Speculation - Silithus: The Wound

[Combatbutler]

They may be too weak to do it on their own. But the Faceless Generals were kept locked away for just this reason. Actually, that's exactly where all the Faceless Ones come from in the first place, isn't it? They're unearthed from where they've been sealed away. From what has been described as their "Prison-Tombs", precisely because they do regenerate. Aqir have never been described to have their flesh continue to writhe or pulse after death, but Faceless Ones have.

Y'Shaarj was killed, just because his essence lingered does not mean he was still alive. It might be easier to resurrect old gods and void aligned beings, but I really wouldn't say they are sleeping they are dead, until their essence is once more stimulated, allowing them to return to this plane of existence.

Even continued whispers are no indication of being alive, since the dead in general can communicate with the living.

[Souflikar]

Pretty nice that his confirms that LITERALLY ALL leaks we've had have all been fake though.

No Veil of Shadows or bullshit like that, thank god.

No south seas expansion, no playable naga??? What will all the over-hyped speculating children do now?
Maybe learn to be patient.

[Techno-Druid]

this game's lore is becoming more and more of a joke as it is. i don't want a whole expansion of fucking pirate memes. that shit can die in a fire.

it was bad enough to deal with that stupid shit in the rogue order hall. pirates are literally the lamest shit there is.

I would personally prefer an expansion where we basically just recover. All races receiving equal focus and development, rebuilding, updating the racial questing zones, updating the capital cities (and giving players a reason to be in each city) and connecting Quel'thalas and Azuremyst to the rest of Azeroth.

[OIS]

this game's lore is becoming more and more of a joke as it is. i don't want a whole expansion of fucking pirate memes. that shit can die in a fire.

it was bad enough to deal with that stupid shit in the rogue order hall. pirates are literally the lamest shit there is.

Found the landlubber.

[KrakHed]

Y'Shaarj was killed, just because his essence lingered does not mean he was still alive. It might be easier to resurrect old gods and void aligned beings, but I really wouldn't say they are sleeping they are dead, until their essence is once more stimulated, allowing them to return to this plane of existence.

Even continued whispers are no indication of being alive, since the dead in general can communicate with the living.

No, I'm saying Y'Shaarj himself refers to his state as being "sleeping" and Xal'atath says "reawaken" rather than "resurrect".

I only sleep.

That suggests that they perceive death as a state similar to sleeping.

[derpkitteh]

I would personally prefer an expansion where we basically just recover. All races receiving equal focus and development, rebuilding, updating the racial questing zones, updating the capital cities (and giving players a reason to be in each city) and connecting Quel'thalas and Azuremyst to the rest of Azeroth.

that would be lovely. i would very much enjoy an expansion like that.

[Deleted]

that would be lovely. i would very much enjoy an expansion like that.

Yes, yes and yes again. We could use some break from threats and focus on the old world. Heck, I'd even revisit Outland to see how it goes after BC.

[Qualia]

You also do realise that the guy asking the question also said everything was "in theory" yeah? that the old gods were not "dead" so much as "dealt with" yeah? I swear some of you people are being dense just to be dense at times...

The theory that guy mentioned was the one brought up in WoTLK (which, I'd like to point out, isn't even true in canon anymore as the ToA was filled with corrupted data due to Loken's meddling), that "Excising parasites would result in loss of host-- <...> If they killed the Old Gods, Azeroth would've been destroyed...". The theory, "dealt with" and "down" have never meant to be...uh... imprison, weaken, or any state they are supposed to be in now from the OGs-are-alive crowd's claims. It flat-out stated "if they killed the Old Gods" in that theory there. You can't ignore the theory unless you are trying to twist the guy's question's meaning.

You also realise the cataclysm was caused by DEATHWITH as well yeah? It was the result of him essentially exploding out of Deepholm, causing volcanoes to form and erupt, oceans to flood the land and reshaping the face of the world as we knew it? All because N'zoth, the force behind Deathwing, ordered it? Technically, yes, the world "blew up" (if you can call that blowing up...) because of an old god, N'zoth, not the supposed death of the other 2. Hell, the answer to the previous question was straight up "You havn't seen who signs Deathwing's paychecks yet!". Nothing about the death of old gods whatsoever.

This was also addressed a dozen of times. The Cataclysm events started way BEFORE Deathwing even come back. It started before Lich King was even killed, for that matter, in form of the pre-event with earthquakes (that comes together with ICC, in other words, shortly after Yogg was killed) and much later the Elemental Unrest with elements going mad. It started months before Cata, even. Deathwing, as powerful as he was, wasn't so powerful that he could wrecking Azeroth without even being on the planet, or even the same dimension. The world was already weakened before he bursted back to Azeroth (and damaged the World Pillar in process). And yes, N'Zoth was behind Deathwing's actions. Still, so what? Did you miss that they was saying "Because of the Old Gods"? Old Gods in plural, not singular, my dear. There was a reason for me to put that character "s" in bold. Last time I checked, N'Zoth was still a single Old God. Am I somehow wrong and N'Zoth multiplied himself or something?

And the comic? Wellllll. A: it's canonicity is highly in question by even blizzard themselves and B: As has been demonstrated before in WoW, just because the physical body of something was killed, does not mean they are in any way dead, especially when it comes to old gods. (Particularly when you consider their direct inspiration) Unless we want to ignore the entirety of Legion...

So, all in all, canonically, their fate is entirely unknown. There is absolutely no conclusive evidence of them being outright DEAD dead or still alive. Now perhaps people can stop being toxic fucks and keep their headcanon out of things here.

First thing first, the comic is canon, as stated by Blizzard ("When something goes out the door at Blizzard—in a game, a novel, a manga, or anything other than mods or the table-top RPG—it's canon"). Afrasiabi even reaffirmed / clarified that all of the comics are still canon, with the exception of Me'dan being the Guardian (which doesn't matter here as Me'dan stopped being Guardian in the comics so he isn't Guardian), right before Legion so there isn't anything "in question".

In the demons' case, their immortality was stated specifically and they could reform on their own. The Old Gods haven't done so, neither have there been any sort of statement like that - except from Old Gods' followers, who aren't very trustworthy to begin with. Can be resurrected or can interact with the world even after death is NOT unique to OGs, and NOT a sign of immortality. Beings who are powerful enough can do that just fine. Otherwise, we'd have a bunch of immortal characters running around (i.e: MU Gul'dan who was only an orc). With that said, plus the fact that every little piece of information stated that they are dead (as linked in my previous post) - I'm not even counting the NPC's opinions as they can be unreliable, just the developers / omniscient narrators - they are just dead canonically for now. For someone who don't want people to be "toxic fucks" (wow, such polite language against "toxic" people who have been pretty civil!) and "keep their headcanon out of things here", you don't seem to be citing any official source (and even ignoring the quest text I mentioned). Sorry, but in-game information and Word of God are more canon than your or my own opinion. Give me any statement from Blizzard saying that they are still alive, and we can discuss further about it.

Their direct inspiration means nothing - especially now that they have been moving away from their original Lovecraft version. Being inspired by Lovecraftian beings doesn't mean they automatically inherit all the traits. In fact, they aren't even mysterious anymore: Chronicle established that they were just creation of the Void Lords (in Azeroth's cases, four or five out of... probably millions in the Universe?), being void energy given flesh and tossed around to be some sort of cosmic parasites. Not sure why you are even bringing Legion up - during the entirely of Legion, there has been no solid confirmation that Yogg / C'Thun aren't dead. Am I missing anything?

[zlygork]

You're not updated on lore.

Old god's death no longer cause damage, it was only because of aman'thul's power ripping y'shaarj out.

Last I heard, their death was somehow linked to the cataclysm, weakening the world pillar for deathwing to break, or whatnot.

[zlygork]

most likely going to be retconned, but we don't know yet.

Chronicle 3 will clear a lot of stuff up, even more than the first 2 probably.

Yeah, it will definetly be appreciated if it brings some consistency to the early lore of wow

[dlhak]

Come on ! All I see in the sands of Silithus is a giant Vagina ! probably Azeroth is about to give birth from its encounter with Argus !

[Combatbutler]

That suggests that they perceive death as a state similar to sleeping.

How they perceive death is rather meaningless though, since they are still dead. Fact is they are dead and need to be brought back, just like anything else, that died in the wow universe. The energy that Sargeras threw at Azeroth, might be enough to resurrect C'thun though.

[Techno-Druid]

that would be lovely. i would very much enjoy an expansion like that.

Things like leadership of the Darkspear (honestly think one of Vol'jin's children should be the one to it just based on logic, but I guess I would be alright with Rokhan taking leadership as long as they made him a fucking Chieftain and not some BS title like High Warlord), the retaking the Gnomeregan, the rebuilding of Pandaria which was wretched by the Legion, the reclamation of Kezan and Gilneas, etc need to be addressed.

I also think that would be a nice time to throw in two new playable races. Obviously if we're talking Horde then I think ogres would be the playable race to introduce since they're sort of the final piece in the Horde puzzle. I also like the idea of vrykul. Probably Stormheim(ic?) and not Northrend(ic?), the latter seems to way too far gone.

[Heladys]

I would personally prefer an expansion where we basically just recover. All races receiving equal focus and development, rebuilding, updating the racial questing zones, updating the capital cities (and giving players a reason to be in each city) and connecting Quel'thalas and Azuremyst to the rest of Azeroth.

How boring. Watch subs plummet through the floor.

[Wyattbw09]

One thing I find interesting is that nowhere in the new dialog or the notes is there any sort of implication that we are going to have to rid ourselves of our artifact weapons. Wounder if they changed their minds are we will take them with us to the next expansion.

[Zhinco]

This was already foreseen by Magni a while ago...

[zlygork]

One thing I find interesting is that nowhere in the new dialog or the notes is there any sort of implication that we are going to have to rid ourselves of our artifact weapons. Wounder if they changed their minds are we will take them with us to the next expansion.

I still see no mention about our Draenor Garrison being dismantled

[KrakHed]

How they perceive death is rather meaningless though, since they are still dead. Fact is they are dead and need to be brought back, just like anything else, that died in the wow universe. The energy that Sargeras threw at Azeroth, might be enough to resurrect C'thun though.

Need to be "brought" back is what I'm disputing. They can seemingly bring themselves back over time, if they're anywhere near as durable as their servants. Which may be why they were imprisoned by the Titans. Not because the Watchers didn't know how to keep punching them until they died, but because they didn't have any safe way to completely drain every bit of remaining power from them and knew that Old Gods would eventually recuperate on their own if they were allowed. Which is why Prison-Tombs are used. That's the most logical reason. It's easier to lock them away than it is to keep them dead.

[xwolf1989]

You also do realise that the guy asking the question also said everything was "in theory" yeah? that the old gods were not "dead" so much as "dealt with" yeah? I swear some of you people are being dense just to be dense at times...

You also realise the cataclysm was caused by DEATHWITH as well yeah? It was the result of him essentially exploding out of Deepholm, causing volcanoes to form and erupt, oceans to flood the land and reshaping the face of the world as we knew it? All because N'zoth, the force behind Deathwing, ordered it? Technically, yes, the world "blew up" (if you can call that blowing up...) because of an old god, N'zoth, not the supposed death of the other 2. Hell, the answer to the previous question was straight up "You havn't seen who signs Deathwing's paychecks yet!". Nothing about the death of old gods whatsoever.

And the comic? Wellllll. A: it's canonicity is highly in question by even blizzard themselves and B: As has been demonstrated before in WoW, just because the physical body of something was killed, does not mean they are in any way dead, especially when it comes to old gods. (Particularly when you consider their direct inspiration) Unless we want to ignore the entirety of Legion...

So, all in all, canonically, their fate is entirely unknown. There is absolutely no conclusive evidence of them being outright DEAD dead or still alive. Now perhaps people can stop being toxic fucks and keep their headcanon out of things here.

remember when ppl screamed their lungs out that we couldnt have demon hunter class because warlocks already had demon form and whatnot reasons? i remember! lets just wait and see... and probably laugh our asses off

[Daevelian]

The theory that guy mentioned was the one brought up in WoTLK (which, I'd like to point out, isn't even true in canon anymore as the ToA was filled with corrupted data due to Loken's meddling), that "Excising parasites would result in loss of host-- <...> If they killed the Old Gods, Azeroth would've been destroyed...". The theory, "dealt with" and "down" have never meant to be...uh... imprison, weaken, or any state they are supposed to be in now from the OGs-are-alive crowd's claims. It flat-out stated "if they killed the Old Gods" in that theory there.


This was also addressed a dozen of times. The Cataclysm events started way BEFORE Deathwing even come back. It started before Lich King was even killed, for that matter, in form of the pre-event with earthquakes (that comes together with ICC, in other words, shortly after Yogg was killed) and much later the Elemental Unrest with elements going mad. It started months before Cata, even. Deathwing, as powerful as he was, wasn't so powerful that he could wrecking Azeroth without even being on the planet, or even the same dimension. The world was already weakened before he bursted back to Azeroth (and damaged the World Pillar in process). And yes, N'Zoth was behind Deathwing's actions. Still, so what? Did you miss that they was saying "Because of the Old Gods"? Old Gods in plural, not singular, my dear. There was a reason for me to put that character "s" in bold. Last time I checked, N'Zoth was still a single Old God. Am I somehow wrong and N'Zoth multiplied himself or something?


First thing first, the comic is canon, as stated by Blizzard ("When something goes out the door at Blizzard—in a game, a novel, a manga, or anything other than mods or the table-top RPG—it's canon"). Afrasiabi even reaffirmed / clarified that all of the comics are still canon, with the exception of Me'dan being the Guardian (which doesn't matter here as Me'dan stopped being Guardian in the comics so he isn't Guardian), right before Legion so there isn't anything "in question".

In the demons' case, their immortality was stated specifically and they could reform on their own. The Old Gods haven't done so, neither have there been any sort of statement like that - except from Old Gods' followers, who aren't very trustworthy to begin with. Can be resurrected or can interact with the world even after death is NOT unique to OGs, and NOT a sign of immortality. Beings who are powerful enough can do that just fine. Otherwise, we'd have a bunch of immortal characters running around (i.e: MU Gul'dan who was only an orc). With that said, plus the fact that every little piece of information stated that they are dead (as linked in my previous post) - I'm not even counting the NPC's opinions as they can be unreliable, just the developers / omniscient narrators - they are just dead canonically for now. For someone who don't want people to be "toxic fucks" (wow, such polite language against "toxic" people who have been pretty civil!) and "keep their headcanon out of things here", you don't seem to be citing any official source (and even ignoring the quest text I mentioned). Sorry, but in-game information and Word of God are more canon than your or my own opinion. Give me any statement from Blizzard saying that they are still alive, and we can discuss further about it.

Their direct inspiration means nothing - especially now that they have been moving away from their original Lovecraft version. Being inspired by Lovecraftian beings doesn't mean they automatically inherit all the traits. In fact, they aren't even mysterious anymore: Chronicle established that they were just creation of the Void Lords (in Azeroth's cases, four or five out of... probably millions in the Universe?), being void energy given flesh and tossed around to be some sort of cosmic parasites.

Wow, you go off on a lot of tangents that bear nothing on the argument...

All i will say about your first paragraph is the whole "If" part. Man, i swear the self proclaimed lore geeks lack the brain power to comprehend a what if scenario...

Second paragraph, those earthquakes n such? they were all still from Deathwing, did you not see the friggin intro cinematic? As he was being "operated" on, having more plates attached, etc, he was causing quakes and floods just from reacting to having nails planted in his body. Elemental Unrest was straight up a response to all this throwing the elements into, well, unrest!. Like the response of animals sensing an impending earthquake in the real world.

And fun fact, the elemental planes are capable of directly effecting Azeroth, since they are kind of on Azeroth but not at the same time. The elemental planes were constructed by the keepers of Azeroth ages past to imprison the elementals. Some NPCs go so far as to describe it as the "core" of the world. Far be it for me to assume someone like Deathwing, the aspect of earth, hiding away in the elemental plane of earth, might actually influence the earth with his rage as he undergoes an operation then attempts to emerge.

https://wow.gamepedia.com/Elemental_Plane
https://wow.gamepedia.com/Deathwing

etc

Perhaps we will decide to ignore quotes from the 2 old god servants in Dragon Soul who refer to their master as Old Gods as well?

Yor'sahj the Unsleeping: You will drown in the blood of the Old Gods! ALL OF YOU

http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Yor%27sahj_the_Unsleeping

Thirdly, Me'dan's canonicity really still is up in the air. To use a direct reference...

"Though his role as Guardian is not considered canon, his existence is still up for debate, as Alex Afrasiabi states he could still make an appearance in some other capacity."

Still. Up. For. Debate.

Source: http://wowwiki.wikia.com/wiki/Med%27an

For the demons? my point was more that it was a concept that already exists in universe. But hey, if we wanna get in to it, go make an arms warrior and check out that artifact quest chain, it deals with a dead old god monster who is kept dead by having a sword impaled in its skull. Removing said sword brings it back to life. The premise already exists AND applies to old god oriented creatures.

Nothing has straight up said that they are DEAD dead, still waiting on a true source for that. No developer has straight up said they are dead, no narrator has said they are straight up dead. Nothing has, at all, said they are straight up dead. In fact, lets take it a step further. There is in game evidence that suggests Yogg'Saron is actually alive. Remember that event where Kadgar and Brann travel to Ulduar to speak with Magni?

And because you oh so graciously mentioned it, i decided to cite some sources! Your turn to cite something, and make sure it isn't some vague answer or outright incorrect / retconned please. I really do await this so called "word of god" still.