How feudal is Stormwind?

[Techno-Druid]

Most of Stormwind is controlled by the nobles (obviously), but with the exception of Elywnn and Westfall, much of the Kingdom's local government seem to be headed by elected officials such as in Duskwood and Redridge.

Is Blizzard just lazy and inconsistent or is there an actual reason for this?

[Aucald]

This isn't really very out of place with historical models, but is it known in lore that the officials in charge of Duskwood and/or Redridge are elected, per se? It's possible the position of mayor in these settlements might be by royal appointment (either directly via the King, the nobility, or an empowered seneschal). Far-flung settlements or outposts can often have more or less democratically elected leaders that are still bound by royal law, edict, or decree - the royalty still remains at the top of the command chain even if the local constable, mayor, or headman is democratically selected.

[Kralljin]

I think it's laziness on Blizzards side, considering Stormwind has a House of Nobles, it would make sense that Duskwood / Redridge / Westfall are some kind of Barony within the Kingdom that has some ties to the royal house of Stormwind.

[Destinas]

This isn't really very out of place with historical models, but is it known in lore that the officials in charge of Duskwood and/or Redridge are elected, per se?

The magistrate is at least elected in Lakeshire. Redridge Citizens, post-Cata, yell at Magistrate Solomon due to the disappearances from orcs and gnolls:

You can forget about re-election, magistrate!

Though not in Stormwind, it's notable that this seems to have been the same in places like New Avalon. Mayor Quimby was elected, according to citizens of New Avalon:

I assure you this much, Quimby, you won't be getting my vote next term!

However, other territories are a bit strange. Darkshire/Grand Hamlet once had a mayor named Ebonlocke who was part of the House of Nobles, until he was killed in Karazhan. Up until recently, his relative Lord Ello Ebonlocke was the mayor, with his daughter Althea as the commander of the Night's Watch. This could be a mere coincidence, however it's also possible that some nobles/government officials are chosen as a birthright.

[Deleted]

Most of Stormwind is controlled by the nobles (obviously), but with the exception of Elywnn and Westfall, much of the Kingdom's local government seem to be headed by elected officials such as in Duskwood and Redridge.

Is Blizzard just lazy and inconsistent or is there an actual reason for this?

Stormwind is governed by the king not the nobles, there's very little indication that the society is actual feudal other than it has a king.

[FelPlague]

Stormwind is governed by the king not the nobles, there's very little indication that the society is actual feudal other than it has a king.

But the nobles refused to pay the stone masons when the king wished, trying to get them to but onyxia convinced them not to

[Deleted]

But the nobles refused to pay the stone masons when the king wished, trying to get them to but onyxia convinced them not to

The story has somewhat advanced in the past 20 years of warcraft, though.

I'm curious as to why it appears feudal to you though, when there isn't many signs of actual feudalism in the game, taxes or some sort of impassable social ladder, where the bottom rung is trapped etcetera.

[Benomatic]

The nobles are basically the government of Stormwind which is head by Anduin, they effectively handle the day to day running of the city and state. As for the kingdoms of Stormwind, most of these will be a parish council or county council with an elected official I.E mayor, chairman, Lord. These will handle the state affairs of whichever state, holding, parish or principality that falls under the sovereignty of Stormwind.

[Plehnard]

Most of Stormwind is controlled by the nobles (obviously), but with the exception of Elywnn and Westfall, much of the Kingdom's local government seem to be headed by elected officials such as in Duskwood and Redridge.

Is Blizzard just lazy and inconsistent or is there an actual reason for this?

Well it was a mixed bag back in the times as well. (At least in German territories)
The city I life near called Nieheim was part of multiple kingdoms over it's ~1000 year history but it always was a free City with elections and later part of the Hanse which was a traders Guild.
In contrast the village here (~1.200 years old) was/partly still is the property of the local barons family who started out as knights and were gifted their title and this land (+it's citizens) for their loyal work by the the Prince-bishop of Paderborn.

[Aucald]

I think you could probably say that the structure of Stormwind's government is Neo-feudalist as opposed to purely feudalistic - they're in a transitional state where some elements of a more medieval system remain but the structure of the political hierarchy is changing from lowest to highest. A constitutional monarchy with a representative body might even be somewhere in the near future.

[DeicideUH]

My guess is that Stormwind is not feudal. The nobles probably have political power in the form of a parliament/senate, but do not rule directly. We don't know if local officials are elected or appointed, but I'd guess the former, whichb would help explain their general incompetence (not that elected government can't be incompetent, but at least they try to keep their popularity high enough for the next election, while appointed officials only care about appeasing their patrons).

[Techno-Druid]

Apparently Wowpedia answered my question

The House of Nobles is comprised of some of Stormwind's most powerful aristocratic bloodlines and positions in this governing body are typically inherited. Presumably, they serve a legislative role as they are able to lobby for legislative issues and serve as the judiciary branch for the kingdom as they are able to overrule regional elected officials on matters of law.

[Soulwind]

There are countries that still have kings, queens, nobility and that doesn't stop them from having a democratic goverment. It's not a recent thing either.

The better question would be, is there a government in Stormwind? Does the city have a mayor? Do the different districts have representatives?

If the settlements have that kind of system, one would imagine the capital would as well.

Obviously Warcraft never gets into the specifics of bureaucracy, for the same reason the king was on the front, fighting with two magic swords: It's about entertainment, not realism.

[boots1991]

From what i see WoWs overall Lore direction is bigger than internal player race politics/story unless its a coup or clearly and directly ties into the big picture at some point.
While i would have loved to see a great feudal atmosphere around Stormwind as i levelled i didn't think it was necessary for the events unfolding.

Now if there was a total revamp coming up for Azeroth and Blizz set their minds to creating a interesting/interactive world and story for all races, the return of the House of noble's would be very interesting for the Human faction. Not all humans could want a priest King or to be on the defence forever.

[ravenmoon]

The nobles are basically the government of Stormwind which is head by Anduin, they effectively handle the day to day running of the city and state. As for the kingdoms of Stormwind, most of these will be a parish council or county council with an elected official I.E mayor, chairman, Lord. These will handle the state affairs of whichever state, holding, parish or principality that falls under the sovereignty of Stormwind.

I just think it's one of those situations where though it is feudal, it is an easy thing to forget when writing stories that don't really focus on such detail, you tend to write following cultural customs you are use to , which is a fully fledged democracy.

it reminds me of the night elf empire situation, it was by far the most advanced arcane era and the zenith point of mortal civilization (well they were immortal then), which if remembered when writing new quests or statements puts post sundering in clear post-apocalyptic setting from an Elven perspective. Yet this is only rarely reflected in quests and npcs, as if the writers (of which there are several ) forget the smaller detail that today's magic and advancements are archaic compared to then, and instead its written like they are some ancient roman or pre-medieval earth society with archaic magic and technology which modern society has far superseded.

It clearly isn't the case when they actively focus on them like they did with the highborne you interact with in 4.0 or the nightborne and Suramar in 7.0, but in other instants, like the Azshara quest and others its really like they forget the past was more advanced than the present. I can only assume because it isn't a very relevant detail to most of the plots and storylines and therefore easy to forget especially when you're so use to seeing night elves as archaic or stormwind humans as representing the best aspects of our humanity - easy to forget that it's a feudal society here.

I say this because while it may not be, the statement "you can forget about re-election" made by the Redridge citizen is indicative. It's something you can easily miss when writing dialogue or script when you're not focusing on any minute detail and forget the fact that it's a feudal system. Saying that it's not the be all and end all, because as Aucald rightly states, you can still have elected officials under a feudal system, most of England operated like that anyway in the previous 2-3 centuries when the Monarch still wielded power, you find significant changes to governance that shape our modern systems happening there, and there was a time when a combination of the two happened. This finally ended a decade ago in the UK when they got rid of hereditary peers, not that it was necessary, but the government just wanted to fill the House of Lords with its cronies so it could pass it's many policies without the cross checks and examination a neutral house gave. That's just my opinion btw. so don't go treating it as fact pls.

Anyway while you can explain some of these inconsistencies (which make you feel like either the writers forgot some of the detail or makes you suspect a new person not quite so conversant with the lore was working on it) with a little imagination or at least not necessarily a loophole or faux pas, theclarity isn't always there and sometimes the mixed messaging is a bit annoying, however in such situations always go to established and stated lore.

Stormwind IS ruled by a King, has a nobility that governs - so is feudal system, doesn't mean it's exactly like the ones we have had, it can have a mixture
The Kaldorei empire was the greatest mortal civilization and most advanced in magic, culture and a bunch of things no one has come close to yet.

So while you may see things that give a hint of a different system or an empire that was archaic, just allow the established facts to correct your perception and most of the time you would find the quest material or npc remark doesn't necessarily contradic the establish lore, it's just that YOU are the one use to a democratic system and keep applying that to stormwind causing you to easily forget it isn't one even though some Mayor's are elected. And it's YOU that's forgets that a civilization 10,000 years ago doesn't mean archaic and primitive just because on your world, the current civilization is the most advanced one, it's easy for you to forget that in wow this is not the case even with a mortal group like the elves. It is not uncommon either in many fantasy genres to have Golden ages in the past, but it is unusual for us in the 21st century so we forget and apply our filters and perceptions rather than letting the lore inform them.

[Deleted]

I think major interest here is how corrupted nobility will behave now with the loss of Varian in views of new expac. Same for the horde...

[Techno-Druid]

I think major interest here is how corrupted nobility will behave now with the loss of Varian in views of new expac. Same for the horde...

That's actually something I would really like to see. Anduin being more open to peace, struggling to exert control over various nobles with a lot of infighting. Maybe some noble family making deals with the gnolls or remaining Defias in an attempt to destabilize the Kingdom.

The Alliance has been too unified as it is now and while I don't want racial conflicts, a little bit of infighting to add some edge to Stormwind or Darnassus would be welcomed.

[Deleted]

What power do they have though? Anduin could disband the House of Nobles at any moment; it seems that the crown has the confidence of both SI:7 and army command instead of the House of Nobles (Especially after the Onyxia incident and due to Varian's personal charisma and the fact that both Varian and Anduin are frontline leaders). If Anduin wanted to give the people of Stormwind a Constitution and move legislative power to an elected body, he could.

Y he probably could do so and move forward leading the fight against the void. However this thread reminded me of the underground issues every faction has as well as some leaked antoryus quotes. After all factions done literally nothing during this expac and if they decide to break class halls some major faction activity is needed to bring the tyurmoil. Anyways would be nice to have 2 faction specific storylines to introduce next expac leading to an initial raid resolving some leadership issyies before moving forward with the ma II n threat