The Brexit aftermath thread

[Acidbaron]

If the Tories turn around tomorrow and say "We're just not gonna Brexit", the Tories will lose the next election.

Everyone knows we made a mistake, but the people in charge won't stop that mistake, because the only way they have even a chance of staying in charge is pandering to the people who voted to make this mistake.

The current political class is going to be at the end of their career when the brexit takes place, since the economic repercussions will be severe, even in the most optimistic predictions a recession is expected.

I know they are going to blame all bad things from the exit on the EU, but when a year has passed that scapegoat that is no longer really present, knowing very well the whole sales pitch was "we don't need them!", it won't work.

So while i can understand your logic, to me it simply seems to be delaying the execution.

- - - Updated - - -

lol what negotiations. Why are there any at all? Just tell the UK to go shove it and go alone if they want to. We all know that is where this will end up anyways.

Because that would be an equally retarded mindset propelled by the brexiteers. Making you no better than dribbles or floopa.

The economic repercussions will be felt on both sides, this might even effect your line of work. Our economies have been connected ever since globalism was hailed to be the next best thing ever, a road to utopia. But this also means both sides will take losses, the EU will recover faster, individual nations will have a harder time, which is why these talks are happening with the EU as a block and not individual nations such as the UK desired, in an attempt to put nations against each other.

So no its not that simple as "let's just kick them out", not to mention it would play right in their hands of making the EU look like the "big bad wolf"

[Deleted]

The current political class is going to be at the end of their career when the brexit takes place, since the economic repercussions will be severe, even in the most optimistic predictions a recession is expected.

I know they are going to blame all bad things from the exit on the EU, but when a year has passed that scapegoat that is no longer really present, knowing very well the whole sales pitch was "we don't need them!", it won't work.

So while i can understand your logic, to me it simply seems to be delaying the execution.

That's politics in a nutshell though, kick the can further down the road, someone else can deal with it.

[Noradin]

Well, yes. But honestly, you can't get much more baseline democratic than having a general referendum with a relatively simple yes/no question. However flawed the British system may be (and it is), it wouldn't have changed this referendum to lead to a stupid decision.

That is ignoring the context of the whole thing, because the question on paper might have been (too) simple, but the context was what made it complicated.
Just look at why Cameron called for the referendum: Not because he wanted to ask the British their opinion on staying or leaving the EU, but as a political trick to further his own career. And then what the voters did with that poll: They wanted to stick it to him, and to the whole political system of theirs. To make it as close as possible so they could protest without wasting their votes in the general elections where there are just a bad choice, a worse one, and wasting their vote. Unfortunately they overstepped and we all got this mess. Do you think Boris really did want Brexit to win? No, he wanted to stick it to Cameron so he could get his job, otherwise he wouldn't have ducked out immediately after "winning".

So no, this wasn't a simple question at all unless you ignore context, and that context is the abysmal state of the British democracy where there are only two parties that matter due to the way the system is set up and both are just as bad as the other.

[Acidbaron]

That's politics in a nutshell though, kick the can further down the road, someone else can deal with it.

Sadly by keeping our society democratic we need short election cycles so nobody gets rusted into a seat of power, perhaps they are too short and therefor our politicians think too much on the short term. But yes sadly kicking the can down the road is what politics is about nowadays especially with the hourly updates from social media when someone in power farted in the wrong direction and a study bureau making an analysis of how many votes that would cost that person.

[dribbles]

I'd just like to interrupt this happy clapping back slapping celebration of the European democratic way and congratulate our Dutch friends on finally forming a working Government, it only took them 7 months. Some might ask if they didn't need a government for that length of time why bother with one now or even at all.

Tell me, will Germany take such a long time to form a working government coalition too? If so it's time to celebrate for me, by the time there is any leadership in Germany Britain might be out of the EU already.

I agree such a wonderful form of no democracy is practiced across Europe, I can't think for the life of me why we don't have or want it in the UK.

Sadly by keeping our society democratic we need short election cycles so nobody gets rusted into a seat of power, perhaps they are too short and therefor our politicians think too much on the short term. But yes sadly kicking the can down the road is what politics is about nowadays especially with the hourly updates from social media when someone in power farted in the wrong direction and a study bureau making an analysis of how many votes that would cost that person.

Tell me Monsieur Baron (hehe) if many Europeans took up your idea of a shorter election cycle, let us say perhaps one year terms, you could end up with never having any government whatsoever across most of Europe? Wow, no democracy at all is the most superior? No wonder Europe is in a mess.

Toodle pip!

[Mayhem]

I can't think for the life of me.

Yeah, everyone is aware of that.

[dribbles]

Yeah, everyone is aware of that.

If you say so my friend from the mountains, I adore your country and method of governance, a wonderful place where the rich stay rich and the poor get poorer.

With no inheritance tax life for the wealthy must be wonderful, for them. Tell me is that a new EU wide policy?

[Acidbaron]

Tell me Monsieur Baron (hehe) if many Europeans took up your idea of a shorter election cycle, let us say perhaps one year terms, you could end up with never having any government whatsoever across most of Europe? Wow, no democracy at all is the most superior? No wonder Europe is in a mess.

Toodle pip!

Try reading what i wrote before responding since that's not what i said. Than again you are merely a caricature of a person so.

[Deleted]

Tell me Monsieur Baron (hehe) if many Europeans took up your idea of a shorter election cycle, let us say perhaps one year terms, you could end up with never having any government whatsoever across most of Europe? Wow, no democracy at all is the most superior? No wonder Europe is in a mess.

Toodle pip!

Except that isn't what he said at all. He said (quite rightly) that one of the major flaws of Democracy as we know it in the West is that politicians think only in the short term because they are only in power for a short (relatively) amount of time.

Now that doesn't make the alternative of life longer dictators any better, but it is a solid criticism of western democracy.

[dribbles]

Except that isn't what he said at all. He said (quite rightly) that one of the major flaws of Democracy as we know it in the West is that politicians think only in the short term because they are only in power for a short (relatively) amount of time.

Now that doesn't make the alternative of life longer dictators any better, but it is a solid criticism of western democracy.

Not really the case in the UK, political lifespans cross generations which can hardly be termed short. Neil Kinnock - Stephen Kinnock, Tony Benn - Hillary Benn I am sure there are many others.

[Deleted]

Not really the case in the UK, political lifespans cross generations which can hardly be termed short. Neil Kinnock - Stephen Kinnock, Tony Benn - Hillary Benn I am sure there are many others.

I'm not sure but I think you just tried to use nepotism to defend democracy.

[dribbles]

I'm not sure but I think you just tried to use nepotism to defend democracy.

Not really, though isn't that precisely what the house of lords is for? Certainly not in the commons where MP's face their electorate every few years for revalidation.

[Noradin]

Tell me, will Germany take such a long time to form a working government coalition too? If so it's time to celebrate for me, by the time there is any leadership in Germany Britain might be out of the EU already.

You are aware that there is an acting government in Germany right now, aren't you?
Or does that not count as "leadership" in your eyes?

[Mayhem]

If you say so my friend from the mountains, I adore your country and method of governance, a wonderful place where the rich stay rich and the poor get poorer.

With no inheritance tax life for the wealthy must be wonderful, for them. Tell me is that a new EU wide policy?

You're ahead of us in wealth inequality, so you tell me.

[ranzino]

You are aware that there is an acting government in Germany right now, aren't you?
Or does that not count as "leadership" in your eyes?

well, the one party of the still sitting government is now also opposition leader in parliament. government runs the day-to-day business, nothing real substantial. basically "lame duck" months until the new cabinet is sworn in.

[Noradin]

well, the one party of the still sitting government is now also opposition leader in parliament. government runs the day-to-day business, nothing real substantial. basically "lame duck" months until the new cabinet is sworn in.

And yet they are much more effective than the government of the UK.

[cubby]

Exactly, that's not what's happening. Gee, wonder why... you've just confirmed what I'm saying. I really don't know why you still argue against me.

The above response makes no sense. Please try and stay on topic and dive not into some delusional "i'm right!" diatrbie. You sound ridiculous and look like an idiot.

I'm arguing with you because you're wrong - Britain will not be reversing "every piece of legislation from the previous government" - as you claim in your hysterical infinitives. Just one. Brexit. That's why it should happen. Because it's ok for people to change their mind.

Let us know why you think changing your mind is a bad idea for governments, though - you have still never really answered that question.

[ranzino]

And yet they are much more effective than the government of the UK.

we'll see, new government is not expected to form before christmas hits, which means no real work before january 6th. nobody will hold a session so late in year to swear in.

[dribbles]

You're ahead of us in wealth inequality, so you tell me.

We would be though, so many potless european refugees flooding in, that Brexit intends to stem, tends to skew the figures. Perhaps we need to take a leaf out of the Visegrad book on ways to deal with this. How is your potential membership of that group coming along btw? is it a fair price to pay for your coalition - seems a bit extreme for Austria to be a member, all those right wingers you know. Oh well needs must I suppose, glad we don't have that democratic system in the UK, so many extremist lunatics end up in government.

You are aware that there is an acting government in Germany right now, aren't you?
Or does that not count as "leadership" in your eyes?

Don't we know it. What use is a government of actors? What's wrong with the real thing, why does it take so long for such a simple thing? If you didnt have so many loose factions it might be simpler and superior.

Actors running Germany, drunks running Brussels, no wonder the EU is a mess.

[Noradin]

Don't we know it. What use is a government of actors? What's wrong with the real thing, why does it take so long for such a simple thing? If you didnt have so many loose factions it might be simpler and superior.

Actors running Germany, drunks running Brussels, no wonder the EU is a mess.

You're being too obvious, are you even trying at this point?