Huntington Beach officer struggling with suspect before fatal shooting

[Toogoodman]

>I'm not a supporter of violence
>While supporting police brutality.


Sure, sure, you keep telling yourself that.

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Yeah, fuck the homeless, they should not choose to not be poor!

I take it you didnt watch the video where the officer tried tazing the suspect, who then charged with what looks like a knife, swing at the officer. This guy, whom is apparently homeless, was pretty obviously fucked up on some hardcore drugs (id assume pcp by the way he took those bullets). Would you want the office to just be stabbed to death? or shot? im confused, this guy didnt just pull out a gun and shot, he went through about every non-lethal option he had.

[Stop Pretending]

This man was young (reportely he was 19/20) and homeless. I've read other pieces on this. That's a damn kid in my eyes.

That's an adult in everyone else's eyes.

[Toogoodman]

If you took away all of the firearm-related deaths per year in the United States, we are still higher than any other developed western country in the world for murder by other means. Despite knives being the weapon of choice for criminals in the UK, the US has more stabbing murders, by an insane margin, than the UK does. This is also if you completely remove the police from the equation too. People in the US are hyper-individualistic, and have very little concern for the tribe or group as a whole, beyond whatever group they belong to. There is very little public consciousness.

On the other hand, we have a lot less rapes and assaults per year than most developed western countries as well. In short, violence in the US is more likely to be of a fatal variety, whether there are guns involved or not. Hell, you're more likely to die from getting punched in the face in the US than you are from getting punched in the UK. It's not a problem with the police, or even gun ownership.

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Yeah, and then you do that really cool multi-step knife defense maneuver they taught you in weekend-warrior krav maga, and if you instead opt to shoot him, it just means you were a pussy who sucks at being an awesome, badass Steven Seagal impersonator. Everyone knows real men use their bare hands to stop someone with a lethal weapon...

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In this case, the shooting happened because the cop finally decided he should stop showing restraint and shoot the assailant who was armed with a lethal weapon. He should have shot much sooner.

My favorite people are the ones who say "just shoot the moving target in the knees", most of these trolls never leave their basement, they dont know wtf they're talking about.

[niil945]

I think it's pretty clear that we can ignore anyone who snapped to hostility towards law enforcement and fallacious claims of police brutality based on a few seconds of video footage showing the very end of the encounter. And then we have the later footage that shows the guy actively attempting to assault the officer with a weapon at the beginning of the encounter followed by a struggle that thankfully the cop won out. As someone on the left, anyone who sees the entire thing and still comes to the conclusion that the cop was in the wrong should be laughed at. The cop showed restraint and it almost cost him his life and possibly the lives of others around him.

[Darkeon]

It wasn't as a first resort - the "kid" had a lot of possibilities to back down and, due to his own accord and decisions, decided to make the situation worse. Not really feeling saddened by his demise.

[Nalnik]

jezus christ ... where is the tazer ? why is there no talking ? wtf ..

Watching the full encounter video, looks like he tried the tazer in the first few seconds and it failed, only to be dropped/knocked from his hands.

[Shalidor]

My favorite people are the ones who say "just shoot the moving target in the knees", most of these trolls never leave their basement, they dont know wtf they're talking about.

And then they link articles showing multiple cops firing multiple shots at a suspect's leg, eventually hitting after missing ten shots and then saying, "See!? This totally works for a single officer who has to stop the suspect in the time it takes for an aggressive assailant to cover 7 meters!"

[Toogoodman]

And then they link articles showing multiple cops firing multiple shots at a suspect's leg, eventually hitting after missing ten shots and then saying, "See!? This totally works for a single officer who has to stop the suspect in the time it takes for an aggressive assailant to cover 7 meters!"

Lol not only that, if you're wildly shooting rounds at a suspect like that, what if you ricochets and kills a bystander?

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Watching the full encounter video, looks like he tried the tazer in the first few seconds and it failed, only to be dropped/knocked from his hands.

woah woah woah, facts dont matters, cops are EVIL remember?

[Jinpachi]

The officer could have easily pepper sprayed him or tazed him. Instead he reaches for his gun and pumps 7 bullets into the kid.

The onus is on the suspect to comply with the officer. Fuck anything else

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I think it's pretty clear that we can ignore anyone who snapped to hostility towards law enforcement and fallacious claims of police brutality based on a few seconds of video footage showing the very end of the encounter. And then we have the later footage that shows the guy actively attempting to assault the officer with a weapon at the beginning of the encounter followed by a struggle that thankfully the cop won out. As someone on the left, anyone who sees the entire thing and still comes to the conclusion that the cop was in the wrong should be laughed at. The cop showed restraint and it almost cost him his life and possibly the lives of others around him.

That's fuckin' right. Police stops ain't the fuckin' place to be having a debate on the constitutionality of said stop. Shut the fuck up and comply with the officer or roll the dice with your life. It's THAT fucking simple.

[Barnabas]

The officer could have easily pepper sprayed him or tazed him. Instead he reaches for his gun and pumps 7 bullets into the kid.

How could the cop use his pepper spray if the suspect took it out of his belt? Did you even watch the video?

[Najnaj]

If my job involved carrying a gun around that I'm expected to use, you bet your ass I'd want one, so when something like this happened I could point to it and go "Hey, look. This footage shows I was in the right. I gave him a warning to put down the weapon, instead he charged at me with it and screamed 'Death to pigs!' This footage shows I did the right thing."

It's not something that they'd go over at the end of every shift - "Ooh, I see you spent 5 minutes getting coffee. We'll dock your pay." It's like a damned Dashcam. There for when shit hits the fan and we can see what actually happened.

Good for you, unfortunately most people (and in this case police) feel differently. Insinuating that they they have some sort of shady motive for this is, as I said, not a valid argument.

[Amerrol]

All he had to do was stay down. It's not a tough fucking concept. Stop resisting and fighting back, and you won't get shot. Fucking simple. If there was misconduct, report it after. Resisting isn't going to help in the slightest in the moment.

[Shalidor]

Tbh, it looks to me like this was a case of intentional "suicide by cop".

That is certainly possible. It is possible, as in, it is as possible as anything else that has been completely untested. What is far more likely, however, was that he was on drugs, or in the kind of disordered mental state we should be treating with drugs.

When people know there is a high chance they'd get shot by the police they'll just start doing these things more often when they want to commit suicide.

I have a strong suspicion that I know a lot more about suicide than you do, so all I will respond to this with, is a request that you be a little more hesitant when diagnosing suicidal tendencies or ideation. I have something else to say about this but it will make more sense after I respond to the third point.

It takes less courage to have someone else kill you than having to do it yourself.

It is a falsehood that people who kill themselves are cowards, yes. It is also a falsehood, however, that people who kill themselves are courageous, or that it takes courage to take that last step. Apart from having what Freud called a "death drive" due to some sort of mental miswiring, perfectly (relatively) sane, rational, and emotionally healthy people are quite capable of killing themselves, under one condition, and it is surprisingly more intuitive than you might think; all it takes, is enough despair. That kind of suicidal person, doesn't actually want to die, which makes them different from people who have a death drive, the kind of people Freud talked about. They're the kind of people who can be talked off ledges. Those kinds of people kill themselves because they see no way out of their suffering, and they want their suffering to end. That's not courageous, but it certainly isn't cowardice either. It is, in its own way, rational. As opposed to suicidal tendencies or ideation brought on by mental disorder, which can (kind of) be treated with drugs, the kind of person I have been describing, needs to be treated with more general therapy and counseling. It's true that, a fear of the ultimate result may stay the hand of those in such despair, but that is atypical. The engine that moves such people is the suffering they're living with, and unless those people get counseling, lack of courage usually won't stop them from finding a way to kill themselves. Here in the United States, we have about 30,000 firearm-related deaths per year. Two-thirds of those, as in around 20,000, are suicides. We have far more firearm-related suicides per year than we do suicides by cop per year. Even if you could ensure that peoples' perception of police practice will change as police practice changes, that will, at most, only change the method by which people end their own lives, and even then not that much, because suicide by cop is a comparatively rare method among more traditional means.

Lastly, if you were to do an experiment, if someone were to try to end their life, you would not be able to use the above situation as evidence to support an argument that suicide by cop is likely to work, because of their bad practices. It would support the direct claim, but not the warrant of the argument, i.e. the bad practices. In other words, you would be telling someone that if they want to die, pretending really hard like they are trying to kill someone else, so as to be indistinguishable from someone actually trying to kill someone else, is a good way to do it, because people would be liable to do everything they could to protect themselves or others. If you were to make that argument, you would technically be right. That's not a justification though, for that cop doing anything different than what he did in the video.

[Xandrigity]

Justified, idiot got what he deserved.

[Shalidor]

You're going to have serious issues with police corruption and overstepping their boundaries, and honestly that is already the case in the USA.

That's true. That's been a problem since the 20s, with numerous major examples throughout history and in the modern age.

There are an absurd amount of reports on excessive police violence (youtube and social media is full with examples of such),

I'd be careful about that. It's easy to succumb to sampling bias. Remember, no one calls 911 to say, "we're all fine here," but if you tried to understand the life-pulse of a city through the lens of a police scanner, you'd think the apocalypse had occurred. No one bothers to post Youtube videos of perfectly routine traffic stops and other instances of the police doing their jobs properly.

but not only that also of police officers being charged for (serial) raping women or underage girls - with nothing being done about it because the community has a tendency to believe and defend the police.

What? First I've heard of this. Do you have a link to some stats, or a statement or story I could check use to familiarize myself with the issue?

I can link you cases of entire police departments working together to cover up the fact they had accidentally murdered some (white) kids, buried them in a field, as I've linked those in the past. There is something seriously fucked up with police mentality when an entire department of a dozen or more police officers all try to cover up for each other murdering some kids.

And then there were all the cops bought off by Capone, and the corruption of the police department in Athens, Tennessee, that ultimately resulted in the post-WWII Battle of Athens. More recently, we've seen some cases of brutal police overreach, like with Eric Garner.

It's important that citizens are always first considered innocent until proven guilty in cases such as these and that a harsh stance against the police must be maintained. If you don't do that, you will get police state / police mafia levels of corruption.

I agree with the first half of the first sentence here, but not the second half. An objective, honest, and clear-headed stance toward the police must be maintained, so we can accurately judge cases of police brutality and other overreach from cases of legitimate police action.

There are way too many people in the USA who instantly side with the police when cases such as these are brought to light, -even- when there is clear evidence and video material that the police acted out of line. There are literally thousands of videos on the internet of the police shooting unarmed harmless homeless people in the USA.

Again, first idea, agreed. Second, not so much. Yes, I've seen plenty of people rush to instantly side with the cops when they shouldn't. That happens. There are authoritarians on the right. That's not news, it is a problem, but it won't be solved by always having a negative stance toward the police. Those videos, I've seen them too, and more than a few of them there are people rushing the cops who are armed. You don't rush an armed person and not expect them to shoot you, and if you are armed, and an unarmed person tries to close with you, you have a responsibility to not let them close that distance lest they take your weapon from you and endanger other people with it. This is true whether you're a cop or someone who just carries a firearm for defensive use. I would again like to also refer to my earlier point about sampling bias. What you will rarely see are videos of cops ignoring homeless people. You will occasionally see videos of cops helping homeless people, but that doesn't generate views like bloodshed does.

And before this is replied with with some snarky "police hater" comments. Yeah, I don't deny that. I'm very anti-authoritarian and very skeptical and cynical about anything such as the police. Such organisations seem like the perfect breeding ground for crime and corruption to me. But honestly, there is absolutely nothing wrong with wanting to protect citizens against police corruption.

You may want to ease up on that position...slightly. Not too much though. And make sure you spread the love. Government and big conglomerates aren't any more trustworthy than any other authority.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

I am thinking of offering a class explaining to people how to not get shot by cops. Enroll today and I will throw in "why you shouldn't try to grab a soldier's guns." For free.

don't worry chis rock has got you.

[Xandrigity]

don't worry chis rock has got you.

Lol, if the police have to chase you they are bringing an ass kicking with them.

[Donald Hellscream]

Well maybe the person should have been less of a retard and maybe should have refrained from reaching for the officers utility belt.

also not enough dakka.

[Mafic]

Police officers have become weaksauce.

They don't know how to subdue a suspect?

This isn't rocket science:

1. Control arms so they can't reach for weapon.

2. Plant to the ground.

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The police officer was afraid of breaking the mans arms but didn't hesitate to unload into him with a gun. Bad police training is bad.

A broken arm means the man is still alive and threat neutralized. I think moving away from batons was a big mistake by police forces in US.

[Radaney]

Step 1. Don't attack a police officer.

Step 2. Don't attack an armed police officer.

Step 3. Don't attack and reach for the potentially dangerous equipment of an armed police officer.

= Not being shot.

But anyway yeh in the video the policeman executed him but he was armed and resisting arrest so, the policeman was also one his own.