Sauce for the Goose - Manafort Up to Eyeballs in Russian Collusion

[Orbitus]

Oh I am sure there is a big show going on in Washington for the dejected to circlejerk over.

Considering the vast reach of our domestic spying, I'd be shocked if at this point nothing damning has turned up.

5 investigations and 2 grand juries is a "big show"?

[maomoa]

Oh I am sure there is a big show going on in Washington for the dejected to circlejerk over.

Considering the vast reach of our domestic spying, I'd be shocked if at this point nothing damning has turned up.

Is it really domestic spying when it's a criminal investigation? This is the argument you're basing your defense on?

[Theodarzna]

Is it really domestic spying when it's a criminal investigation? This is the argument you're basing your defense on?

I assume everything is being spied on by the NSA. I find it hard to believe that this far in the smoking gun hasn't been found.

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5 investigations and 2 grand juries is a "big show"?

How much nothing happened over Benghazi? An equally trivial partisan fake witch hunt.

[Thepersona]

I assume everything is being spied on by the NSA.

How much nothing happened over Benghazi? An equally trivial partisan fake witch hunt.

Lol, i laugh at you. the scope of Benghazi and this investigation are completely different. The Russian investigation is manned by one of the best (if not THE best) legal teams that the US has to offer. Also, a lot of the info is not publicly available (and the info that is open to the people, is damning enough).

[fengosa]

How much nothing happened over Benghazi? An equally trivial partisan fake witch hunt.

Funny I don't remember anyone perjuring themselves over Benghazi the way Jeff Sessions has. That's not how innocent people behave.

[Theodarzna]

Lol, i laugh at you. the scope of Benghazi and this investigation are completely different. The Russian investigation is manned by one of the best (if not THE best) legal teams that the US has to offer. Also, a lot of the info is not publicly available (and the info that is open to the people, is damning enough).

Yes, I am not surprised considering the array of vested interests and Deep State actors pissed off that we don't have boots on the ground in Syria, Iran or wherever. Versus Benghazi which was just butthurt Republicans grasping at straws.

[Felya]

Yes, I am not surprised considering the array of vested interests and Deep State actors pissed off that we don't have boots on the ground in Syria, Iran or wherever. Versus Benghazi which was just butthurt Republicans grasping at straws.

Are you saying the all powerful Deep State was upset it couldn't get what it wanted under Obama president and Hillary Secretary of State? I thought you believed Hillary was a war monger? Is she and Obama not part of this Deep State? Am I in it?

[unfilteredJW]

Are you saying the all powerful Deep State was upset it couldn't get what it wanted under Obama president and Hillary Secretary of State? I thought you believed Hillary was a war monger? Is she and Obama not part of this Deep State? Am I in it?

If your asking for some sort of consistency in their narrative, you'll be left wanting.

[Felya]

If your asking for some sort of consistency in their narrative, you'll be left wanting.

The Deep State is so deep, it put your ass to sleep.

[Thepersona]

If your asking for some sort of consistency in their narrative, you'll be left wanting.

That's being generous. Her answer was a weird deflection

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Are you saying the all powerful Deep State was upset it couldn't get what it wanted under Obama president and Hillary Secretary of State? I thought you believed Hillary was a war monger? Is she and Obama not part of this Deep State? Am I in it?

Does she know that the deep state doesnt exist, as the right wing media wants to portrait it?

[Mormolyce]

Yes, I am not surprised considering the array of vested interests and Deep State actors pissed off that we don't have boots on the ground in Syria, Iran or wherever.

Are we talking "deep state" in the sense of career civil servants or "deep state" in the nutbar conspiracy theory sense here?

[Theodarzna]

Are we talking "deep state" in the sense of career civil servants or "deep state" in the nutbar conspiracy theory sense here?

Entrenched civil servants, though I guess the Military Industrial Complex is as close to X-Files style cabal you will get.

[Thepersona]

Entrenched civil servants, though I guess the Military Industrial Complex is as close to X-Files style cabal you will get.

So... the second category then? i mean, i understand the problem with the military industrial complex, but career civil servants aren't a part of a giant conspiracy. At most, you could say that they're laughably slow and incompetent

[Theodarzna]

So... the second category then? i mean, i understand the problem with the military industrial complex, but career civil servants aren't a part of a giant conspiracy. At most, you could say that they're laughably slow and incompetent

The problem with the National Security Consensus runs deep and is probably the most difficult thing about the "Establishment" today. Mainly that the media hasn't seen a war it didn't like and many Senators and Congressmen and Agencies that today SOME liberals cheer and clap for are the most war hungry people on the planet with deranged ideas and imperialistic ambitions.

The problem is their bad ideas have killed lots of people and continue to do so.

[Mormolyce]

The problem with the National Security Consensus runs deep and is probably the most difficult thing about the "Establishment" today. Mainly that the media hasn't seen a war it didn't like and many Senators and Congressmen and Agencies that today SOME liberals cheer and clap for are the most war hungry people on the planet with deranged ideas and imperialistic ambitions.

The problem is their bad ideas have killed lots of people and continue to do so.

What if I told you that the US's continuous national security/foreign policy agenda is not the doing of any shadowy civil servants or members of any group or cabal, but rather a direct result of the realpolitik necessary to survive in office in the US given the social pressures exerted by its own citizens?

There's no dragon you can slay that will fix it. You have to change the minds of millions of Americans.

[Theodarzna]

What if I told you that the US's continuous national security/foreign policy agenda is not the doing of any shadowy civil servants or members of any group or cabal, but rather a direct result of the realpolitik necessary to survive in office in the US given the social pressures exerted by its own citizens?

There's no dragon you can slay that will fix it. You have to change the minds of millions of Americans.

That is going to be the result of the internal culture within the government. I also said it wasn't a cabal but that there is a DC culture, a DC Consensus, that needs to be smashed to pieces IMHO.

[Edge-]

Entrenched civil servants, though I guess the Military Industrial Complex is as close to X-Files style cabal you will get.

Yeah, all those diplomats all over the world who have served under multiple administrations and are lamenting the disassembly of the department...curse you deep state!

[unfilteredJW]

Yeah, all those diplomats all over the world who have served under multiple administrations and are lamenting the disassembly of the department...curse you deep state!

It's like when a child learns a dirty word on a playground, and just repeats it ad nauseum.

[Evil Midnight Bomber]

It's like when a child learns a dirty word on a playground, and just repeats it ad nauseum.

Something like this I imagine:

[Mormolyce]

That is going to be the result of the internal culture within the government. I also said it wasn't a cabal but that there is a DC culture, a DC Consensus, that needs to be smashed to pieces IMHO.

That internal culture is a direct reflection of the real state of affairs in the US. What shapes the culture in DC is how afraid people are that an action will get them booted.