Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[ati87]

The commanding chief of the US armed forces is the President. He can fire any general from any military position, for example.

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Yeah. I do not understand how the US could invade Iraq without a declaration of war. Bush got congressional approval, but I remember him saying, he did not need it.

The president needs approval but he can order strikes without the approval.
So if Trump ordered the US military to attack Iran he could force Congress the approve because Iran would definitely retaliate.

[Skroe]

Well, as far as i see required consolidation of space industry capacity required for such a feat only finished quite recently.

4 years ago is recently, and Roscosmos and the rest of the Russian space program has been reorganized so many times, I've actually lost count.

It'll lead to the same outcome.

And now they are adapting Soyuz-5 for Sea Launch platform.

Soyuz 5? You mean this?


Soyuz-5 is a Russia's latest *massive* load of shit (along with the Soyuz-7 you also mention, which is even more so).

All Russia does is talk about it wants to do in space. It talks about an orbital space tug, or it talks about an orbital space construction station (that it pulled from Star Trek). Or it talks about the Federation capsule. Or Angara with 8 cores strapped on.

It is all a load of shit.

Russia has not the money, nor the industrial base to build any of this. The Soyuz 5 is scheduled to fly in the 2nd half 2022. Get ready for that to become 2024. Then 2026. Then never. Because that is exactly how all of Russia's space schemes work. Because it is a scheme. People like you eat up the CG, and then your tax dollars vanish into the pockets of Putin's goons, and you keep flying fly classic Soyuz and Proton like nothing happened.

Most of Russian industry and science certainly is inherited from USSR times; but that's what civilization is. Keeping what works.

Uhhh, except the Soyuz and Proton don't really work. Not any more. They work at exactly one thing: butting a tiny capsule, small and modest payloads, into Low Earth orbit. Civilization is also about progress and letting go of what is obsolete. The United States does that. Russia does not. And that is why it'll be 2035 and Russians will be limited to LEO on the same Soyuz they've been launching for decades.

Well, Columbia disaster certainly didn't help things...

You got your facts backwards. The Shuttle was anticipated to fly until about 2020 and then be retired under the 20 year plan from the year 2000, but the Columbia disaster lead to a wholescale re look at the US space program. That re-look didn't exist in a vacuum. The US proposed to go to Mars, most recently (at that point in time), by George H.W. Bush in 1988. Before that there had been several Mars and return to the moon visions that co-existed with the space station vision, stretching back to 1969. Columbia and the lines of discussion after made clear, the US could continue to fly the space shuttle, or replace it and go beyond earth orbit, but not both.

[rda]

Look up observation. Come back here and apologize.

You said I don't understand how science works. Can you be more specific? What it is that I don't understand and where?

I think you have a fundamental misunderstanding about how the scientific method is actually used.

Same here, can you be more specific regarding this fundamental misunderstanding that I supposedly have? What is it?

[zorkuus]

Same here, can you be more specific regarding this fundamental misunderstanding that I supposedly have? What is it?

You think that only experiments that arrive at a reproducable conclusion is science. I'm sure there is plenty more if you fail at such an easy concept as that one.

[rda]

Russia has not the money, nor the industrial base to build any of this. The Soyuz 5 is scheduled to fly in the 2nd half 2022. Get ready for that to become 2024. Then 2026. Then never. Because that is exactly how all of Russia's space schemes work. Because it is a scheme. People like you eat up the CG, and then your tax dollars vanish into the pockets of Putin's goons, and you keep flying fly classic Soyuz and Proton like nothing happened.

Can you be a little less abrasive?

I for one agree that Russia's space program goes exactly nowhere and is ruined through and through by corruption - as well as a ton of other things. You are saying pompously "People like you eat up the CG", but I don't think Shalcker is oblivious to what is going on and "eats up the CG". Stop being obnoxious.

[rda]

You think that only experiments that arrive at a reproducable conclusion is science. I'm sure there is plenty more if you fail at such an easy concept as that one.

This is peculiar wording. Experiments that are reproducible are science. As in, their findings are accepted into "science". Experiments that are not reproducible are, well, experiments that are not reproducible. We may talk about how people who set them up were trying to find something notable that would be worth including into "science", but well, they failed to find it.

[zorkuus]

This is peculiar wording. Experiments that are reproducible are science. As in, their findings are accepted into "science". Experiments that are not reproducible are, well, experiments that are not reproducible. We may talk about how people who set them up were trying to find something notable that would be worth including into "science", but well, they failed to find it.

The process that lead to a failed conclusion is still science. What is the big problem here that your brain is unable to process?

[rda]

The process that lead to a failed conclusion is still science dipshit.

First, reported for namecalling. If you cannot talk in a civil manner, just don't talk.

Second, can you elaborate regarding what specifically you mean because you can mean multiple different things and depending on that you'd either agree with me or be wrong.

[Dontrike]

This is peculiar wording. Experiments that are reproducible are science.

Go watch some Mythbusters because none of us have the time to keep explaining this to you, so one final time. Researching anything, even if you find something is false, is still science.

[Shalcker]

Can you be a little less abrasive?

I for one agree that Russia's space program goes exactly nowhere and is ruined through and through by corruption - as well as a ton of other things. You are saying pompously "People like you eat up the CG", but I don't think Shalcker is oblivious to what is going on and "eats up the CG". Stop being obnoxious.

Are there plenty of corruption? Sure.

Nuclear powered orbital tug project is also real and quite doable with existing industrial base - as do most things nuclear in Russia, one of a few remaining bastions of competence. And it is still going - obviously not at previously expected dates.

As long as principal parts keep being developed and tested eventually it'll be completed. There is nothing impossible about it.

[rda]

Researching anything, even if you find something is false, is still science.

Absolutely, but what we were discussing was something else, and you again failed to understand the difference. We discussed reproducibility. Whether something is true or false is orthogonal to it.

[Shalcker]

Go watch some Mythbusters because none of us have the time to keep explaining this to you, so one final time. Researching anything, even if you find something is false, is still science.

Do you consider anti-vaxxers of "causes autism" kind following science when they base their views on selection of studies that supported their viewpoint and were later debunked?

Was the study itself science?

[zorkuus]

First, reported for namecalling. If you cannot talk in a civil manner, just don't talk.

Second, can you elaborate regarding what specifically you mean because you can mean multiple different things and depending on that you'd either agree with me or be wrong.

It has been elaborated. bye

[rda]

It has been elaborated. bye

It has been elaborated to mean what Dontrike is trying to say above and that is wrong (Dontrike is saying that science does not have to be reproducible because when you set up an experiment to find X and fail to find X, that still can be science - yes, that's a weird mix of mullings about science that ends up being nonsense). I thought you might have meant something else, but perhaps not, so, gg, I guess.

[Breccia]

So let's pretend someone went and counted all the days a Cabinet seat was empty. For example, let's say there were two seats open for five days each. That'd be ten days.

By this point in their first term, W would have 34 days. Makes sense, he kind of inherited a bunch of people.

HW had 87. Again, same.

Obama had 288. Clinton had 322. Both had to start from scratch, so, makes sense they'd take a little longer to fill all those slots.

Trump had one thousand, three hundred ninety seven total days with either acting people, or no people, in the role. Yes, that's more than all of them combined. Or, looked at differently, quadruple even the worst on the list. View it as incompetence, view it as "nobody wants to be there", or view it as "Trump hates checks and balances to his power, hence no Congressional approval". None of these options are redeeming.

Trump wants to run the country like one of his businesses -- inefficient, firing people for no reason, and crashing.

[Dontrike]

Absolutely, but what we were discussing was something else, and you again failed to understand the difference. We discussed reproducibility. Whether something is true or false is orthogonal to it.

No, we were absolutely discussing the research itself being science, that's what this particular argument has been about.

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So let's pretend someone went and counted all the days a Cabinet seat was empty. For example, let's say there were two seats open for five days each. That'd be ten days.

By this point in their first term, W would have 34 days. Makes sense, he kind of inherited a bunch of people.

HW had 87. Again, same.

Obama had 288. Clinton had 322. Both had to start from scratch, so, makes sense they'd take a little longer to fill all those slots.

Trump had one thousand, three hundred ninety seven total days with either acting people, or no people, in the role. Yes, that's more than all of them combined. Or, looked at differently, quadruple even the worst on the list. View it as incompetence, view it as "nobody wants to be there", or view it as "Trump hates checks and balances to his power, hence no Congressional approval". None of these options are redeeming.

Trump wants to run the country like one of his businesses -- inefficient, firing people for no reason, and crashing.

Only the best people....can be in an acting position.

[Flarelaine]

I'm no fan of Russia, but I'll say it again, objectively, if I were Vladimir Putin, I'd dig a ditch and throw everything from the Soviet Legacy in it.

Do you include former KGB agents in Soviet Legacy?

[rda]

No, we were absolutely discussing the research itself being science, that's what this particular argument has been about.

No, we were discussing reproducibility, the starting message was this:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51272689

"How about ongoing Replication Crisis?"

...and you replied to it in:

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post51272737

"So when something can't be replicated suddenly science is destroyed? That means science is still working. Proving something can't be replicated is fucking science. How in the blue motherfucking fuck don't you get that? That's quite literally called the scientific method. [...]"

We are now 5 pages past the start and you just refuse to understand what the crisis is and what reproducibility refers to.

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Will you admit that you were wrong or will we have to go for 5 pages more? 25 more? 500 more?

[Shalcker]

No, we were absolutely discussing the research itself being science, that's what this particular argument has been about.

So, you would agree that study that underpinned "vaccines cause autism" was science?

Were people who believed it right away wrong or right? Should they have been skeptical until those results were replicated, or should they have acted immediately based on available information?

[Flarelaine]

Fuck I knew some asshole trash, either trump or one of his underlings, would try to somehow twist tomorrow to be about him. Fucker couldn't even be assed to do his duty, due to "bone spurs." He has nothing to do with D-Day. He wasn't even alive yet, wtf.

And yet it must be all about him.