4th Term for Chancellor Merkel as Germany rejects right wing rhetoric

[Xarkan]

No communism totally was real socialism by totalitarian fascists, because who cares for what they did, what they called themselves matters. /s

This scapegoating of socialism/communism because some fuckheads used the terms in the past to get to and remain in power is getting quite old. On the other hand if you have nothing left to use as an argument it's not surprising to fall back to that.

The old sayings about being doomed to repeat history if we do not remember them apply to the left here

If the left does not remember the ways it can go wrong, if the left does not own up to its mistakes then they happen again and those supposed communist and socialist hellholes were detours for the left not the right

Dont be like the right who wont own their mistakes and just spend their time crying it was all the left. Dont be pathetic like them.

[Xarkan]

Having a hard time following you, but I'm going to repeat this point from earlier:

I am saying that the left must own what failures are its own, the soviet union for example is a failure for the left, the blame cannot be given to the right.

My other claim is that not owning those communist regimes as our failures on the left make us as pathetic as those right wingers (though since i am on the left i just smear all right wingers with that brush because why not?) who do not see the failures on the right and right failures include things like nazism

[Mayhem]

It really is. Especially since it doesn't even really matter for my little interjection where the letters are taken from, as long as we're clear that Nazi always refers to the whole word: Nationalsozialist, and NOT just national, as was implied. As long as we are 100% on the same page with this, I'm okay with anyone's own source for letters...

Who argued that Nazi is not an abbreviation for Nationalsocialist?

However if you argue that calling yourself a socialist always makes you a socialist, we don't agree.

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The old sayings about being doomed to repeat history if we do not remember them apply to the left here

If the left does not remember the ways it can go wrong, if the left does not own up to its mistakes then they happen again and those supposed communist and socialist hellholes were detours for the left not the right

Dont be like the right who wont own their mistakes and just spend their time crying it was all the left. Dont be pathetic like them.

Oh please, not this, yeah, the left owns that they were able to be elected (germany) or took power (russia) running on a left platform, however the left doesn't own that they then became fascists because that isn't left by any stretch of the term.

So the left owns that people generally favour their ideas? Agreed.

[Noradin]

It really is. Especially since it doesn't even really matter for my little interjection where the letters are taken from, as long as we're clear that Nazi always refers to the whole word: Nationalsozialist, and NOT just national, as was implied. As long as we are 100% on the same page with this, I'm okay with anyone's own source for letters...

The only one who apparently thought that was implied was you...


What I did state was that calling someone "Nazi" does not mean that one thinks the other is sozialist and nationalist, just that they have a idiology similar to the one the party that got called thus had. They weren't socialist either, despite putting that word in their name.

You do not become socialist just by calling yourself such.

[Yriel]

How does it feel, to be so authoritarian or so far to the right that even the German Christian dems are not right wing conservatives to you?

Well it's no secret that the source of Merkels dominant position is that since she had no competition from the right wing she moved her party more and more to the left and thus squished the SPD between her, the Greens and the Left.
All conservatives still voted CDU because there was no alternative but the more conservative leftist went from SPD to CDU and the more extereme leftist went from SPD to Green/Left.
It was quite ingenious from Merkel and secured her position for more than a decade but it really damaged our democracy.
That is a big part of the reason the AfD got so many votes. Too bad it drifts more and more to the extreme right but we really need another moderate right wing party besides the CDU to balance out the Left/Greens.

[Slant]

Well it's no secret that the source of Merkels dominant position is that since she had no competition from the right wing she moved her party more and more to the left and thus squished the SPD between her, the Greens and the Left.
All conservatives still voted CDU because there was no alternative but the more conservative leftist went from SPD to CDU and the more extereme leftist went from SPD to Green/Left.
It was quite ingenious from Merkel and secured her position for more than a decade but it really damaged our democracy.
That is a big part of the reason the AfD got so many votes. Too bad it drifts more and more to the extreme right but we really need another moderate right wing party besides the CDU to balance out the Left/Greens.

Yeah, I talked with this to my friends... we thought it would be a good idea to form D³ (Die Daddel-Dödel, transl. The Gaming Dudes). We have a lot of good ideas. Access to high bandwidth internet should become a human right. Violations of net neutrality a crime. EA and Ubisoft need to be destroyed. We plan to introduce gaming into basic curriculums in schools. Gaming will replace physical education as an alternative option. Atari 2600 gaming will happen in history class. Everyone should know what Pong is, ffs. Wars will be fought in SC2. And yes, we bow down to our South Korean Overlords. Clearly they are better at it and should rule the world by all means.

Unfortunately, and we've all been there, this is one of those fruitless TS discussions... too bad. It would be a better place. :P

[Deleted]

So you don't think a social democracy is fascism? Why exactly did you point to your sig then?

My point was that that's not 'real' socialism.

Yeah, except for the parts where they killed their own citizens

Yeah they were also quite clear on the fact that they didn't think Jews were citizens.
you know like socialism, they just called them the 'bourgeois' instead.

No communism totally was real socialism by totalitarian fascists, because who cares for what they did, what they called themselves matters. /s

I see no further point of this discussion.
'Not real' socialism is absurd.

[Mayhem]

My point was that that's not 'real' socialism.

Yeah they were also quite clear on the fact that they didn't think Jews were citizens.
you know like socialism, they just called them the 'bourgeois' instead.


I see no further point of this discussion.
'Not real' socialism is absurd.

What's absurd is to paint the actions of people who called themselves socialists but didn't act like socialists by any stretch, socialism. By that "logic" you have to argue that it's part of a democracy to have a dictator who has all the power because the democratic peoples republic of korea calls itself a democracy.

[Thelxi]

Merkel the political god!

[Yriel]

Yeah, I talked with this to my friends... we thought it would be a good idea to form D³ (Die Daddel-Dödel, transl. The Gaming Dudes). We have a lot of good ideas. Access to high bandwidth internet should become a human right. Violations of net neutrality a crime. EA and Ubisoft need to be destroyed. We plan to introduce gaming into basic curriculums in schools. Gaming will replace physical education as an alternative option. Atari 2600 gaming will happen in history class. Everyone should know what Pong is, ffs. Wars will be fought in SC2. And yes, we bow down to our South Korean Overlords. Clearly they are better at it and should rule the world by all means.

Unfortunately, and we've all been there, this is one of those fruitless TS discussions... too bad. It would be a better place. :P

You'd have my vote

[Zython]

So why are thailands, malaysia and vietnams birth rates so low?

Two things.

1. Statistical correlation doesn't mean that everything fits into it neatly. Outliers exist.

2. My guess is Agent Orange.

[Mormolyce]

For about the millionth time, the Nazis were a group of nationalists who got their debut brawling with communists in the streets.

Remind you of someone? Right, now let's move along.

[Player Twelve]

Two things.

1. Statistical correlation doesn't mean that everything fits into it neatly. Outliers exist.

2. My guess is Agent Orange.

No, I'll tell you why it's so low in vietnam: Population control. They have a 2-child policy. However, thailand nor malaysia has this.

[Milchshake]

For about the millionth time, the Nazis were a group of nationalists who got their debut brawling with communists in the streets.

Remind you of someone? Right, now let's move along.

Another fascinating parallelism comes from asking, "how did the Nazis actually get power?" They basically made a deal with more established and moderate right wing parties. Only asking for executive control. Then after settling into power, murdering a bunch of people. Starting with the communists, the real socialists, and unions....

Fuck I better get some murder insurance at this rate.

[Deleted]

The only one who apparently thought that was implied was you...


What I did state was that calling someone "Nazi" does not mean that one thinks the other is sozialist and nationalist, just that they have a idiology similar to the one the party that got called thus had. They weren't socialist either, despite putting that word in their name.

You do not become socialist just by calling yourself such.

I think you will find that the National socialists were socialists who weren't internationalists.

[Noradin]

I think you will find that the National socialists were socialists who weren't internationalists.

Not really.

[Deleted]

Not really.

actually yes, that's the core difference between fascism and socialism.
that's not to say there aren't other differences (naturally there are many) but that's the core one.

[Mayhem]

actually yes, that's the core difference between fascism and socialism.
that's not to say there aren't other differences (naturally there are many) but that's the core one.

At this stage in the discussion i am at a point where i doubt you have read up on the meaning of any words you're using, including words like but and yes.

[Deleted]

At this stage in the discussion i am at a point where i doubt you have read up on the meaning of any words you're using, including words like but and yes.

Known as Il Duce ("The Leader"), Mussolini was the founder of Italian Fascism.[2][3][4] In 1912, Mussolini was a leading member of the National Directorate of the Italian Socialist Party (PSI),[5] but was expelled from the PSI for advocating military intervention in World War I, in opposition to the party's stance on neutrality. Mussolini served in the Royal Italian Army during the war until he was wounded and discharged in 1917. Mussolini denounced the PSI, his views now centering on nationalism instead of socialism and later founded the fascist movement which came to oppose egalitarianism[6] and class conflict, instead advocating revolutionary nationalism transcending class lines.

[JohnBrown1917]

At this stage in the discussion i am at a point where i doubt you have read up on the meaning of any words you're using, including words like but and yes.

Its like these people have no idea how much well known (democratic) socialists hate fascists. Hell, look at Orwell, he, among many others, went to Spain to fight fascism during its civil war.