Stop flipping tables about Dev Q&A

[Puri]

No offence but next time listen what his talking about not read a picked sentence from a 5+ minute talk about legion RNG. 45.40 starts the question in Q&A.
P.S He said " This system shows how randomness was misapplied and in the start of x-pack meant you are either successful of not, personally I dont think random distribution of legendary items are the problem and (Pay attention to this) if you imagine a system without troughput legendarys and only utility ones theres something cool about not having the ability to choose a legendary from a list cause everyone decided this is the best one.


So again, get your god damn facts straight not read a FANFORUM sentences of the damn Q and A.
P.S I dont even remember when I equipped a DPS lege outside a trivial content. Been swapping so much leges in higher keys that I prolly have more uptime on Prydaz and Sephuz than any other.

No offense but I don't have the time to listen to a hour long interview. It's the whole point of a (usually credible) site like mmo champion to summarize such things, and don't blame the readers if such meaning altering information is omitted in the summary.

[Aesde]

He never said that. He said that the legendary system is fine if all legendaries were utility. Which is true. People get bad legendaries and are jealous of their neighbor who gets his BiS first. If all legendaries are utilities, instead of performance, they would all be equally fun to get, making the system just fine.
In toast metaphore: Your toast is burnt but the guy next to you has a perfect toast, you want his toast.

There is the thing - if all leggos are utility only with equal performance, literally no one cares about it after getting 2 of it.

Nothing to farm = nothing to do = good bye, my sub.

And it's so funny to hear "If only I could back in the past I would never add dps legendaries" after they added BIS leggos to my class in 7.2.5.

[Soluna]

My post literally has a link to my own logs on Goroth ST doing 854k dps as a resto druid, there still room for improvement there with both my play and general gearing. My comment wasn't about your locks ability, it was that if your pally is 925 and doing 800k there would be significant areas that will make an impact far greater then swapping legendary x for y.

image if you don't want to click on th link

https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...pe=damage-done

Are you serious? Druids specifically have a fucking talent to be able to play somewhat effectively as one of the other speccs. I checked your logs, most of your dmg is in kitty form. I imagine you are using the talent, hell I bet you are using the leggo that increases the effectiveness of the talent to 75% instead of 50%. So yeah, not sure how hard you think it would be to do 840k dps as kitty talent form resto druid, with 937 ilvl, on a boss with nearly zero mechanics that you have most likely on farm. But nice try. Also, when we talk about healers doing 800k dps, we are talking about a fight where healers can't just go ham on boss, but instead have to heal the group most of the time. But as I said, good try. Now go play your tricks on someone dump.

[sam86]

Which already means you're looking at it the wrong way.

nope, there is no '2 way' of looking at a burned food
btw they literally gave us burned food in-game, say hi to Nomi

This thread has no meaning unless you actually give us at least a single example of game development and the correlation of Ion's answers in Q&A. If not, you're just making the authority argument which most of us won't buy.

Agree

[Eurhetemec]

Data is a bit like statistics in this case: You can interpret it any way you want. Most players would interpret it to further their own agendas, just like Blizzard uses it to further theirs. The difference is that in the majority of cases, I would assume Blizzard to be more objective (noone is fully objective!) than the average player.

Yep. Blizzard have to make money and that limits them to a certain realism. Players just have agendas - and hell, some players are just trolling.

No offense but I don't have the time to listen to a hour long interview. It's the whole point of a (usually credible) site like mmo champion to summarize such things, and don't blame the readers if such meaning altering information is omitted in the summary.

Perfect illustration of the problem right here with Puri.

Want Blizzard to release all the data and devs to be transparent and so on. Has absolutely no intention of looking at it or listening to it, will not fact check, will not blame people who don't fact-check, and instead will blindly believe some 3rd-party site, and then say it's not Puri's fault if he was lied to. I mean, that right there? That is why you don't go transparent. People will get on crusades because some "celebrity" or site told them to, and will not check the facts, and even if you prove them wrong, they'll feel hurt and sad and that it's not their fault (when it is 150% their fault).

[sam86]

Fewer people are angry this way. No crusades are started. If they put out data, they're basically saying "FIGHT ME!" over it. If they don't, they're saying "Our game, our rules". You don't have to like the latter, but it causes less conflict (and is also the way it really is).

So hiding the information exposing how they f8cked (or nailed, but it is obvious they f8cked it) is a good thing? Do u work? Or even study? Can ur professor in exam tell u that u solved it 100% wrong but refuse to show you ur answer and demand that u accept his F because u solved wrong according to him? And yes that example work because Blizz work for us not the other way around, ppl keep forget that WE pay them, not they pay us (and yes the example of professor do happen in 3rd world countries before u nitpick, but that means u see blizz as tyrannical dictator system, which i do see from that answer)

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Data is a bit like statistics in this case: You can interpret it any way you want. Most players would interpret it to further their own agendas, just like Blizzard uses it to further theirs. The difference is that in the majority of cases, I would assume Blizzard to be more objective (noone is fully objective!) than the average player.

how exactly can u 'intercept it any way u want' ? If they say 1000 player killed 10000 kobold, and only 10 player got legendary from that, what exactly u'll see here ? there is only 1 truth here, kobold average drop rate for legenadries is 10%, u can't see it any other way even if u want to
That is raw data literally, u can't masquerade it

[Eurhetemec]

So hiding the information exposing how they f8cked (or nailed, but it is obvious they f8cked it) is a good thing? Do u work? Or even study? Can ur professor in exam tell u that u solved it 100% wrong but refuse to show you ur answer and demand that u accept his F because u solved wrong according to him? And yes that example work because Blizz work for us not the other way around, ppl keep forget that WE pay them, not they pay us (and yes the example of professor do happen in 3rd world countries before u nitpick, but that means u see blizz as tyrannical dictator system, which i do see from that answer)

I do work yes.

I guess you don't? Because you seem to not understand how this works.

You think companies release all their data to explain to their customers why they make decisions? That's what you're suggesting here. Which companies do that? My internet company is "paid by me", but it's strange that they don't send me huge chunks of data on how they decide pricing. Netflix is "paid by me", but they don't explain how they select films/TV shows to add to it, or even how they recommend them. I could go on.

What company is it that you think does this?

how exactly can u 'intercept it any way u want' ? If they say 1000 player killed 10000 kobold, and only 10 player got legendary from that, what exactly u'll see here ? there is only 1 truth here, kobold average drop rate for legenadries is 10%, u can't see it any other way even if u want to
That is raw data literally, u can't masquerade it

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... ...

That math is a pretty amazing example of why companies should keep data to themselves. You going to edit that or what mate?

[VyersReaver]

Do you know why your toast is burnt?
Did you let it in the toaster too longer?
Do you have to take it out manually or is it supposed to pop on its own?
Why did it not pop out on its own?
Is the toaster faulty, why is the problem with it?
Is it just stuck?
Something broken inside?
Can I repair it myself or do I need someone else to repair it?
Can this get fixed for my breakfast before I go to work?

Sure you can come to the conclusion that the toast is burnt, but before you put it in the toaster you had no idea it would burn (like devs sometimes don't know something will turn out bad), and it's not as easy as it seems to point out the problem and then get it fixed, not to mention there's a lot of other tasks to do at the same time and not just fix a toaster.

Your comment is one of the best exemple of being uninformed and crying about what you see without understanding the rest, and what you see is just 10% of the problem.

Why the fuck should I care WHY the toast is burnt if I want a normal toast that I already paid for?
Also, if your toaster burns toasts the most immediate decision that comes to me is to change the toaster. Just saying, it doesn't have to be convoluted algorithm you came up with. If you legendary system is fucked up, JUST CHANGE IT ALREADY. Or change the designers behind the fucked up legendary system.

[Gasparde]

When there would have been only utility legendaries. Then the discussion would have been the same regardless. Maybe a little softer but it would have been the same none the less. Do you get Prydaz in it´s first rendition or norgannons or portalpants for a lock.

Whenever your have X items there will be a list that qualifies them or their worth to the player. So you would have people whining they got the "worst" instead of the "best" utility legendaries. Blizz can not win this fight. That´s why Ion is stating that the system itself is fine as is. For the masses the don´t min/max like we mmo-champions the ranking of legendaries means sqat so getting any of them is fine and getting the third that might replace one of the first two is good for such a person.

There will always be a best option. It's always been like that, it'll always be like that. But currently there leg A being a straight 10, leg B is a 9 and leg C-Z are between 1 and 5. If all legs were utility it would pretty much always be a situational choice and (unless they do something seriously stupid) never be a 10 vs 2 situation. Ultimately it's about the gap between best and worst, and if everything was utility this could be balanced 10 times easier.

[Mlz]

Mfw people would eat burnt toast as long as it was coddled with supportive PR

[Sarethion]

BLIZZARD: Here, we think you should try some burnt toast because we think you might like it.
PLAYERS: We tried it. It's burnt. We don't like it.
BLIZZARD: Well we don't agree, so we're going to keep giving you burnt toast. In fact, here's a side of burnt egg to go with it.
PLAYERS: o_O

PLAYERS: Give us a proper toast. We don't want to eat the burnt ones!
BLIZZARD: So why do you keep coming back and ordering food, despite us allegedly still serving you the food you don't like?

[Eurhetemec]

This burnt toast analogy needs to die in a toaster, frankly.

It's not burnt toast, it's like, toast with marmite on it.

[Ava in Azeroth]

I think with playing video games for so long (or a certain video game like a MMORPG), you learn the ins and outs by getting to know the developers through the game. Not everyone knows what's under the hood, but what's shown in front of my face, I think I could point out if something is a mistake. Some stuff is just apparent.

[ItachiZaku]

I didn't pay too much attention to the wow forums, but did just read the notes... I don't see a problem with any of it.

[Deleted]

So hiding the information exposing how they f8cked (or nailed, but it is obvious they f8cked it) is a good thing? Do u work? Or even study? Can ur professor in exam tell u that u solved it 100% wrong but refuse to show you ur answer and demand that u accept his F because u solved wrong according to him? And yes that example work because Blizz work for us not the other way around, ppl keep forget that WE pay them, not they pay us (and yes the example of professor do happen in 3rd world countries before u nitpick, but that means u see blizz as tyrannical dictator system, which i do see from that answer)

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how exactly can u 'intercept it any way u want' ? If they say 1000 player killed 10000 kobold, and only 10 player got legendary from that, what exactly u'll see here ? there is only 1 truth here, kobold average drop rate for legenadries is 10%, u can't see it any other way even if u want to
That is raw data literally, u can't masquerade it

Just like the toast allegory, if you oversimplify things, they become moot. Yes, for this one instance you can see that it is a 10% average drop rate. But who cares about that? It would probably also show that on average, every single existing legendary was dropped from a kobold in the last 6 months, so would the conclusion be that kobolds are best to farm legendaries?

Anyway, it's not about drop rates here, it's about balancing.

It's massive data we're talking about here with thousands or more variables.

It's more like: On average, DKs have done 1M dps on this boss fight, but Paladins only did 900k dps. Most Paladin players would take that and say: Paladins need a buff. But is that really the case? Could it be that 20% of Paladins did 1.5M dps on the fight and 80% of Paladins did 750k dps, averaging it to 900k. While 100% of DKs did actually 1M dps. Even this is vastly oversimplified and you could go thousands of nuances deeper, but this should illustrate what I mean by subjective.

[tikcol]

People flip tables over anything today.

It's called virtue signalling and it's despicable

[Duckypoo]

There will always be people complaining about something. Fact is that the vast majority of the playerbase is satisfied with what Legion delivered and is about to deliver.

Actually, that is an opinion. The fact is that you can't back up your statement with factual evidence, simply because it does not exist. Please don't spread stupid. It can be contagious.

[bufferunderrun]

I do work yes.

I guess you don't? Because you seem to not understand how this works.

You think companies release all their data to explain to their customers why they make decisions? That's what you're suggesting here. Which companies do that? My internet company is "paid by me", but it's strange that they don't send me huge chunks of data on how they decide pricing. Netflix is "paid by me", but they don't explain how they select films/TV shows to add to it, or even how they recommend them. I could go on.

What company is it that you think ?

No one and this pretty much why any company in the entertainment sect at some point get complained.

Many people won't accept the trust me attitude and companies won't release data, it's a dog biting it's own tail.

[Swalload]

Why the fuck should I care WHY the toast is burnt if I want a normal toast that I already paid for?
Also, if your toaster burns toasts the most immediate decision that comes to me is to change the toaster. Just saying, it doesn't have to be convoluted algorithm you came up with. If you legendary system is fucked up, JUST CHANGE IT ALREADY. Or change the designers behind the fucked up legendary system.

Lmao, you're so entitled you think you have the right to call for someone to get fucking fired just because you're unhappy about a feature in a video game?

No one said the toaster burns toast, that's not the only possible cause of the problem, think more, you don't think enough, or you're not good at thinking, either way you can be smarter than that.

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I think with playing video games for so long (or a certain video game like a MMORPG), you learn the ins and outs by getting to know the developers through the game. Not everyone knows what's under the hood, but what's shown in front of my face, I think I could point out if something is a mistake. Some stuff is just apparent.

Yes, and like I said, I don't think they're doing everything perfectly. Also it's fine to point out what is wrong and give feedback. The problem is people expect these things to instantly get fixed just because they made a comment about it, that's just now how it works. Sure some things took forever and some were completely ignored, again, they are not perfect at all. People if people knew how it worked under the hood, there would be less raging, less stupid comment and whining, more intelligent feedback. There would still be feedback and criticism, just in a more civilized way, less diluted by tears and anger and entitlement.

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PLAYERS: Give us a proper toast. We don't want to eat the burnt ones!
BLIZZARD: So why do you keep coming back and ordering food, despite us allegedly still serving you the food you don't like?

PLAYERS: That's right, and I'm gonna stay in your restaurant and keep eating shit and keep crying about it and still give you my money and still not do anything mature about it like moving on.
BLIZZARD: Fine by me.

[DesMephisto]

I have 25 years of gaming experience, does that not qualify me to say what is and isn't fun? what is and isn't challenging? what is and isn't acceptable? :|