessCrow]

Funny how for as long as america's been in existence people have had guns and yet it's only in the last 20-ish years that the police have needed to kill everyone to protect themselves.

What are two pieces of technology that everyone has now that most people didn't 20 years ago?