The Brexit aftermath thread

[Mormolyce]

I’d be interested to know what your proposed model brexiteer meant by the term “working class traditional communities”. No doubt a little englanders mindset, but your linked vid has been edited to such an extent that it betrays the reality of that particular QT debate.

Non-Polish people working in industries approaching obsolescence is my prediction.

He has struck rather a good point though, which is that the modern left wing struggles to find an identity for itself considering it has drifted so far to the right that it's no longer identifiably the party of the working class, in fact it's really just the right wing lite.

[Vankrys]

https://twitter.com/dannyctkemp/stat...59599802916864

Breaking - EU throws a bone to May - Tusk says will start 'exploratory contacts' with Britain on future relationship *now* - ahead of formal start which had been pencilled in for March

victory for Brexit Britain

you do understand what "throwing a bone" means? It's usually is giving scraps of something in order to appease, a consolation prize.

[ranzino]

If anything the border will be in the Irish Sea and the dup will just have to learn to live with it.

May should have told them earlier, that "no hard border" is more important than their party. all those efforts a weekend ago just because DUP feels triggered.

[Kallisto]

TBH, I don’t see either of those things happening, but how this will be made good I have no idea.

One has to happen and either will implode the Tory party. Either there is a hard border and May will go down as the woman that destroys GFA and potentially reignites the troubles, Conservatives split and become unelectable for a decade. Or she pisses off the hardcore brexit groups in her party with continuous free movement. Her party fractures and becomes unelectable for a decade.

[Vankrys]

If anything the border will be in the Irish Sea and the dup will just have to learn to live with it.

If NI get special treatment, i'm sure Scotland will want the same. They also voted remain, by an even larger margin than NI.

[Slant]

If NI get special treatment, i'm sure Scotland will want the same. They also voted remain, by an even larger margin than NI.

Hmm, I haven't even thought about that. The British Isles are one clusterfuck of historical problems, it seems. It's like Cameron opened Pandorra's Box and nobody has a clue how to close dat shit.

[Vankrys]

Hmm, I haven't even thought about that. The British Isles are one clusterfuck of historical problems, it seems. It's like Cameron opened Pandorra's Box and nobody has a clue how to close dat shit.

Truth be told, i did not come up with it by myself, some scots do see the special arrangements NI got, and get ideas.

https://www.politico.eu/article/scot...e-brexit-deal/
https://www.standard.co.uk/news/poli...-a3710036.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics...manding-groups

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/s...75437764960257

[Slant]

I could accept that criticism from just about anyone, but from a German I’ll take it with a pinch of salt

See, the difference is, we solved our problems. We're everybody's darling now. So fuck your pinch of salt. :P

[Shadowmelded]

If anything the border will be in the Irish Sea and the dup will just have to learn to live with it.

I dunno man, if, like they promised they would, they turn the recent agreement into legislation then that option's fucked.

[ranzino]

I dunno man, if, like they promised they would, they turn the recent agreement into legislation then that option's fucked.

oh, this will be glorious.
as said earlier, UK will technically bind itself to EU with such legislation and becomes a county in the backyard of RoI. EU decrees and UK will have to follow, because RoI's wishes are to accepted.
Brexit my ass !

[Mayhem]

Hmm, I haven't even thought about that. The British Isles are one clusterfuck of historical problems, it seems. It's like Cameron opened Pandorra's Box and nobody has a clue how to close dat shit.

That was already mentioned in this thread prior to vankrys post if memory serves right.

[Slant]

That was already mentioned in this thread prior to vankrys post if memory serves right.

I probably haven't read every post.

[Triks]

Yes, I got that part, but what have the quotes in that post got to do with this?
They do not seem nation-specific to me, but maybe that's just me.
What does make them relevant to "massive cultural differences between Bulgaria and The Netherlands" in your opinion?
That's what I wanted details on.

I get what you were discussing, just not how those quotes tie into it.

- - - Updated - - -



No, a CETA type of deal would therefore require that NI be treated different from the rest of the UK (it would need at least a EEA kind of deal if the GFA is to be kept by the UK, the rest of the UK could have something like CETA).

- - - Updated - - -



Yes, €50bn is quite little, wouldn't you agree?
It is basically pocket change to the EU and even to the UK.

- - - Updated - - -



If no deal is reached then both parties will have to pay for obligations they agreed to in the past--which means the UK will still be paying at least €50bn to the EU.

- - - Updated - - -



We would not resort to calling you names, but you do have a tendency to misread the situation. (Like right now.)

- - - Updated - - -


You did, you just don't understand how your own national democracy works.

- - - Updated - - -



Not necessarily.
There could be extra terms that would then allow for an open border (by adding free movement of people, and possibly services and goods--thus turning it into an EEA type of deal).

- - - Updated - - -



You are delusional, if you think that was the intent.

- - - Updated - - -



It is, all "antidemocratic" parts you whine about are responsibilities of its sovereign member states, they can change the setup of those any time they want--that's why they are sovereign. Something the EU is not.

Sorry for the late response, I have been swamped with work this week.

I can't imagine a Dutch PM telling the UK's PM to "give it to him" and that he will "give her yogurt".

[ranzino]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8114406.html

Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows

Now talk with each other and rethink what you really want and if it's indeed impossible to reach an agreement "in your very own house", then call it off ?
And no, you can call this shitshow no longer "democratic wish of the people". full brakes then and negotiate your stance in EU instead, we would still like to know your opinion after all.

[Slant]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8114406.html

Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows

Now talk with each other and rethink what you really want and if it's indeed impossible to reach an agreement "in your very own house", then call it off ?
And no, you can call this shitshow no longer "democratic wish of the people". full brakes then and negotiate your stance in EU instead, we would still like to know your opinion after all.

I don't think that poll is really representative. Mostly, because it's just a poll.

Part of the democratic process is to accept the vote of the majority and live with the consequences. Public opinion can change,that's why it's okay to have another vote. But to avoid having a vote every week (possibly with a new outcome every week), you should let a little time go by (2 years is hardly enough for such a monumental decision and the effort it involves) or wait for a significant change of the situation that created the vote in the first place (nothing in the nature of the relationship between the EU and the UK has changed at this point).

I do not think overturning the referendum with another referendum is an appropriate course of action for the British. It would make more sense to attack the original referendum, but the British Government has made it clear that they won't do that and consider it a binding vote for them to implement Brexit.

Now, if they didn't have FPTP, they could vote for whichever minority party is going for a Remain stance and express their opinion through that in a meaningful and actually constructive manner. Alas, they only get two parties (basically) and both of them somewhat support the Brexit, so they're fucked whatever they do. The remainers, that is.

Brits can correct me on mistakes, but this seems to be the gist of it, doesn't it?

[Acidbaron]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8114406.html

Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows

Now talk with each other and rethink what you really want and if it's indeed impossible to reach an agreement "in your very own house", then call it off ?
And no, you can call this shitshow no longer "democratic wish of the people". full brakes then and negotiate your stance in EU instead, we would still like to know your opinion after all.

I want an EU wide vote asking every EU citizen if they are allowed back in and i'll gladly campaign for camp NO, if that happens. Enough is enough let them stir in the crap they took, they have been obstructionist enough with their special snowflake attitude. Let them reminisce about the days the common wealth meant something and let them fall further behind since that's the natural order of things.

[Omega10]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a8114406.html

Brexit: Britons now back Remain over Leave by 10 points, exclusive poll shows

Now talk with each other and rethink what you really want and if it's indeed impossible to reach an agreement "in your very own house", then call it off ?
And no, you can call this shitshow no longer "democratic wish of the people". full brakes then and negotiate your stance in EU instead, we would still like to know your opinion after all.

I don't think it matters anymore. The milk is spilt, and it won't go back in the carton. I never in my worst moments though it would turn out as badly as it seems to be going for UK. And if I understand what I am reading, it sounds like the worst is yet to come.

[Rockyreg]

oh, this will be glorious.
as said earlier, UK will technically bind itself to EU with such legislation and becomes a county in the backyard of RoI. EU decrees and UK will have to follow, because RoI's wishes are to accepted.
Brexit my ass !

I think for the last month or so it has been clear that the direction of travel is moving in the direction of a more EEA-like agreement. There may be a slight tweak on this to appear like the EU is giving a concession to help May sell it to us, but the joint report issued last week pretty much shows that is where we'll end up.

I've said before I would be completely happy with this situation. I think it was always unrealistic to assume we could disentangle ourselves from 40 years of EU membership in a couple of years, and there was no incentive at all for the EU to even attempt to do this.

[ranzino]

I don't think that poll is really representative. Mostly, because it's just a poll.

Part of the democratic process is to accept the vote of the majority and live with the consequences. Public opinion can change,that's why it's okay to have another vote. But to avoid having a vote every week (possibly with a new outcome every week), you should let a little time go by (2 years is hardly enough for such a monumental decision and the effort it involves) or wait for a significant change of the situation that created the vote in the first place (nothing in the nature of the relationship between the EU and the UK has changed at this point).

I do not think overturning the referendum with another referendum is an appropriate course of action for the British. It would make more sense to attack the original referendum, but the British Government has made it clear that they won't do that and consider it a binding vote for them to implement Brexit.

Now, if they didn't have FPTP, they could vote for whichever minority party is going for a Remain stance and express their opinion through that in a meaningful and actually constructive manner. Alas, they only get two parties (basically) and both of them somewhat support the Brexit, so they're fucked whatever they do. The remainers, that is.

Brits can correct me on mistakes, but this seems to be the gist of it, doesn't it?

well, what was the leave-to-remain margin in the referendum ? bring more voters to the box and sway some of them and a second ref is in favour of remain perhaps, altough by a small margin only.

[Rockyreg]

I don't think that poll is really representative. Mostly, because it's just a poll.

Part of the democratic process is to accept the vote of the majority and live with the consequences. Public opinion can change,that's why it's okay to have another vote. But to avoid having a vote every week (possibly with a new outcome every week), you should let a little time go by (2 years is hardly enough for such a monumental decision and the effort it involves) or wait for a significant change of the situation that created the vote in the first place (nothing in the nature of the relationship between the EU and the UK has changed at this point).

I do not think overturning the referendum with another referendum is an appropriate course of action for the British. It would make more sense to attack the original referendum, but the British Government has made it clear that they won't do that and consider it a binding vote for them to implement Brexit.

Now, if they didn't have FPTP, they could vote for whichever minority party is going for a Remain stance and express their opinion through that in a meaningful and actually constructive manner. Alas, they only get two parties (basically) and both of them somewhat support the Brexit, so they're fucked whatever they do. The remainers, that is.

Brits can correct me on mistakes, but this seems to be the gist of it, doesn't it?

I think I read somewhere that the poll has increased for remain due to the number of people that didn't vote in the original referendum would now vote remain as opposed to leave by a ratio of 4 to 1. Apparently 9 out of 10 people who did vote in the referendum would still make the same choice now so the country is still divided down the middle on this.

I agree with you that another referendum would not be good. It almost feels like the government is trying to keep the UK as attached to the EU as possible in the short term so they don't want to burn any bridges in the future when public opinion may be too overwhelming for them to ignore.