Stigma with Demon Hunters

[Ron Burgundy]

Does it still exist? Do you guys feel it?

I remember dks had a stigma in early wrath but it faded to a much lesser degree by the end of the expansion.

[GutsAP]

Nah, it's too easy to play for people to have a negative view of it.

[Noblebanned]

Nah, it's too easy to play for people to have a negative view of it.

Seeing as the op referred to Dks as the example,,and I got glad in Wrath with a Dk/Hpal combo, let's not pretend like DKs weren't a stupidly easy class when they came out. 2nd, as "easy" as DHs are, almost every other dps spec in game is equally as "easy". But tell us more please

[Sett]

I've only had positive reactions.


.....When I spec veng in WSG scramble.

[Alvito]

I've only had positive reactions.


.....When I spec veng in WSG scramble.

That will be a little less epic next time, with trample's speed being reduced by 50% when you have a flag.

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Like any new spec there are a lot of people playing it that are just awful at it. My all time favorite and I see it maybe once a month is the people that are vengeance and insist it is a dps spec.

[h4rr0d]

Seeing as the op referred to Dks as the example,,and I got glad in Wrath with a Dk/Hpal combo, let's not pretend like DKs weren't a stupidly easy class when they came out. 2nd, as "easy" as DHs are, almost every other dps spec in game is equally as "easy". But tell us more please

Yeah, they were also pretty easy, but the way the class was designed and how the talents worked back then (all 3 trees designed for both tanking and DPS + multitude of gimmicky and niche specs), it was also way easier to fail horribly at the class

My all time favorite and I see it maybe once a month is the people that are vengeance and insist it is a dps spec.

To this day, I have no idea which spec is tank and which dps. I don't play one though, so I don't really care as long as they do their role well...

[Alvito]

Yeah, they were also pretty easy, but the way the class was designed and how the talents worked back then (all 3 trees designed for both tanking and DPS + multitude of gimmicky and niche specs), it was also way easier to fail horribly at the class



To this day, I have no idea which spec is tank and which dps. I don't play one though, so I don't really care as long as they do their role well...

No I mean people who are playing a DH insisting that the designed tank spec can dps.

[Shelly]

DKs caught a lot of heat because they started out as a very poorly designed class.

Fun as hell, but all over the place.

Which is also one of the biggest nostalgia bits, everyone who played one misses tanking as something other than Blood, or doing a diseaseless blood ArP DPS build, or some weird hybrid frost/unholy monstrosity.

That was also combined with them being rather broken.

I mean most classes were broken in LK and you could easily see how things like ArP were going to be a huge problem, but DKs were straight up OP across the board with some of the best sustained dps in the game combined with self healing and AMS and AMZ and well, they just brought a lot to the table.

They were also the edgelord class.

DHs are the new edgelord class, with the added fun of having their resources named "fury" and "pain."

But other than that they are tightly designed - as most classes and specs are these days even if you don't like the design. They play well, have a good toolkit without it being too OP and like everything right now in this tightly designed era they play quickly and fluidly with very little resource starvation and better play rewards better results in both DPS and surviveability. They also have some of the best build diversity in the game right now compared to most specs.

So yeah, the stigma is still there, but it hasn't been nearly so long lived as DK stigma. Though it helps a lot that there's LFR now so you don't always feel like you're pugging in a mouthbreather that either lied about their experience or got carried into good gear.

[Sett]

That will be a little less epic next time, with trample's speed being reduced by 50% when you have a flag.

Yeah already for normal FCing it's noticeable. Still fun.

Horde veng DH can still do the GY leaps which makes it amazing. Double that if they (Alliance) are all waiting by the ramp or tunnel.

[Delandel]

Seeing as the op referred to Dks as the example,,and I got glad in Wrath with a Dk/Hpal combo, let's not pretend like DKs weren't a stupidly easy class when they came out. 2nd, as "easy" as DHs are, almost every other dps spec in game is equally as "easy". But tell us more please

As someone who plays multiple classes, yeah, DHs are very easy.

Here's an easy way to tell how easy a spec is: how well can you perform with that spec with a 1-button macro?

A geared DH, for example, if I made a 1-button macro to cast in order Meta > Nemesis > Chaos Blades > FotI > Blade Dance > Felblade > Chaos Strike and just smashed that key for an entire fight, how well would I do? Probably an easy 50th percentile parse honestly. I'll cast Felblade a bit too often (fury cap, or miss out on some extra Chaos Strikes during burst windows) but otherwise it's viable DPS.

You try to make the same macro for an average difficulty spec like Fire Mage and your DPS will be pathetic.

THAT is why some DPS specs, like Havoc, are easy. They are very simple rotations, usually just whack-a-mole press cooldowns when they come up, and are very forgiving if you press things in the wrong order. You big CDs -- FotI, Nemesis, Chaos Blades -- are just press and forget buttons and all their CDs line up, and if you have bis shoulder lego + relic your Meta lines up with them too. Super hard to mess up.


As for the OP's question, no, I've never seen or heard the stigma in actual gameplay. The only thing that still gets tossed around is the "huntard" stigma, in my personal experience.

[Noblebanned]

As someone who plays multiple classes, yeah, DHs are very easy.

Here's an easy way to tell how easy a spec is: how well can you perform with that spec with a 1-button macro?

A geared DH, for example, if I made a 1-button macro to cast in order Meta > Nemesis > Chaos Blades > FotI > Blade Dance > Felblade > Chaos Strike and just smashed that key for an entire fight, how well would I do? Probably an easy 50th percentile parse honestly. I'll cast Felblade a bit too often (fury cap, or miss out on some extra Chaos Strikes during burst windows) but otherwise it's viable DPS.

You try to make the same macro for an average difficulty spec like Fire Mage and your DPS will be pathetic.

THAT is why some DPS specs, like Havoc, are easy. They are very simple rotations, usually just whack-a-mole press cooldowns when they come up, and are very forgiving if you press things in the wrong order. You big CDs -- FotI, Nemesis, Chaos Blades -- are just press and forget buttons and all their CDs line up, and if you have bis shoulder lego + relic your Meta lines up with them too. Super hard to mess up.


As for the OP's question, no, I've never seen or heard the stigma in actual gameplay. The only thing that still gets tossed around is the "huntard" stigma, in my personal experience.

That's hilarious that you use fire mage, the other class I main, as an example. If you try saying fire mage isn't brain dead easy, you're lying

[Tinary]

As someone who plays multiple classes, yeah, DHs are very easy.

Here's an easy way to tell how easy a spec is: how well can you perform with that spec with a 1-button macro?

You try to make the same macro for an average difficulty spec like Fire Mage and your DPS will be pathetic.

I didnt mean to stop by in this thread since but Fire mage is not a builder and spender spec, its not advised to compare those specs.

If you wish to compare a DH with someone, use a DK, warrior, hunter etc spec which builds resource and spends it. Not a proc based spec.

[Soisoisoi]

As someone who plays multiple classes, yeah, DHs are very easy.

Here's an easy way to tell how easy a spec is: how well can you perform with that spec with a 1-button macro?

A geared DH, for example, if I made a 1-button macro to cast in order Meta > Nemesis > Chaos Blades > FotI > Blade Dance > Felblade > Chaos Strike and just smashed that key for an entire fight, how well would I do? Probably an easy 50th percentile parse honestly. I'll cast Felblade a bit too often (fury cap, or miss out on some extra Chaos Strikes during burst windows) but otherwise it's viable DPS.

You try to make the same macro for an average difficulty spec like Fire Mage and your DPS will be pathetic.

THAT is why some DPS specs, like Havoc, are easy. They are very simple rotations, usually just whack-a-mole press cooldowns when they come up, and are very forgiving if you press things in the wrong order. You big CDs -- FotI, Nemesis, Chaos Blades -- are just press and forget buttons and all their CDs line up, and if you have bis shoulder lego + relic your Meta lines up with them too. Super hard to mess up.


As for the OP's question, no, I've never seen or heard the stigma in actual gameplay. The only thing that still gets tossed around is the "huntard" stigma, in my personal experience.

That macro would use all your cooldowns, CS once and then go back to waiting for Meta. It'd be useless. I understand what you're saying though, DH isn't exactly difficult, but there's still some level of play separating those who can mash CS and those who actually play properly, and that goes for every spec - they can all be simplified like that into a castsequence macro.

[Eco]

How about BM hunters using just a mouse wheel? I am sure you can replicate this macro across other classes successfully. I heard about people doing some serious PVP actions just on a racing wheel without even touching mouse or keyboard. I mean... proc or rotation class... whichever is simplest is a matter of taste, personal manual/motor skills and fantasy. Back in Wotlk I remember arcane mages with only arcane blast on action bars and almost topping the meters. I am almost sure even today they would still do fine with just this one button.

[Deleted]

Haters gonna hate: Other classes don't like us doing 2-4million dps on m+ bosses

[Delandel]

That macro would use all your cooldowns, CS once and then go back to waiting for Meta. It'd be useless. I understand what you're saying though, DH isn't exactly difficult, but there's still some level of play separating those who can mash CS and those who actually play properly, and that goes for every spec - they can all be simplified like that into a castsequence macro.

The macro would use Meta first if it's up, then Nemesis if it's up, then CB if it's up, and so on. So I could spam the button and it would first do Meta + Nemesis + CB + FOTI, then Blade Dance, then Felblade, then Chaos Strike. Further mashing would be Chaos Strike until Blade Dance / Felblade comes up, and eventually pop the big CDs again when they come up too.

It's super simple. If this was a Patchwerk fight, the difference between someone spamming this basic macro and someone who knows how to play Havoc is that the experienced player won't use Felblade if it would fury cap, would make sure you have fury pooled up for Meta, and will avoid using Felblade if you can squeeze out more CS before your burst window expires.

In real fights, the experienced Havoc player will also know to delay your big burst if the specific fight wants you to, like if adds are about to spawn. But that's the case for literally every single DPS spec.

It's a super easy spec and definitely one of the easiest specs to play and do well with. Same goes for BM and a whole bunch of other melee, like Ret and Frost. There's nothing wrong with that, and I personally would love to make DH my main if my guild wasn't full on melee. But this was a response to posters saying all the DPS specs are just as easy, which isn't true.

How about BM hunters using just a mouse wheel?

BM Hunters are also one of the easiest DPS classes in the game currently. And Ret. And Frost.

I'm sure you can make 1-button macros for harder DPS specs too, like Feral. The macro would just have to be a lot more robust.

Haters gonna hate: Other classes don't like us doing 2-4million dps on m+ bosses

Seriously. Playing Demonic Momentum in M+ this week with Fortifying + Teeming is some of the most fun I've ever had in dungeons. DH is god mode there, with crazy high DPS, astounding utility, and silly survivability. I goddamn love it!

[Soisoisoi]

The macro would use Meta first if it's up, then Nemesis if it's up, then CB if it's up, and so on. So I could spam the button and it would first do Meta + Nemesis + CB + FOTI, then Blade Dance, then Felblade, then Chaos Strike. Further mashing would be Chaos Strike until Blade Dance / Felblade comes up, and eventually pop the big CDs again when they come up too.

That's not how macros work - there's no if-statements in a macro to decide "IF X is on cooldown, use next", especially not in a castsequence, it would simply stop the macro. If you had them line-by-line, you'd end up using all your cooldowns at the same time and pressing Meta without going anywhere because they would cancel meta's placement circle, which includes using FotI where you're stood, pre-meta. Basically, it's just a shit-show of lost DPS. Sure, you could work it, but you'd still end up with multiple buttons and it would end up being pointless. Like I said, I got where you were coming from, but that macro idea simply wouldn't work.

FWIW, you also totally missed out the likes of Fel Rush, Throw Glaive, on-use trinkets, and other basics which make up a fair chunk over a fight. There is a vast difference between experienced and what even the idea of that macro would do.

[Fiftyonred]

Seeing as the op referred to Dks as the example,,and I got glad in Wrath with a Dk/Hpal combo, let's not pretend like DKs weren't a stupidly easy class when they came out. 2nd, as "easy" as DHs are, almost every other dps spec in game is equally as "easy". But tell us more please

That is simply not true. DK's where severely overpowered when they came out, but they weren't any but more easy than any other class at the time.
The whole resource system was drastically different, and for anyone who didn't check specs from guides, finding the right spec for PvE was very complicated due to the whole "all specs can tank and dps" issue.

And, it wasn't as easy to find "the best spec" back then. To be frank, only the minority knew about "Shadowfrost" and even fewer casual players played it.
+ it was a completely GCD locked spec, meaning there was very little room for error.

If everything, as you say, is "easy" then nothing is easy, as easy is relative to "hard". So i am actually not sure what you are trying to say here.

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That's not how macros work - there's no if-statements in a macro to decide "IF X is on cooldown, use next", especially not in a castsequence, it would simply stop the macro. If you had them line-by-line, you'd end up using all your cooldowns at the same time and pressing Meta without going anywhere because they would cancel meta's placement circle, which includes using FotI where you're stood, pre-meta. Basically, it's just a shit-show of lost DPS. Sure, you could work it, but you'd still end up with multiple buttons and it would end up being pointless. Like I said, I got where you were coming from, but that macro idea simply wouldn't work.

FWIW, you also totally missed out the likes of Fel Rush, Throw Glaive, on-use trinkets, and other basics which make up a fair chunk over a fight. There is a vast difference between experienced and what even the idea of that macro would do.

I agree with you, just adding that i think adding /cast [@player] Metamorphosis would solve that specific issue

[Wolfman31]

I hate having them in my groups just because their animations are so freaking over the top and nauseatingly obnoxious, but that has more to do with Blizz's art team than the players.

[Noblebanned]

That is simply not true. DK's where severely overpowered when they came out, but they weren't any but more easy than any other class at the time.
The whole resource system was drastically different, and for anyone who didn't check specs from guides, finding the right spec for PvE was very complicated due to the whole "all specs can tank and dps" issue.

And, it wasn't as easy to find "the best spec" back then. To be frank, only the minority knew about "Shadowfrost" and even fewer casual players played it.
+ it was a completely GCD locked spec, meaning there was very little room for error.

If everything, as you say, is "easy" then nothing is easy, as easy is relative to "hard". So i am actually not sure what you are trying to say here.

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I agree with you, just adding that i think adding /cast [@player] Metamorphosis would solve that specific issue

That's a blatant lie. You could win glad with a /cast random macro. I broke 2k rating with a macro, as did countless other players. Then eventually you had to step it up a bit