Unrest in Spain: the Spanish government is taking control of the Catalan police force

[DrMcNinja]

If Catalonia declares independance on Tuesday I'll go ahead and refer to it as a coup d'etat.

The whole referendum is a farce, with people voting multiple times and an overwhelming majority that didn't have a say in the whole matter, either out of choice or out of fear.

And if Spain decides to send the military their way to shut down their government you won't hear me complain. But it would be more fun to do nothing and watch the whole "country" collapse because no one will officially acknowledge it as a country.

[Deleted]

I feel it's worth pointing out that while the referendum in supposedly democratic and progressive Spain quickly degenerated into authoritarian madness, another independence referendum in Kurdistan, sandwiched between Erdogan's Turkey, Iran, and fucking ISIS territory, went off without a hitch. So much for superior Western values...

It's a fight between politicians, nothing more. The Spanish and the Catalans came out today to ask for the politicians to stop fighting and start talking.

[Tackhisis]

another independence referendum in Kurdistan, sandwiched between Erdogan's Turkey, Iran, and fucking ISIS territory, went off without a hitch.

Kurdistan is a bandit-run hellhole.
Spain is a civilized state.

[Deleted]

No borders type of people are fringe nutcases that nobody should listen to.

What? You don't believe communism and friendship will solve all our problems?

[Grimbold21]

So today is day. Either he declares independence or doesn't and commits political suicide

[Deleted]

So today is day. Either he declares independence or doesn't and commits political suicide

live from the parliament (in Catalan)

[Acidbaron]

He won't declare independence since he needs support from the EU to not isolate his own region from the world.

What will happen is they'll ask for a neutral party to restart the talks and to work slowly towards a legal referendum, something madrid will probably like to stall for as long as possible.

[Deleted]

He won't declare independence since he needs support from the EU to not isolate his own region from the world.

What will happen is they'll ask for a neutral party to restart the talks and to work slowly towards a legal referendum, something madrid will probably like to stall for as long as possible.

It's kind of a declaration, with the intent to suspend it:

The law of the referendum says that once the "yes" wins, the Parliament will meet to declare independence.
Reaching this point, I assume the mandate of the people, so that Catalonia turns into an Independent State in the form of a Republic.
This we do today, with all solemnity, and with the same solemnity we propose that the Parliament suspends the declaration of independence so start a dialogue and reach an agreed solution.
The results we'll have to take to accunt in the era of dialogue we're disposed to asume.
There's many serious proposals for mediation, some of which were hard to imagine not long ago.

[Grimbold21]

So he didn't declare it

[Deleted]

So he didn't declare it

I don't know. Maybe they were independent for 10 seconds?.

[ranzino]

I don't know. Maybe they were independent for 10 seconds?.

Rajoy will have to face it: he lost anyway, this train is on its tracks already. Catalan independence or more autonomy, but nothing less.

[Deleted]

Rajoy will have to face it: he lost anyway, this train is on its tracks already. Catalan independence or more autonomy, but nothing less.

I'm not privy to what Rajoy will do. Maybe he'll overreact. Maybe he'll kick the can, as usual. Whatever the case, they'll make sure that the rule of law is kept.

But, personally, I think you're wrong:
People were sooo happy during those 10 seconds. After it was suspended, the cheers stopped, a silence set among the people outside, and they're leaving now. The independence-supporting CUP party has declared the non-declaration an "inadmissible betrayal".
This comedic train has only given wings to Spanish unity, and finally allowed a voice to the silent and silenced majority. Puigdemong is burying the independent cause.

But I guess we'll see.

[ranzino]

Rajoy will speak tomorrow anyway. if he fails as expected, Puigdemont can do his part and schedule the independence declaration anew.

[Noradin]

But they both want out so badly. Maybe it will become more apparent if someone bombs Spain like US bombed Yugoslavia? They have a king, he's likely a dictator and oppressor. What, ain't that narrative universal?

Maybe in Russia.

[Deleted]

https://twitter.com/cupnacional/stat...550272/photo/1

They just signed a document (pdf, in Catalan), after the plenary session, including the following:

we, democratic representatives of the people of Catalonia, in the free exercise of the right of self-determination, and in accordance with the mandate received of the citizens of Catalonia,
WE CONSTITUTE the Catalan Republic, as an independent and sovereign State of law, democratic and social.
WE PROMPT the entry into force of the Law of legal and foundational transitionality of the Republic.
We INITIATE the constituent process, democratic based on citizens, transversal, participatory and binding

It's not clear if it's just symbolic, or the thing that they're immediately suspending. The comedy show continues.

- - - Updated - - -

The moments before and after those 10 seconds of "independence":

[Heladys]

Good luck to the people of Catalonia, however this turns out. Here's hoping more spanish police brutality isn't coming.

[Grimbold21]

https://twitter.com/cupnacional/stat...550272/photo/1

They just signed a document (pdf, in Catalan), after the plenary session, including the following:

we, democratic representatives of the people of Catalonia, in the free exercise of the right of self-determination, and in accordance with the mandate received of the citizens of Catalonia,
WE CONSTITUTE the Catalan Republic, as an independent and sovereign State of law, democratic and social.
WE PROMPT the entry into force of the Law of legal and foundational transitionality of the Republic.
We INITIATE the constituent process, democratic based on citizens, transversal, participatory and binding

It's not clear if it's just symbolic, or the thing that they're immediately suspending. The comedy show continues.

Isn't this a procedure that needs to be done by, i dunno, the president of the regional parliament?

Edit: I don't get it. I saw a newspiece now that says that the signing ceremony happened/is happening, including Puigdemont signing the document.

[dvaz]

Huh, so they declared "independence" but then its like "lol nevermind"?

[Deleted]

Isn't this a procedure that needs to be done by, i dunno, the president of the regional parliament?

Edit: I don't get it. I saw a newspiece now that says that the signing ceremony happened/is happening, including Puigdemont signing the document.

Nobody gets it. It's all bogus.

According to the piece of legislation that they passed to have the referendum, the "Sindicatura Electoral de Catalunya" (electoral commission?) should be the ones to proclaim the results of the referendum. The law was suspended by the constitutional, and each of their members fined 12thousand euros per day. It obviously got dissolved the day after fines were announced.
The one proclaiming the results was not this commission, but the president of the regional government: Puigdemont.

The governing party is a grand coalition of disparate parties. Among others, Puigdemont himself belongs to the nationalists right, while Junqueras (second in command of the independent cause, essentially) is republican left. And they have the support of the radical left CUP. This whole political affair is highly unstable.
The plenary session got delayed one hour. Probably Because Puigdemont's speech was not to the taste of everyone involved. In particular, CUP wanted him to go all in. He wasn't going to, and he didn't: because that would trigger a fulminating response by Madrid (and he could be facing prison). They're buying time. But, since the very existence of the governing party is pending by a very fine thread, they need to appease the inner secessionists, and the supporting radicals (the ones reading the manifesto after the signing), by staging a symbolic ceremony.

And why stage a plenary session for such declaration anyway?. There wasn't room to vote what the document of the declaration should be, of for other proposals to be presented. It was a simple stage to give it a sense of legitimacy. And then, after the theatrical presentation before the Parliament, he joins his friends in some other room to sign a document in diametrical opposition to what was declared.

We don't know if it is binding. If there was an actual declaration of independence, or if he just declared to "assume the mandate of the people to form an independent republic". It's all semantics, to bid their time, hoping for overreaction by Madrid, I suppose.



And then I told them that we only want to dialogue.

[Haven]

Maybe in Russia.

We're not that good at spinning the whole "democracy vs dictatorship" narrative to justify invasions. Yet.