The Senate’s Military Spending Increase Alone Is Enough to Make Public College Free

[Toogoodman]

If you take the money away from the military who will defend the defenseless Canadians, their government wont do it.

It's pretty tragic actually that the Canadian government hates their citizens so badly that they'd outsource their national defense to a country run by a talking cheeto.

Well, to be fair, almost every single Western Nation has "outsourced" their national defense to the USA, and then criticizes them for spending "way more than any other Western Nation".

Also, something i think people are really missing here is that its the Federal Government job to protect the country, its not their job to pay for your college

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There is a very easy solution to this issue: raise taxes.

Let's use a hypothetical example.

The military is tasked with guarding 100 transports worldwide. They would prefer to use "man-to-man" defense, with a guard unit assigned to each transport, as that does the best job of ensuring safety of the transports. The cost of each guard unit is 1 billion dollars. Congress has approved funding of 80 billion dollars, enough funding for 80 guard units.

Those 80 guard units now need to work in a "zone defense" pattern, with specific high-value transports getting their own units. Those 80 units are not able to as efficiently complete their duties, due to all the personnel being asked to work more hours, and all the equipment seeing more use. This means that new recruits need to be trained and deployed faster (as well as earning overtime), and equipment breaks down and needs to be replaced faster. New recruits is not a huge issue, there are always people looking to join up. New equipment, however, is expensive, and takes time to produce. This results in the same debate over funding next year, and the year after that, until the end of time.

We should either pay for 80 guard units, and ask them to guard 80 transports, or pay for 100 guard units, and ask them to guard 100 transports. We can worry about what to do with whatever money is left over afterwards, as well as where to get it from.

It's very simple.

What do you want to do?
How much does it cost?
How much can you spend?
What are you willing to compromise?

If your answers are "defend the entire world", "a metric fuckton", "not a metric fuckton, that's for damn sure", and "nothing, just do the job with less", you are going to have a bad time.

Design a reasonable defense strategy. Design a reasonable foreign policy with appropriate funding and support for diplomacy, not just military. Design a domestic policy where you cover the needs of the citizenry (including things like medicare/medicaid for all, public education through college, financial assistance for those in need, etc). Levy taxes according to what the stuff you want actually costs.

Not difficult. People just need to actually be willing to pay taxes.

Okay, so I wouldnt have a problem with the government paying for college if we implement a Germany style education system.

People will attend k-12, at the end you will take a test that determines if you're worth sending to college, if not, then you get slotted into another category, such as vocational jobs. If you cant do vocational jobs, then you're going to have to be in the lower tiers of jobs, like wait staff, janitor, etc... People in Germany who are in all levels of this system actually take pride in their jobs, but i have a feeling in the US, if you fucked up k-12 and did poorly on the tests, youd just be oppressed and unhappy again.

Thing is, when you ask the government to take control of funding for ANYTHING, it needs to ration, because unfortunately, we cant afford to make everyone a PHD on tax payer dollars.

[Daelak]

We would be better served by booting half the morons that shouldn't be there, seeking degrees in nonsense, and spending the money on upgrades to the military.

So education is not a national security issue?

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Well, to be fair, almost every single Western Nation has "outsourced" their national defense to the USA, and then criticizes them for spending "way more than any other Western Nation".

Also, something i think people are really missing here is that its the Federal Government job to protect the country, its not their job to pay for your college

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Okay, so I wouldnt have a problem with the government paying for college if we implement a Germany style education system.

People will attend k-12, at the end you will take a test that determines if you're worth sending to college, if not, then you get slotted into another category, such as vocational jobs. If you cant do vocational jobs, then you're going to have to be in the lower tiers of jobs, like wait staff, janitor, etc... People in Germany who are in all levels of this system actually take pride in their jobs, but i have a feeling in the US, if you fucked up k-12 and did poorly on the tests, youd just be oppressed and unhappy again.

Thing is, when you ask the government to take control of funding for ANYTHING, it needs to ration, because unfortunately, we cant afford to make everyone a PHD on tax payer dollars.

You mean the other western nations with their own nuclear arsenals, navies, and armies? Ok, cool.

Rationing isn't a "government" concept, it applies to everything where there is scarcity.

[Kujako]

So education is not a national security issue?

Of course not! If you educate people they wont fall for the late night commercials between episodes of Robot Chicken telling them how awesome joining the army is!

[Daelak]

Of course not! If you educate people they wont fall for the late night commercials between episodes of Robot Chicken telling them how awesome joining the army is!

Haha yess! Reason number 123124324 why conservatives shouldn't govern.

[Toogoodman]

You mean the other western nations with their own nuclear arsenals, navies, and armies? Ok, cool.

Rationing isn't a "government" concept, it applies to everything where there is scarcity.

Rationing when it comes to the education system right now is done by who qualifies for government assistance, and who has to go into the market place and take out private loans. If you interject the government into the rationing system, you need set a different form of standards, just like Germany did. Right now, someone who basically failed their way through high school, and is now at community college getting Cs and Ds would be an absolute waste of money. For a system to work, we would need to set initial standards, and then set standards while enrolled in school, such as maintaining above a 3.0 (which is something we already do).

Another way to ration it would be to set decently high standards while attending, such as anyone who is below a 3.2 will be dropped from their program, because lets be honest, graduating with a 2.2 GPA is pretty worthless, no ones going to hire that person.

A big problem with something like this, is that were using estimates of who is currently attending school, if you make it essentially free for college students to attend university or CC, there will be a flood of people who wont succeed attending, because there is no barrier to entry. Most people who attend college, and reluctantly go to class, go because they KNOW they are paying for it directly, by deferring the expense to taxes, most people don't really understand how its being funded.

Also, the US pays 28% of all funding to NATO alone, having a nuclear arsenal doesn't really mean much if you're not willing to use it, which lets be honest, most of the EU nations would never use them. The national flag for France after all might as well be white, they're still goosed on being able to defend themselves.

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Of course not! If you educate people they wont fall for the late night commercials between episodes of Robot Chicken telling them how awesome joining the army is!

Whats wrong with the Army? it paid for my college, and gave me valuable work experience, hence the 6 figure job at 28

[Garnier Fructis]

We would be better served by booting half the morons that shouldn't be there, seeking degrees in nonsense, and spending the money on upgrades to the military.

Minor nitpick: if we made a policy of booting anyone, it should be based on competence and not choice of degree. I say this, because many people in STEM programs really have no business being there. If you are a 3rd year engineering or physics major that can't do basic integrals, then...

[Tijuana]

Minor nitpick: if we made a policy of booting anyone, it should be based on competence and not choice of degree. I say this, because many people in STEM programs really have no business being there. If you are a 3rd year engineering or physics major that can't do basic integrals, then...

Choice of some degrees DOES show a lacking intellect, however. A person with 3 years of STEM, but without a degree, is still useful to society. A person with a PhD in lesbian dance therapy is of no use to society. The point in college is to learn a marketable skill.

[Garnier Fructis]

Choice of some degrees DOES show a lacking intellect, however. A person with 3 years of STEM, but without a degree, is still useful to society. A person with a PhD in lesbian dance therapy is of no use to society. The point in college is to learn a marketable skill.

A person with 3 years of STEM but who struggles with basic calculations is useless to society. People actually graduate like this because of grade inflation.

I've been in 4th year physics classes with people who struggle with the concept of a variable: the problem uses x as the variable, the theorem uses y, and they can't apply the theorem because x isn't the same as y to them.

[Tijuana]

A person with 3 years of STEM but who struggles with basic calculations is useless to society. People actually graduate like this because of grade inflation.

They are still more useful than a person holding 55 degrees in nonsense fields.

[Garnier Fructis]

They are still more useful than a person holding 55 degrees in nonsense fields.

How is someone who can't do basic calculations useful? I don't want engineers designing things that don't work. I don't want programmers making software or working on databases if they can't actually program. If they can't do basic calculations, they aren't even qualified to be teach anything above elementary school. And at that point, anyone with an education degree will be more effective.

Degrees in 'nonsense fields' teach some sort of analytical thinking, which is more useful than jumbled, confused calculations.

[Tijuana]

How is someone who can't do basic calculations useful? I don't want engineers designing things that don't work. I don't want programmers making software or working on databases if they can't actually program. If they can't do basic calculations, they aren't even qualified to be teach anything above elementary school. And at that point, anyone with an education degree will be more effective.

Degrees in 'nonsense fields' teach some sort of analytical thinking, which is more useful than jumbled, confused calculations.

Because unlike a PhD in gender studies, a STEM drop out can still do things like, run a cash register, or take inventory. They learn some things of value along the way, even if it doesn't lead to career in STEM.

What world do you live in where college drop outs are teaching? LOL WUT???

[Garnier Fructis]

Because unlike a PhD in gender studies, a STEM drop out can still do things like, run a cash register, or take inventory. They learn some things of value along the way, even if it doesn't lead to career in STEM.

In what world is a gender studies student unable to run a cash register or take inventory? Or anybody, really? That's shit that seniors in high school can do before even choosing a degree.

What world do you live in where college drop outs are teaching? LOL WUT???

I'm saying that these people aren't even qualified to teach. How is that me saying that college drop outs are teaching?

[Tijuana]

In what world is a gender studies student unable to run a cash register or take inventory? Or anybody, really? That's shit that seniors in high school can do before even choosing a degree.



I'm saying that these people aren't even qualified to teach. How is that me saying that college drop outs are teaching?

Exactly. It's sad, isn't it? Most can't tie their shoes, and when they fail trying, they mumble something about the patriarchy holding them back. All of their problems are the result of someone else. What a miserable life they must have.

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Shocking.
You really wonder about democracy these days.

How do you feel about this? I think we should spend more on education not the military.

Why is making college free a goal? I would argue one of the biggest problems with colleges right now, is that at least half the students don't have the capability to be there, and get anything from it. We have had to lower standards repeatedly to get them all accepted, and then we turn around and lower standards to get them to graduate with their degrees in Societal Degradation and Riot Incitement.

Meanwhile, we can't get Americans to work jobs in construction, that pay more than the jobs you can get with a worthless degree in nonsense.

[Garnier Fructis]

Exactly. It's sad, isn't it? Most can't tie their shoes, and when they fail trying, they mumble something about the patriarchy holding them back. All of their problems are the result of someone else. What a miserable life they must have.

You know I was talking about bad STEM students.

[Tijuana]

You know I was talking about bad STEM students.

You know we were talking about both, and making comparisons. Why be a conversation denier? Why not be honest instead?

[Garnier Fructis]

You know we were talking about both, and making comparisons. Why be a conversation denier? Why not be honest instead?

Individual statements in such a conversation can refer to one, the other, or both. It doesn't have to apply to both.

I mean, are you fucking serious? Are you *trying* to steer this conversation towards the 'why not be civil' route?

[Tijuana]

Individual statements in such a conversation can refer to one, the other, or both. It doesn't have to apply to both.

I mean, are you fucking serious? Are you *trying* to steer this conversation towards the 'why not be civil' route?

I"m trying to sort out your bizarre behavior but, I'm not an expert in psychology. I don't even know what you are on about now. Whatever it is you had to say on this, I think I have already heard it.

[Tennis]

Exactly. It's sad, isn't it? Most can't tie their shoes, and when they fail trying, they mumble something about the patriarchy holding them back. All of their problems are the result of someone else. What a miserable life they must have.

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Why is making college free a goal? I would argue one of the biggest problems with colleges right now, is that at least half the students don't have the capability to be there, and get anything from it. We have had to lower standards repeatedly to get them all accepted, and then we turn around and lower standards to get them to graduate with their degrees in Societal Degradation and Riot Incitement.

Meanwhile, we can't get Americans to work jobs in construction, that pay more than the jobs you can get with a worthless degree in nonsense.

Making college free reduces inequality which means we have a more equal and prosperous society. I support an America where everyone has a chance at success.

[Garnier Fructis]

I"m trying to sort out your bizarre behavior but, I'm not an expert in psychology. I don't even know what you are on about now. Whatever it is you had to say on this, I think I have already heard it.

I was quite clearly talking about one group (bad STEM students). You twisted my statement into a statement about both groups. When I called you out on it, you accused me of being dishonest.

And now you're responding to that by claiming my behavior is bizarre. No, you know exactly what I'm talking about. Now and before. I know you aren't an idiot, so you feigning ignorance is just plain insulting.

[Tijuana]

Making college free reduces inequality which means we have a more equal and prosperous society. I support an America where everyone has a chance at success.

Not every American can handle college. It's a waste of time and money for many of them, who would be better suited to go to a trade school. Furthermore, the fields that the less bright engage in, are further harmed by sup par people working in them. Education itself, and journalism come to mind. Both fields fight each other for the lowest SAT score students, and then the public is harmed for generations from their folly.