(SPOILERS ) How Powerful is Argus the Unmaker? Like, seriously?

[Evangeliste]

What you just here, is why Sargeras is my favorite WoW Villain.

Me too actually! When I put these pieces together it was like a "hoooooooly fuuuuuck" moment for me. The dude has been playing his own minions for something even they won't want to happen.

[TheFirstOnes]

Me too actually! When I put these pieces together it was like a "hoooooooly fuuuuuck" moment for me. The dude has been playing his own minions for something even they won't want to happen.

Yeah. Honestly, Sargeras is one of those rare kind of Villains, ya know? While the Lich king did make Number 1 for me from Wrath to now, Sargeras is just way above him. Not only do we hear badass stories about him, and not only is he cunning, smart, deceiving, and shit with his Plans, but...allow me to say this:

WE NEVER SEE HIM UNTIL THE VERY END!

If you're a Villain leading an immortal Demonic Army, and you've done these things: 1. Kill the Gods. 2. Attempt at making, or make a New Pantheon. 3. Get to your World. 4. Not die even at the end. 5. Make a badass voice. 6. Not taunt like most of the Villain tropes. 6. Have your Minions/Right Hand Peeps fight your enemies at the end (Without you having to do it yourself). And 7. Get Jailed, and not Die (Even though you're the main enemy), then you're the most badass Villain ever.

Must I mention the Seat of the Pantheon music (Specifically the Third Track, with the Dark God-like Music)? Yeah, Sargeras even has an amazing theme.

I think the thing Sargeras has, that the Lich king doesn't have, is this: When you saw the Lich King, he either sent his minions to get you, taunt you, express his Power against you, and chase you down. That alone is badass on itself.

However, for Sargeras, all it takes is words, and you already known his might. You already know fear just by the Name. This is the guy that defeated the Pantheon, the guy that makes the Old Gods shit themselves, as well the guy that makes the Creator of the Lich King himself feel like a Speck towards a Galaxy. You don't need to hear his voice, nor do you need to see him. His name alone makes the People of Azeroth quiver. Remember, this was the same being that created the WoTA, that created the Draenor BS, he's the same guy whose Avatar is stuck at the ToS. He's also the same guy that caused TBC, The Wrathion BS in MoP, Wrath, and 6.2 in WoD to happen. He's also the same guy whose very Legion killed our King/Warchief.

He's also the bastard that made Tirion himself seem like a cuck.

This is why Sargeras is my Favorite Villain. And this is why the Void Lords will NEVER fucking compare to Sargeras.

[Evangeliste]

Yeah. Honestly, Sargeras is one of those rare kind of Villains, ya know? While the Lich king did make Number 1 for me from Wrath to now, Sargeras is just way above him. Not only do we hear badass stories about him, and not only is he cunning, smart, deceiving, and shit with his Plans, but...allow me to say this:

WE NEVER SEE HIM UNTIL THE VERY END!

If you're a Villain leading an immortal Demonic Army, and you've done these things: 1. Kill the Gods. 2. Attempt at making, or make a New Pantheon. 3. Get to your World. 4. Not die even at the end. 5. Make a badass voice. 6. Not taunt like most of the Villain tropes. 6. Have your Minions/Right Hand Peeps fight your enemies at the end (Without you having to do it yourself). And 7. Get Jailed, and not Die (Even though you're the main enemy), then you're the most badass Villain ever.

Must I mention the Seat of the Pantheon music (Specifically the Third Track, with the Dark God-like Music)? Yeah, Sargeras even has an amazing theme.

I think the thing Sargeras has, that the Lich king doesn't have, is this: When you saw the Lich King, he either sent his minions to get you, taunt you, express his Power against you, and chase you down. That alone is badass on itself.

However, for Sargeras, all it takes is words, and you already known his might. You already know fear just by the Name. This is the guy that defeated the Pantheon, the guy that makes the Old Gods shit themselves, as well the guy that makes the Creator of the Lich King himself feel like a Speck towards a Galaxy. You don't need to hear his voice, nor do you need to see him. His name alone makes the People of Azeroth quiver. Remember, this was the same being that created the WoTA, that created the Draenor BS, he's the same guy whose Avatar is stuck at the ToS. He's also the same guy that caused TBC, The Wrathion BS in MoP, Wrath, and 6.2 in WoD to happen. He's also the same guy whose very Legion killed our King/Warchief.

He's also the bastard that made Tirion himself seem like a cuck.

This is why Sargeras is my Favorite Villain. And this is why the Void Lords will NEVER fucking compare to Sargeras.

I have to agree on all of it. Without Sargeras there ultimately would be no World of Warcraft which is really scary to think of. The only problem I will find is this all could be shattered with a single shitty visual representation of him... Which is why I think they've refused to reveal how he looks now compared to him being non-Fel.

Which I think the Void Lords will basically pick up. What Sargeras has in persona, the Void Lords will have that same gravitas in looks. Since to be honest, they could go fucking mental on those guys and with enough malignancy in it... Well that will be their selling point. Which is sad because the Void Lords are so enigmatic and juvenile in development you'd hope they'd be on the same badass level as Sargeras but time will tell!

[TheFirstOnes]

I have to agree on all of it. Without Sargeras there ultimately would be no World of Warcraft which is really scary to think of. The only problem I will find is this all could be shattered with a single shitty visual representation of him... Which is why I think they've refused to reveal how he looks now compared to him being non-Fel.

Which I think the Void Lords will basically pick up. What Sargeras has in persona, the Void Lords will have that same gravitas in looks. Since to be honest, they could go fucking mental on those guys and with enough malignancy in it... Well that will be their selling point. Which is sad because the Void Lords are so enigmatic and juvenile in development you'd hope they'd be on the same badass level as Sargeras but time will tell!

They'll likely make Sargeras how he looks in the Key Art: http://wow.zamimg.com/images/guide/7...-1600x2311.jpg

However, for the Void Lords: I bet ya 100%, that there is a COUNCIL of them. Meaning, 5-6 in Total, with the main guy being the True Final Boss. Maybe there's a Chaotic one, there's a Female manipulative one, a corrupter, and so forth (Like the Old Gods, but let nightmarish). However, the Main Guy with likely be both Intelligent, Strong, Cunning, Deceiving, and Similar to that of Sargeras. However, if this is the case, then I'd want him to have a Humanoid form with Galaxies and Universes in his body. Why? Idfk, but it'd look badass.


Think of Sargeras as Satan/The Devil, and The Void lords as...well...your last step to becoming everything, or the big bang, or some asspull Blizzard will make.

[Evangeliste]

They'll likely make Sargeras how he looks in the Key Art: http://wow.zamimg.com/images/guide/7...-1600x2311.jpg

However, for the Void Lords: I bet ya 100%, that there is a COUNCIL of them. Meaning, 5-6 in Total, with the main guy being the True Final Boss. Maybe there's a Chaotic one, there's a Female manipulative one, a corrupter, and so forth (Like the Old Gods, but let nightmarish). However, the Main Guy with likely be both Intelligent, Strong, Cunning, Deceiving, and Similar to that of Sargeras. However, if this is the case, then I'd want him to have a Humanoid form with Galaxies and Universes in his body. Why? Idfk, but it'd look badass.


Think of Sargeras as Satan/The Devil, and The Void lords as...well...your last step to becoming everything, or the big bang, or some asspull Blizzard will make.

I honestly hope they don't go with that really. I mean it's cool but it doesn't look that close to the non-Fel one if you get me. But I guess they can edit it a little, it honestly does depend on what they do because he could change even further after that having been well jailed. He could basically become severed from his own magic because really... How does Sargeras harness that flow? It's not really been explained at how he got involved with it personally or how it communes with him directly.

But yeah I reckon there will be a council like how the Old Gods work... I kinda hope not for like the embodiment of the universe because then I'm not sure how the Naaru would really work then? Since the universe from a real-life understanding viewpoint - the universe is an endless sea of black with objects of light in it. That would mean darkness will forever best the light and whatever Sargeras does, will all be for naught in some way.

[LarryWithTheWeatherReport]

Sargeras seems like a very smart villain especially after hearing his voice in the 7.2 trailer but he sounded dumber when he was speaking to Aggramar. His calm and intelligent sounding voice in the 7.2 trailer was much better and he should had kept that voice.

[OIS]

But they are being curbstomped because basically the head of it all aka Sargeras clearly gives zero fucks anymore.

Sure, it's a plausible explanation. Except it doesn't explain why the Legion have launched an invasion if the Dark Pantheon was Sargeras' master plan. I would understand if he needed to extract Titan souls from Keepers, or the Pillars of Creation. But neither happened. He didn't need anything from Azeroth, and all he got with this invasion that was supposed to be greater than the one at War of the Ancients and not a miserable failure is meddlesome kids wrecking stuff in his lawn. Why would you provoke a bee hive if you don't want them near your pet project? It's not like we were planning to take the fight to Argus before the Legion's invasion. Wait until the Titan souls are corrupted, form the Dark Pantheon. Who can stop you after that?

Or are we supposed to believe that Sargeras stumbled upon the souls of the Pantheon literally moments before we arrived on Argus?

[Evangeliste]

Sure, it's a plausible explanation. Except it doesn't explain why the Legion have launched an invasion if the Dark Pantheon was Sargeras' master plan. I would understand if he needed to extract Titan souls from Keepers, or the Pillars of Creation. But neither happened. He didn't need anything from Azeroth, and all he got with this invasion that was supposed to be greater than the one at War of the Ancients and not a miserable failure is meddlesome kids wrecking stuff in his lawn. Why would you provoke a bee hive if you don't want them near your pet project? It's not like we were planning to take the fight to Argus before the Legion's invasion. Wait until the Titan souls are corrupted, form the Dark Pantheon. Who can stop you after that?

Or are we supposed to believe that Sargeras stumbled upon the souls of the Pantheon literally moments before we arrived on Argus?

Well if you mean invasion on Azeroth, well Legion basically details their 3rd time... As I already said in the big wall it's a ploy. Sargeras is using the Burning Legion as a means to torture and torment Azeroth who is already in turmoil and in a weakened state since well the Magni scenario demonstrates the strife that Azeroth is already in thanks to the Void Lords/Old Gods and before that, using Magni as a speaker.

Sargeras is manipulating everything from every angle and using what is laid out to his advantage. What you're missing with "didn't need anything from Azeroth", ignores the very thing he wants, which is Azeroth herself. She is the strongest Titan in all existence. She would be single most important addition to his Dark Pantheon and the best fighting power against the Void Lords, to end life as we know and such. Everything that happens on her and within her celestial gestation will affect her directly and already has, it's why she is still nascent. If you look at Argus as an example, with it broken open... That's because Argus the Titan was actually born and that's what will happen to Azeroth with enough of whatever Sargeras did to pop out Argus.

He doesn't need to extract fragments of souls from the Keepers when in Antorus he actually has them as a semblance of whole already. Why would he need to get pennies when he's holding the bank vault?
We don't know exactly how the time overlaps exactly which will probably be cleaned up with Vol. 3 of Chronicles since with it having Tyrande on the front is going to include WoTA but this will be that time when we need to when exactly he got the Titan Souls like Aman'thul and co. but it's certainly well before we arrive on Argus. But him getting to Azeroth is probably a goal he long wanted considering when he was a normal Titan he would know of her existence and what that bodes already.

Which is like you read nothing of what I said. Burning Legion are going through the motions that they've always done. Conquer planets and destroy life. They are having a 3rd try at Azeroth because they believe it will bow with enough time and might, but... It wasn't the Burning Legion who directly bridged a gap between Argus and Azeroth. That was Illidan and the Sargerite Crystal, coupled with Velen giving us a working ship to even space travel to get to Argus, without him leading the fight to return in kind all the shit the Burning Legion gave them over the 25,000 years from their departure of Argus then we wouldn't be in their faces doing anything like before with WoTA.
So I'm not even sure where you're going with that. It took Velen and the Draenei over 20,000 years to leave Argus and arrive on Azeroth. Sargeras is so far removed from the reality and always have been, which is why firstly he keeps looking the other way... And secondly, only joins the fray himself indirectly through Argus because it literally takes people to be that close for Sargeras to take out his head out of his arrogant arse.

As I said before, it clearly supports that Sargeras was sending Burning Legion to piss off and meddle with Azeroth herself based on his evidence of turning Argus into the puddle of mess that he is. Along the way, Burning Legion are doing their thing and powering along without even needed his supervision considering the Kil'Jaeden cinematic where the cocky Eredar shuts transmission off with Sargeras without any form of backlash whatsoever. Bit unusual for Sargeras who fear mongered all of the demons to do his bidding or die. Actually even the Eredar were basically given that option hence the Naaru stepping in. And Antorus, it's a massive prison to hand out punishment for any failure... The Eredar who die on Argus say "I will see punishment for this in Antorus".
That's how far Sargeras has grown distant from the Burning Legion. Sargeras is casting it off and probably has done for a long while. Also supports that Kil'Jaeden basically points out that Sargeras is not doing what he said with speaking of "our destiny" in this cinematic from 2.05 onwards. Sargeras clearly has drifted away from the original intention from what Kil'Jaeden is saying. And his reactions too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FU4AoMukT9k

While Burning Legion are self-sustaining, Sargeras obviously made Aggramar and found the Titan Souls and as we see in Antorus, is already trying to fuck them up and made them synthetic bodies to boot like Aggramar. Sargeras only admits we are a serious problem when he joins the fray with Argus and ultimately it gets fucked up by Illidan sticking his nose in it and his Titanic brethren working against Sargeras and Argus. In a bid to finally help turn Azeroth to his suspect cause, he stabs Azeroth. She's bleeding like a fucker attracting every shark in the spacey sea. And that was taken from MMO-C first page where the VO from Aman'thul says in a nutcase, her bleeding will attract every power hungry dude going.
And, if ever fucker is attacking from all sides, potentially every life on Azeroth will be killed who prevent Azeroth from harm, mentally destroy Azeroth and be for Sargeras taking when he breaks free in his mind. I doubt Sargeras even believes a Night Elf and his brethren will stop him or deter him from his ultimate goal of annihilation. Or even keep him contained for long. Don't forget Sargeras is one huge ass arrogant fuck, probably the biggest arrogant fucker ever really.

[telygroar]

Its just the name. If it can end all thing, why the fuck they were doing all the burning crusade stuff ? I mean, sargeras or him has just to sit in a corner of the universe and BOOM everything and GG.

[Evangeliste]

Its just the name. If it can end all thing, why the fuck they were doing all the burning crusade stuff ? I mean, Sargeras or him has just to sit in a corner of the universe and BOOM everything and GG.

The problem is when lore and game collides you get stupid shit like this.

I would pretty much dismiss it in terms of lore or downscale it in a sense that he could effectively shut down that area but not all of it. And view it as a sensationalise game mechanic much like Algalon was with his Re-orgination spell was meant to be like the similar end of ends dramatic effect.

[Taeldorian]

For a being on the level of a Titan or similar class I don't think the logistics of weapon balance or surface area really matter - he'd probably be just as a lethal with a rock or a string of Origami cranes. The choice of scythe is really just to cement that death association, it's a projection more than a martial decision. It needs a Staff version, though - my Warlock could really get behind having this as a weapon appearance.

You have no idea how hyped I am to get this on my Paladin.

Fits the challenge mode appearances perfectly and looks so sexy. I’m assuming the blue version is LFR(?) normal/heroic and the red version is mythic since the Death Titan phase is mythic only and it’s when argus gets completely red apparently.

OT: I think it’s just the name. I mean he is definitely the most powerful being we’ve fought so far since he’s either The Titan of Chaos or The Titan of Reality. Either way he’s extremely powerful. I’m glad we finally get an encounter where we are shown to be weaker than our enemy and without the titans help we’d be dead.

[Stormspellz]

par for the course when you consider we are fighting magic space ship armadas with swords.

[Deleted]

Well if you mean invasion on Azeroth, well Legion basically details their 3rd time... As I already said in the big wall it's a ploy. Sargeras is using the Burning Legion as a means to torture and torment Azeroth who is already in turmoil and in a weakened state since well the Magni scenario demonstrates the strife that Azeroth is already in thanks to the Void Lords/Old Gods and before that, using Magni as a speaker.

That's pure speculation to fill in a major plot hole in the writing. There is not a single indication of this.

Sargeras is manipulating everything from every angle and using what is laid out to his advantage. What you're missing with "didn't need anything from Azeroth", ignores the very thing he wants, which is Azeroth herself. She is the strongest Titan in all existence. She would be single most important addition to his Dark Pantheon and the best fighting power against the Void Lords, to end life as we know and such. Everything that happens on her and within her celestial gestation will affect her directly and already has, it's why she is still nascent. If you look at Argus as an example, with it broken open... That's because Argus the Titan was actually born and that's what will happen to Azeroth with enough of whatever Sargeras did to pop out Argus.

He could have done all that after his dark pantheon is finished. You don't go start a war with potato cannons if you have WMD's ready in a year.



The rest of your post has no mention of why anyone would invade Azeroth before the Dark Pantheon is ready. Even if you say KJ attacked Azeroth on his own because he didn't know about the Dark Pantheon, then Sargeras is a moron for not telling his 2nd in command about his amazing plan, doesn't sound like a very smart thing to do if your entire goal is to save the universe.

There is exact 0 reason for the Legion to have invaded Azeroth at this point in time.

[OIS]

snip

I don't know if we need seriously long explanations for this game's pretty obvious glory fatigue. I see your point, I'm just not buying it. I didn't even talk about Sargeras in my first post, I talked about the Burning Legion. Whatever the Burning Legion is planning, it's not working. And why should I care or ponder about why it isn't working when all I see in the game is it's because they are getting their asses kicked at every turn? It was advertised at Gamescom that Legion will be their biggest invasion yet but what do we have so far? Nothing. No major victories since the pre-expansion event. Their leaders have been defeated. And now they are being invaded themselves. They have been told that they even suck at their portal making. Lorewise, this expansion did everything it could to emasculate the Burning Legion and it's going well.

It's just Iron Horde 2 electric boogaloo now in stores. I expected an invasion that would make us shit our collective pants, but alas, my underwear is clean as ever.

[Jastall]

Sure, it's a plausible explanation. Except it doesn't explain why the Legion have launched an invasion if the Dark Pantheon was Sargeras' master plan. I would understand if he needed to extract Titan souls from Keepers, or the Pillars of Creation. But neither happened. He didn't need anything from Azeroth, and all he got with this invasion that was supposed to be greater than the one at War of the Ancients and not a miserable failure is meddlesome kids wrecking stuff in his lawn. Why would you provoke a bee hive if you don't want them near your pet project? It's not like we were planning to take the fight to Argus before the Legion's invasion. Wait until the Titan souls are corrupted, form the Dark Pantheon. Who can stop you after that?

Or are we supposed to believe that Sargeras stumbled upon the souls of the Pantheon literally moments before we arrived on Argus?

Well Sargeras still wants Azeroth, and it's not like the invasion was half assed. They had at least 3 different victory conditions (beat us by attrition during initial invasion, Gul'dan bringing his boss into Illidan's body, KJ activating the Avatar) which mostly failed because we're the player characters and thus cannot lose. And even beyond that, he still has the Dark Pantheon master plan if things go wrong. It took an unfortunate series of events (Illidan revived, him re-engineering (?) the Sargerite Keystone, us having ultra powerful Artifacts, the Army of the Light existing, Archi/KJ leaving their plot coupons lying around...) for us to even get close to defeating said master plan, and we're have failed in the end if not for the Titans themselves.

Sargeras's plans are actually decent. Much better than the Lich King's ''let's bring the most powerful mortals in the world, along with the greatest Paladin, to the one place where I can be killed rofl am a genius'' shtick if you ask me. They just ended up as the inevitable casualty of this being, well, Sargeras and his victory meaning that the game ends completely.

[OIS]

Well Sargeras still wants Azeroth, and it's not like the invasion was half assed. They had at least 3 different victory conditions (beat us by attrition during initial invasion, Gul'dan bringing his boss into Illidan's body, KJ activating the Avatar) which mostly failed because we're the player characters and thus cannot lose. And even beyond that, he still has the Dark Pantheon master plan if things go wrong. It took an unfortunate series of events (Illidan revived, him re-engineering (?) the Sargerite Keystone, us having ultra powerful Artifacts, the Army of the Light existing, Archi/KJ leaving their plot coupons lying around...) for us to even get close to defeating said master plan, and we're have failed in the end if not for the Titans themselves.

Sargeras's plans are actually decent. Much better than the Lich King's ''let's bring the most powerful mortals in the world, along with the greatest Paladin, to the one place where I can be killed rofl am a genius'' shtick if you ask me. They just ended up as the inevitable casualty of this being, well, Sargeras and his victory meaning that the game ends completely.

That's why I agreed with the guy saying that the Legion should have destroyed Draenor in WoD. It would blindside everyone, it would end the expansion in a villain victory but since it's not our timeline the game can continue despite the players being defeated. Too bad Blizzard sparked the "is Archimonde really dead" argument instead.

Sargeras still wants Azeroth, sure, but I'm starting to think that he planned this whole thing while stroking a boner for her. You know, not enough blood for brain activities and all that. He certainly did not think a few things through.

[Dagoth Ur]

That's pure speculation to fill in a major plot hole in the writing. There is not a single indication of this.



He could have done all that after his dark pantheon is finished. You don't go start a war with potato cannons if you have WMD's ready in a year.



The rest of your post has no mention of why anyone would invade Azeroth before the Dark Pantheon is ready. Even if you say KJ attacked Azeroth on his own because he didn't know about the Dark Pantheon, then Sargeras is a moron for not telling his 2nd in command about his amazing plan, doesn't sound like a very smart thing to do if your entire goal is to save the universe.

There is exact 0 reason for the Legion to have invaded Azeroth at this point in time.

It's probably because we knew Gul'dan was sent to our Azeroth and Legion didn't want to risk waiting for him to get caught. Better to open portal asap.
If we somehow killed Gul'dan Legion wouldn't be able to invade in the first place.

Sargeras probably didn't expect in his wildest dreams that we'll be invading Argus in the end so he didn't worry about finishing with Dark Pantheon even if he could have waited to be safe.

Initial invasion was probablly supposed to keep us busy until Sargy finishes Dark Pantheon.

[Jastall]

That's why I agreed with the guy saying that the Legion should have destroyed Draenor in WoD. It would blindside everyone, it would end the expansion in a villain victory but since it's not our timeline the game can continue despite the players being defeated. Too bad Blizzard sparked the "is Archimonde really dead" argument instead.

Sargeras still wants Azeroth, sure, but I'm starting to think that he planned this whole thing while stroking a boner for her. You know, not enough blood for brain activities and all that. He certainly did not think a few things through.

Well villains that think everything through win, and Warcraft has literally never been that kind of story nor should it aspire to be IMO.

I do think destroying Draenor would have been kinda cool, and put to rest all the ''why aren't X helping us?'' plot holes. But it might also make the xpack feel largely pointless.

[Deleted]

It's probably because we knew Gul'dan was sent to our Azeroth and Legion didn't want to risk waiting for him to get caught. Better to open portal asap.
If we somehow killed Gul'dan Legion wouldn't be able to invade in the first place.

Sargeras probably didn't expect in his wildest dreams that we'll be invading Argus in the end so he didn't worry about finishing with Dark Pantheon even if he could have waited to be safe.

Initial invasion was probablly supposed to keep us busy until Sargy finishes Dark Pantheon.

But Gul'dan was most likely on a legion world after hellfire citadel. He wouldn't just have appeared on Azeroth after going through that portal. He would have received some briefings about his mission Azeroth.

While sarageras probably wouldn't expect us to be able to counter invade (rightfully so, because it's bullshit we can.), there still is no reason to attack Azeroth since they were invading other planets already, why not finish those up if you really need to send your troops somewhere?

Well villains that think everything through win, and Warcraft has literally never been that kind of story nor should it aspire to be IMO..

Don't think anyone is asking for villains to be all-knowing, but they should at least have average intelligence. Right now we win because our enemy suffers some mental disability when the plot needs it instead of winning because we exploited their weakness or gained some advantage. It feels as much as a win as beating a toddler in chess feels like a win.

[Hctaz]

After reading Argus' End of all things ability, something hit me. HOW POWERFUL IS THIS FUCKER?! How can you end all of Creation in 15 seconds? If WoW's Universe has infinite timelines, and shit, and if Argus was trying to end ALL of Creation, then this guy should be near impossible to defeat. Sure, we have the Pantheon spirits to help us...

But, Argus is not only a Titan, but Sargeras is also (In my eyes) empowering him. I can't fight that. I'm sorry. It's like fighting Sargeras himself...but...worse. It's fucked up.

I'm not seeing the End of All Things ability. Is that his enrage timer mechanic? If so, then I wouldn't worry about it too much.