Frost T21

[Kluian05]

The most recent PTR build updated the frost T21 4 pc set as follows:

•Item - Mage T21 Frost 4P Bonus Name changed from "Item - Mage T21 Frost 4P Bonus - Brain Freeze Buffs Frostbolt" to "Item - Mage T21 Frost 4P Bonus". When you consume Brain Freeze, the damage of your next Frostbolt is increased by 75%. or Ice Lance is increased by 75%.

I suspect this will not stay at 75% for Ice lance, that seems really strong. And what is the point of having the Frostbolt at all on the set bonus? Would GS opt not to cast the free shatter IL just to make their Frostbolt stronger? Doubt it.

[Swizzle]

The most recent PTR build updated the frost T21 4 pc set as follows:



I suspect this will not stay at 75% for Ice lance, that seems really strong. And what is the point of having the Frostbolt at all on the set bonus? Would GS opt not to cast the free shatter IL just to make their Frostbolt stronger? Doubt it.

I think because of travel time, there are instances where using Brain Freeze directly after a Frostbolt cast gets the buff and bonus applied to the Frostbolt, so it may be a coding thing.

Or it could be to people who want really really big Glacial Spikes, who knows.

[Deleted]

I think because of travel time, there are instances where using Brain Freeze directly after a Frostbolt cast gets the buff and bonus applied to the Frostbolt, so it may be a coding thing.

Or it could be to people who want really really big Glacial Spikes, who knows.

Usually this is triggered with buffs and your FB would be out already and can't consume the buff, so it should end with a 75% for icelance. But to be honest, that would be insane. 75% more dmg on ice lance?

[nerfproof]

The most recent PTR build updated the frost T21 4 pc set as follows:



I suspect this will not stay at 75% for Ice lance, that seems really strong. And what is the point of having the Frostbolt at all on the set bonus? Would GS opt not to cast the free shatter IL just to make their Frostbolt stronger? Doubt it.

I mean some of us do run GS when we raid so that's why Blizz has FB on the tier.

[mageman69]

Usually this is triggered with buffs and your FB would be out already and can't consume the buff, so it should end with a 75% for icelance. But to be honest, that would be insane. 75% more dmg on ice lance?

Its sounds a lot but it really isn't. That 75% more dmg won't be on every ice lance, just the ones following a Brain Freeze proc and with t21 its highly unlikely we will keep using the 2p t19 (mostly due to the ilvl difference) so we will loose the 5% increased chance for Brain Freeze which means less procs overall. On an average fight lets say you will have around 20-25 BF procs (more or less depending on RNG) so that's only 20-25 ice lances that will benefit from that 75% buff. It is a DPS increase but not one to break the meters.

[Ladyoftheforest]

Usually this is triggered with buffs and your FB would be out already and can't consume the buff, so it should end with a 75% for icelance. But to be honest, that would be insane. 75% more dmg on ice lance?

It does sound good. Can't wait to find out.

[Deleted]

Usually this is triggered with buffs and your FB would be out already and can't consume the buff, so it should end with a 75% for icelance. But to be honest, that would be insane. 75% more dmg on ice lance?

Usually this is triggered with buffs and your FB would be out already and can't consume the buff, so it should end with a 75% for icelance. But to be honest, that would be insane. 75% more dmg on ice lance?

As you pointed out, Frost spell damage is calculated upon impact, not when you finish the cast. However, it could very well consume the buff when it hits, which makes this a very interesting question.

Suppose it's consumed on a succesful cast. In that case only the ice lance would get buffed, but nothing would change about the rotation. It would be a fairly simple buff to the shatter combo, but nothing else.

Suppose, however, that it's consumed on impact. Now some interesting possibilities arise. Shooting out a Flurry after a Frostbolt consumes the Brain Freeze proc immediately. This should then trigger the T21 bonus while both the Frostbolt and the Flurry are still in the air but before you cast your IL. Your IL is cast on the next GCD, which is long after both spells hit the target. This means that technically the flying Frostbolt will be the next "Frostbolt or Ice Lance" to hit the target and thus your IL won't get buffed. The only way this set bonus will apply to the IL is if you cast a Flurry without a Frostbolt before, which currently should only happen when you absolutely have to gtfo of something.

The interesting question then becomes whether this would make it worth skipping the Frostbolt and instead use the Brain Freeze proc directly. The answer to that question is probably determined by the dps value of the IV reset time and fewer Chain Reaction stacks that you miss out on by casting fewer guaranteed critical frostbolts, because the immediate 75% dmg buff to an IL clearly surpasses a 75% dmg buff to a Frostbolt.

It might also be that choosing to spend your bonus on buffing Frostbolts via the classic shatter combo will be beneficial for GS build while switching to the new instant flurry > IL combo will be beneficial for TV, who knows. Only the sims will tell.

[skitzin]

If anything all it will make our FB>BF>IL combo hit harder.

I do not see us adjusting our playstyle to go from BF into an FB since we are aiming to shatter the IL that follows anyway.
Especially since I doubt that we'd be able to get BF>FB+IL to hit at the precise moment so that we get all three hits with the different travel times.

[Deleted]

We would never follow up BF with FB, but we might still have to change the rotation if the T21 proc is consumed on impact. Again, since FB always hits after Flurry but before IL, it would take away the buff when doing the traditional shatter combo if it is indeed calculated on impact.

[Deleted]

Isnt this like a skill thingy aswell ? Maby we want to get our icelance hit with the 75% as icelnce does more dammage so what do we do to change the dammage buff from FB to IL. Isnt it simple that we have to use the skills on our action bars called shimmer that we shimmerlance the icelance on the boss before the frostbolt hits ? I suppose its the same with our old school skill dubble ice lance that not every one coult pull of so alot of whining. But as i see our frost 4 set it require abit of future planning and all on how you can shimmerlance the 75% buff into IL

Atleast thats my theory behind it

Probably not blizzard intention
This does change the playstyle but not the rotation( playstyle becomes fun again)

Fun isnt allowed in blizzards eyes so it will probably be different in some way

[Deleted]

(...) Isnt it simple that we have to use the skills on our action bars called shimmer that we shimmerlance the icelance on the boss before the frostbolt hits ? (...)

No. The first lance of the shimmerlance combo is launched on the next GCD. I can never hit before the Frostbolt does.

[klaps_05]

Being able to give the 75% bonus to only the FB or the IL is useless, as you will always shatter the Frostbolt due to traits.

[Deleted]

Being able to give the 75% bonus to only the FB or the IL is useless, as you will always shatter the Frostbolt due to traits.

What is "due to traits" supposed to mean? And no, you wouldn't.

[Deleted]

Isnt this like a skill thingy aswell ? Maby we want to get our icelance hit with the 75% as icelnce does more dammage so what do we do to change the dammage buff from FB to IL. Isnt it simple that we have to use the skills on our action bars called shimmer that we shimmerlance the icelance on the boss before the frostbolt hits ? I suppose its the same with our old school skill dubble ice lance that not every one coult pull of so alot of whining. But as i see our frost 4 set it require abit of future planning and all on how you can shimmerlance the 75% buff into IL

Atleast thats my theory behind it

Probably not blizzard intention
This does change the playstyle but not the rotation( playstyle becomes fun again)

Fun isnt allowed in blizzards eyes so it will probably be different in some way

If frostbolt is buffed and you prefer IL to be buffed, this will obvisouly change your gameplay while proc fishing :

1 : you cast ebonbolt -> flurry -> IL. looks great.

2. you have no proc at all. ebonbolt on CD. you cast frostbolt.

A) - if brainfreeze procs -> normal rotation, do not stop casting your second FB
- if brainfreeze procs again on second FB, then i suggest you cast flurry with no frostbolt to benefit from the 75% buffed IL.
- back to step 1. or 2.

B) - if FoF procs, i suggest you dump it with the next frostbolt to maximize the possibilities of having a brain freeze proc while on GCD. this way you have one GCD time to make a choice between FB or flurry on your very next spell.

I would say that this will not change basic rotation. But you will probably try to play in a way to maximize the possibilities of brain freeze procs comming while you are not yet casting another frostbolt but under GCD or casting something else like blizzard or anything else.

[texhex]

I dont like that bonus because it puts even more damage into the brain freeze proc which already now makes frost quite luck dependant, because most damage currently comes from our fb bf il combo which, including the resulting iv reduction and chain reaction stack.
The bf proc is just too strong and dominant and putting even more damage into it is just meh. They shoulder rather buff the damage outside of bf woth the set bonus.
For example each frostbolt increasing next bf damage by 10% stacking up 5 times. Or ebonbolt increasing your mastery/ haste/damage by x for y seconds

[nerfproof]

I dont like that bonus because it puts even more damage into the brain freeze proc which already now makes frost quite luck dependant, because most damage currently comes from our fb bf il combo which, including the resulting iv reduction and chain reaction stack.
The bf proc is just too strong and dominant and putting even more damage into it is just meh. They shoulder rather buff the damage outside of bf woth the set bonus.
For example each frostbolt increasing next bf damage by 10% stacking up 5 times. Or ebonbolt increasing your mastery/ haste/damage by x for y seconds

But the dmg is outside of BF. The set bonus isn't buffing BF dmg it's only making the proc that much more important and making the "rotation" slightly different depending on which ability you want the buff to take. Personally I like it because I play the GS and anything that will buff my FB dmg is a win. Also, nothing says people have to take the 4 piece if they aren't happy with it. With how often gear titanforges up you could just run 4piece 2 piece like most mages did in the early stages on ToS.

[Specialka]

Getting a bigger GS is nice, but it does not mean that just doing the normal rotation would not yield more dps since FB does far less dmg than IL.

[nerfproof]

Getting a bigger GS is nice, but it does not mean that just doing the normal rotation would not yield more dps since FB does far less dmg than IL.

That's true that IL does more dmg than FB. However for someone running the GS build it would still be more beneficial for them to use the dmg increase from the 4 piece on FB since it will store more dmg into our icicles which will increase the dmg to GS. I'm sure the closer we get to this stuff going live that there will be tons of sims proving it one way or another but just doing some quick math it seems to be that GS users will dump the buff into FB and not IL.

[Specialka]

What math? Only sim will tell.

[Phookah]

Being able to give the 75% bonus to only the FB or the IL is useless, as you will always shatter the Frostbolt due to traits.

Not sure what you mean by "due to traits", you only shatter a frostbolt when you cast it into a BF. If the buff is consumed by the next spell that leaves your hands instead of the next spell that lands you'll be able to use the proc on IL everytime.