Templates Gone: Anyone Else Wanna See This?

[Deleted]

You're dead wrong. Templates are quite anti-MMORPG as Varyag explained above and has been pointed out here by many of us for the past year, and in fact before Legion even went live.

Whatever gave WoW players the idea that WoW should be like a MOBA or FPS? That's where template type systems belong, not a MMO that has always had gearing and customization at its core.

If you want your char to be arbitrarily set by a developer with little to no variation or control by the player, twitch "skill" only and no gear, then there are plenty of other games and genres you should be playing, not a MMO.

I never started playing wow for instanced PvP to begin with. Actually arenas are the most anti-MMORPG aspect of WoW anyway. And you can have costumization through talents. The need to focus on fixing world PvP however. It's ridiculous.

[Whatever Dude]

Templates are the most cancerous shit ever fucking put into PvP.

Fuck e-sports I am so sick of deadbeats trying to revive that shit for WoW PvP. IT'S A FUCKING MMO, WHY ARE STAT TEMPLATES EVEN A THING. GIVE ME MY CHARACTER PROGRESSION BACK YOU ASSHOLES.

Why are we trying to appease the 1% elitist assholes who want super balanced PvP? Just give me my fun casual PvP and character progression back. World PvP is insufferable now too because there's 0 PvP gear to stabilize it.

[Clone]

I'd rather see templates stay for BGs, minus ilvl scaling. With that said I want an actual PvP set to farm and world PvP with.

[Logwyn]

I vote to just get rid of PVP and use the resources on something else and more fun.

[Whatever Dude]

I'd rather see templates stay for BGs, minus ilvl scaling. With that said I want an actual PvP set to farm and world PvP with.

Take that cancer out of unrated at the very least. I don't want no-fun elitists ruining casual BGs because they can't handle anything slightly unfair.

[jontunnel130]

I use to be able to poopsock wow all day errday. Now i have a life. I get on wow and do dailies. Doing chores in game. The next raid is due to be out in a month and thats what i do. Not random bg or even rbg's or arenas. I do chores. Pvp doesnt appeal to me in anyway. someone with around 400k hk's across 6 toons pre cataclysm doesnt even want to set foot in a bg. sure i might hop in one with a buddy on the weekend. but will i que a second time hell naw. There is no carrot. Gearing up (wrath was the best. gearing out like 5 toons balls deep) was my favorite part of spamming bg's and then arenas kind of downplayed bg's but they still served a purpose for non-set filler pieces....neck, belt, etc. Then rBG's came along and thats cool. i never got into em cuz i rather like randoms and arenas more. not to mention convincing more than 2 people in my guild to pvp back then was a chore. So someone who has been playing since 2005ish doesn't even want to do what was their favorite thing to do.... so ...effing...sad.

Bring back pvp gear first and foremost. Remove artifacts. Remove auto* legendaries. What they did with legendaries in legion has now diminished any legendary to come after it. remove templates. take some gorilla glue and put all the classes back together. remove the Oprah gearing mentality. remove basically anything added for legion. i know that sounds harsh but its pretty spot on. last time i quit was during the cata lul and i stuck around for waaay longer than i shouldve. raiding on 3 toons. pvping on like 7ish. but yeah. the only carrot right now for me is ap and i hate it. it also pigeon holed me into a 1 character type mentality and while i did level a dh to 110, geared out, concordanced out,...i dont even play him. i want to get all my other fav toons up to 110 but its not that i dont have will. my will just cant overcome the insanely huge "why?".

[quellious]

Templates need to stay. All the salt seen here is for one reason only: Before templates, you could outgear people and feel superior, and if someone beat you, it was "because they had no life and just farmed arenas for better gear lolz." With templates, you have to come to terms with the fact that you were outplayed by someone with more skill. That's why participation is down in PvP. The skilled players stayed because they never really needed the gear in the first place, and the worthless cancer that farmed random BGs for hours so they could feel superior to someone who just dinged max level are not seeing the worth.

[jontunnel130]

Templates need to stay. All the salt seen here is for one reason only: Before templates, you could outgear people and feel superior, and if someone beat you, it was "because they had no life and just farmed arenas for better gear lolz." With templates, you have to come to terms with the fact that you were outplayed by someone with more skill. That's why participation is down in PvP. The skilled players stayed because they never really needed the gear in the first place, and the worthless cancer that farmed random BGs for hours so they could feel superior to someone who just dinged max level are not seeing the worth.

Yes you could outgear people...that didnt pvp. And it sure was fun stomping people that put zero time/effort into their character. It was part of the honor grind. Take your licks, get better, gear up. But i can see your thinking. Because now pve gearing is the same as pvp. It no longer requires you to play the game to get the same gear as if you did. Dunno if this is what your talking about. But before legion you actually had to gear up before beating raids. The same was true for pvp. Is that what you're advocating? Are you going to be the champion for WoW's new "everyone can do everything at any time no matter what, please dont unsub please...here's a piece of loot and 500g dont quit please." mantra

[Louz]

Yes you could outgear people...that didnt pvp. And it sure was fun stomping people that put zero time/effort into their character. It was part of the honor grind. Take your licks, get better, gear up. But i can see your thinking. Because now pve gearing is the same as pvp. It no longer requires you to play the game to get the same gear as if you did. Dunno if this is what your talking about. But before legion you actually had to gear up before beating raids. The same was true for pvp. Is that what you're advocating? Are you going to be the champion for WoW's new "everyone can do everything at any time no matter what, please dont unsub please...here's a piece of loot and 500g dont quit please." mantra

Boy don't you feel smart now?

It sure was hell of a fun to stomp people with next to no gear and win by a landslide with 50 killing blows each while the opposite team had 0.

But then you joined a BG and found yourself teamed up with blue-geared freshly dinged noobs that have HP equal to one warrior's sudden death proc damage. How fun was that, knowing you can either just leave or sit there and get farmed.

What you skill-less whiners don't realize, when you compare PvP to PvE, is that you don't face an end-game raid boss right after you hit max level. You farm lower level dungeons and raids, go through all sorts of catch-up shit and then, once you're finally geared enough, you take on the final boss.

While in PvP, you would hit max level and went straight to the last boss, which a fully glad geared player is to a fresh one.


What WoW needs is either to keep the templates (there IS customization - you can always swap talents, and no, back then, there wasn't any more customization, as everyone went with some current cookie-cutter spec anyway as far as stats go).

OR have players split into leagues either by rating or ilvl - yes, even in randoms. Downside is that the queue times would probably be drastically higher and people would whine still, since they would be matched against their equally skilled/geared opponents and therefore couldn't just roflstomp them, which is what they love most.

[Livevil]

Templates need to go. They had a perfectly working system in wod, where your items would get upscaled to a certain ilvl. It was just too low compared to the max attainable. Also, Blizzard intelligently segregated the BG queues between zero prestige and 1+ so that nobody could see the difference between high artifact/gear/full talents characters and new ones on a daily basis. Guess what would happen if they separated the queues based on ilvl in earlier expansions as well.

[Whatever Dude]

People are delusional with their accusation that template haters somehow love stomping under-geared players. 100% fabricated lie said in order to make us look bad.

Templates were created by elitists for elitists. They remove the most important aspect of an RPG: character progression. For this reason and this reason only they have to go.

[Caolela]

Templates need to stay. All the salt seen here is for one reason only: Before templates, you could outgear people and feel superior, and if someone beat you, it was "because they had no life and just farmed arenas for better gear lolz." With templates, you have to come to terms with the fact that you were outplayed by someone with more skill. That's why participation is down in PvP. The skilled players stayed because they never really needed the gear in the first place, and the worthless cancer that farmed random BGs for hours so they could feel superior to someone who just dinged max level are not seeing the worth.

For christssakes, let's stop with this canard. It has nothing to do with wanting to outgear and stomp people, because that didn't last long when new 100 dings could be geared in a week or less with catch-up caps. Also because even undergeared, better players will tend to win from better strats and positioning and comms.

This is complete and utter bullshit spread by the kiddies that are too lazy or incompetent to figure out their better gear set-ups and then go after it. Those people should NOT be playing an MMO. They should not be agitating to fuck up an MMO that had gearing since it began.

As has been said a million times before: you don't notice the gear & AP & talent disparity on a new ding in Legion because you're put into separate queues with others below Prestige 1. Blizz has to disguise their lousy system in order to make it even begin to work.

If you're a new 110 and were put into normal queues, you'd get your face kicked in just like you did before Legion.

Too fucking bad, kids. Learn to take your lumps and try to get something useful out of it. That's what MMOs have been about, the learning curve and the gear curve.

[Nerovar]

The system we had in WoD was vastly superior. Templates need to go.

[Eazy]

I loved it when I had full gladiator gear and then was 1-2 shotting people with Ambush+Backstab.

They should get rid of the templates, and balance TOP PvP Gear, so:
-we'll have a reason to grind PvP,
-we'll have balanced PvP(whatever it sounds like),
-PvP gear would matter, so doing PvP would matter more,
-I could go back to 1-2 shotting green/blue geared people,

Templates were created by elitists for elitists. They remove the most important aspect of an RPG: character progression. For this reason and this reason only they have to go.

In Legion I'm doing PvP only for T-mogs, back in the previous expansions I was doing it for the gear, and it felt seriously nice after getting whole PvP gear to kill-off newbies on the BGs. You felt that you grinded this for a reason... and you were prepared for the high arena ratings.

[Philomene]

Templates are nice in the way that a freshly 110 character isn't as useless as before. They should just rework the templates to be spell modifiers (eg. frostbolt +30% on players, vampiric touch -15% ...) and let us again choose our gear (PvE or PvP) and secondary stats. It's awful to be used to having a high haste score as Spriest in open world content and then playing in a random battleground where casts last forever.

[DeicideUH]

Templates are the best thing they could have done to PvP.

If PvP does not feel right, it's because of other problems:
1- Class toolkits are very uneven: some specs have too good combinations of mobility, cc, burst and/or utility, while others are far more limited. Playing as one of the later is very unrewarding when you face those in the former.

2- Artifact power. Templates makes PvP far more fair, but it takes as long to powerup your artifact as it once usually it would take to get gear. So, some of the purposes of the template are negated if you do not have a fully powered artifact.

Fix those two issues above, and PvP will feel alright.

Some people complain that the template is not customizable, unlike previous PvP gear. Well, that's what the PvP talent system is for. Blizzard should consider adding one row that is all about template customization. Like, one option gives speed + haste; another gives leech + critical; the last one gives Versatility + Evade. Or maybe there could be a row with +stat/-stat trade-offs, in which you could make some small changes to your template.

About World PvP: that will never be balanced. Sorry, but that ship sinked in vanilla. Only way to make it better it is if PvP template activates in WPvP, but Blizzard does not want that to happen (I'd be in favor of it, thought).

[Hyral]

Remove templates. Useless. I want to build and play my character the way I want to. And if I happen to find a way to play it more efficiently than the developers themselves could come up with then it's on them. The only benefit to templates is their job gets easier, but I am not willing to pay a tax on my entertainment of a game I pay a monthly fee for in order to make someone's job easier. I do support ilvl scaling for the sake of fair competition however.

The system we had in WoD was vastly superior. Templates need to go.

I will never understand why they did away with it. The only problem with WoD was the RNG loot boxes bullshit from Ashran, everything else regarding gear in PvP was perfect.

[DeicideUH]

Boy don't you feel smart now?

It sure was hell of a fun to stomp people with next to no gear and win by a landslide with 50 killing blows each while the opposite team had 0.

But then you joined a BG and found yourself teamed up with blue-geared freshly dinged noobs that have HP equal to one warrior's sudden death proc damage. How fun was that, knowing you can either just leave or sit there and get farmed.

What you skill-less whiners don't realize, when you compare PvP to PvE, is that you don't face an end-game raid boss right after you hit max level. You farm lower level dungeons and raids, go through all sorts of catch-up shit and then, once you're finally geared enough, you take on the final boss.

While in PvP, you would hit max level and went straight to the last boss, which a fully glad geared player is to a fresh one.


What WoW needs is either to keep the templates (there IS customization - you can always swap talents, and no, back then, there wasn't any more customization, as everyone went with some current cookie-cutter spec anyway as far as stats go).

OR have players split into leagues either by rating or ilvl - yes, even in randoms. Downside is that the queue times would probably be drastically higher and people would whine still, since they would be matched against their equally skilled/geared opponents and therefore couldn't just roflstomp them, which is what they love most.

This is so right!

It's very "fun" to be fully geared and stomp random noobs. It's not fun to get into a BG and see you are the only one geared.

This also made PvP very unfun for people trying to get into PvP. I have tried countless times to convince friends to do PvP, just for them to give up because they some gladiator-geared guy can one-shot them repeatedly.

Templates are a god-send. If PvP feels wrong right now, it's not because of them.

[Nerovar]

I will never understand why they did away with it. The only problem with WoD was the RNG loot boxes bullshit from Ashran, everything else regarding gear in PvP was perfect.

Everyone hated Ashran loot boxes (RNG loot) in WoD which somehow caused Blizzard to make every piece of PvP loot RNG based.
It's inconceivable to me how the devs could come up with this shitty solution.

[Kralljin]

People are delusional with their accusation that template haters somehow love stomping under-geared players.

I loved it when I had full gladiator gear and then was 1-2 shotting people with Ambush+Backstab.

Can't make up this shit.