How 'MeToo' is exposing the scale of sexual abuse

[Ellarielle]

What's worse is the people just in it for attention. I read one story where the women essentially said the guy asked her to be his girlfriend and she knew he was married and was "kind of creeped out" by it. I'm sorry, but that's not harassment in the slightest. Creepy? Sure. But it's not harassment on the level of groping and certainly not on the level of rape.

yeah, and that definitely isn't the purpose of the campaign.

Genuinely impressed with any young person that has the courage to do this. Be a lot of immature people that could potentially cause a lot of harm knowing this information. I'd imagine for a young man trying to convey masculinity that admitting you were abused when vulnerable can be a stomach wrenching experience. Fair play. Anyone making it up is human garbage. This is too serious to be padded out of proportion with lies, and will only take away from those genuinely effected.

Completely agree. But then again, we have women saying these men shouldn't be participating in the metoo campaign, but I feel altogether differently. I think anyone who has - whether you are male or female - should feel like they can participate. Definitely takes courage to do so. I don't participate because I think it detracts from the real victims.

[Santoryu]

To be clear, the Me Too movement is about anything from harassment, to sexual abuse, to rape. Anything where your sexual boundaries were breached without consent.

How do we know who's telling the truth and who's lying?

[Kathandira]

How do we know who's telling the truth and who's lying?

That question is why people are just writing "Me Too" most the time without anything further. This isn't about court cases, or trying to call someone out, or even to tell the story. All too often due to the nature of he said she said situations, your question is the first thing asked. Since many people who are victims know that it is hard to prove, they have just stayed silent. This was their moment to speak up, and be unquestioned.

I've seen a hashtag floating around which simply says, #IBelieveYou which is in response to what you are asking.

[A dot Ham]

So I just saw a post on facebook where a guy shares an interesting story of abuse, and how he himself turned into the "abuser". I'm not sure how I feel about it as I know both him and his victim, and while she never talked about it definitely fits. There is part of me that wants to hit him. I am very conflicted, he was a kid when it happened... but she was so young. What do you think?

I come from a family of victims turned abusers. I want to share my story because I think it's important that people understand the cycle.

Let’s start with my mom. She was 1 of 3 kids, the middle child. She was abused by a doctor, one of those small town everyone has the same doctor (and everyone loves him) type of situations. From as early as my mom can remember EVERY doctor’s visit he would penetrate her vaginally and anally with his fingers. She would tell her mom (my grandmother) and she would brush it off, claiming that it was probably necessary.

Her older brother forced himself on the youngest sister when he was 13. She was 10. (Supposedly only once).

My mother was also seduced by my stepdad at the age of 13, he was 18. They brush it off claiming that my mom was an early bloomer and looked at LEAST 16 if not older. Whatever.

When I was 3 or 4 I was experimenting/molested by another girl 3-4 years older. There was rubbing/touching, not much else. This peeked my interest in girls, and sex at a very early age. My mom would later catch me humping cabbage patch dolls in the closet.

During this time my mom would argue with her abusive boyfriend who would stomp on my mom’s feet in anger.

She broke up with him and moved in with another couple. I remember being left alone for hours, while multiple people were off having sex in the same room. Orgies/group sex. I was born in the 80s so lots of sex and drugs. During this time while being left alone with other kids I met another older girl and we played a game. She would lay naked on her bed, pretend she was asleep, and I would come touch her, and then I would run and hide and we would pretend it was a "ghost" then we'd take turns.

I also remember vividly going to the beach and a family next to us was making sand sculptures. They made one of my mom topless as a mermaid. My mom was flattered I guess? We went home with this family, and again 2 men, 2 women (1 my mom) went behind closed doors to have sex. While me and their 2 kids were left alone for hours.

My mom kind of bounced around from place to place until I was about 5. When she married my stepdad. When I started school I always had "crushes" on girls. I was interested in them in my opinion way too early, and those types of affections were not appreciated until much later, so I was kind of a weirdo.

In 2nd grade I made friends with a kid and we several times did this "game" in the bathroom where we bumped butts and genitalia. I don't ever actually recall becoming aroused by this, but I remember the thrill, that is was probably something we could get in trouble for, and it was exciting. I remember going to his house and going with his dad to a gym/public pool, the men were all naked in the showers, and everyone but me seemed very comfortable with it. I never went back to his house.

I also remember in 2nd grade that our much older (ready to retire) teacher used to get the kids in the class to massage her. 3-5 kids at a time. Now at the time it seemed innocent and appropriate. Today I'm not so sure. I vaguely remember getting a little touchy feely with a girl in the book corner during this time.

In 3rd grade I went over to a friend’s house, and made frequent trips to the bathroom while playing video games so I could lay on his sister’s bed with her. She was a year younger. I don't recall getting touchy feely with her. But I wanted to.

Between here and my teens I had a few experiences with my cousin (my mom's sister’s daughter) who was 3 years younger than me. We would skinny dip, "play doctor" seemingly innocent stuff I guess. As we got older we got caught one thanksgiving touching each other’s genitals, very similar to the game I played with the girl one the bed, many years earlier.

I of course found my stepdads playboy collection, and some porn videos, and then the internet, oh boy.

At 12 my last experience with abuse was while reading the REAL story of the Hunchback of Notre Dame, there's fair amount of sex, and at 12 it got me going. My youngest cousin was in the other room getting ready for bed. She was 3. She slept on a bunkbed and I went in to "help" her up with every intention of finding out what girl felt like on the inside. I picked her up in a way that allowed me to slip a finger inside. I hurt her. She cried. I said I was sorry and left the room. As far as abuse goes, that was pretty tame, but it was no less abuse. It haunts me to this day. The next morning my mom got a call from my aunt who was in tears and furious. She found blood spots in my cousin’s underwear and she suspected her boyfriend, but before getting the police involved wanted to know if it had been me. Initially I denied it, but when they started talking about taking her to the hospital, and then the hospital needing to report it, I confessed. At that moment my mother began to beat me. I was pretty big by 12, and I was crying. Her fists weren't really doing anything, so she stripped me bare and made me lay on my bed. She used a rubber piece of siding from our old truck and spanked me until I was bruised and bleeding. She pulled me off the baseball team and immediately enrolled me in counseling. I was surrounded by boys 13-17 who had been court ordered to be there for various sexual crimes, all of which were way worse (at least I told myself) than I had done. Their crimes had been multiple, and ACTUALLY involved sex, mine did not. I graduated the program a year later. The entire program basically was to help us channel urges (because sexual urges are normal) at girls more our own age.

I would say from 13 on my sex life is/was fairly typical even if I was typically ahead of the curve when compared to some of my classmates. I've never had sex with, or heavy petting, with anyone I haven't cared about. I don't think I was ever anything less than a gentleman when it came to girls my own age. But honestly I can't be sure. It was still uncharted area, I was uncomfortable, they were uncomfortable, but it was all consensual.

Before I got engaged to my wife, I told her this story. She had to know what she was getting into, full disclosure, no surprises. We have 2 boys now. I'm in my 30s. I find myself far less forgiving for abuse, than the grace I was shown from what I did to my cousin. My cousin died a few years ago from a heroin overdose. I never asked her if she remembered what I did. I didn't want to cause a rift if she couldn't even remember. I hadn't thought about any of this for years. But when she passed away, I've gone over this timeline/family tree of abuse every day. What do you think am I monster for what I did or should I forgive myself?

[Deleted]

So I just saw a post on facebook where a guy shares an interesting story of abuse, and how he himself turned into the "abuser". I'm not sure how I feel about it as I know both him and his victim, and while she never talked about it definitely fits. There is part of me that wants to hit him. I am very conflicted, he was a kid when it happened... but she was so young. What do you think?

Unfortunately this abused become an abuser isn't uncommon especially if they don't get therapy asap

[NicoWolf]

How do we know who's telling the truth and who's lying?

We're not supposed to question it; "Listen and Believe". Guilty until proven innocent, but only if you're a man. If you're a woman, clearly you're incapable of seual assault, rape, or any violent action against a man or woman. If you're a woman and you have sex with 13 year old, it wasn't rape. He liked it, wanted it, and even though he couldn't consent to it, we all know how boys are.

Nevermind all the statistics, facts, verifiable evidence, and proof to the contrary; we have to believe all instances of #Metoo

Fuck this #Metoo crap. If you're a victim, contact your police and take down the people who did this to you. Posting a hashtag to your twitter is just reducing the enormity of the experience that victims suffer

[Kathandira]

We're not supposed to question it; "Listen and Believe". Guilty until proven innocent, but only if you're a man. If you're a woman, clearly you're incapable of seual assault, rape, or any violent action against a man or woman. If you're a woman and you have sex with 13 year old, it wasn't rape. He liked it, wanted it, and even though he couldn't consent to it, we all know how boys are.

Nevermind all the statistics, facts, verifiable evidence, and proof to the contrary; we have to believe all instances of #Metoo

Fuck this #Metoo crap. If you're a victim, contact your police and take down the people who did this to you. Posting a hashtag to your twitter is just reducing the enormity of the experience that victims suffer

Just in case you weren't aware. Men were posting #MeToo as well. It was for everyone.

[Gamdwelf]

Just in case you weren't aware. Men were posting #MeToo as well. It was for everyone.

No only women the copypasta says.

[Toppy]

No only women the copypasta says.

Its assumed that if a guy posts it its just in support to women.

Which is stupid. Sexual harassment is an all over issue and this is just further pushing the notion that men aren't supposed to mention when it happens to them.

[Celista]

I honestly think it's the majority. I have absolutely zero faith in Social Media and their users. It was low when it started and quickly hit rock bottom.

A bunch of my female friends posted their stories (and a couple men) and I honestly think they are telling the truth and are not looking for attention. Most women have at least one experience.

I didn't make a post because honestly it would have been a very long post for one, and two (most important) that I didn't feel comfortable sharing such intimate details of my life on social media. What I experienced is no one's business but my own.

[SherriMayim]

A bunch of my female friends posted their stories (and a couple men) and I honestly think they are telling the truth and are not looking for attention. Most women have at least one experience.

I didn't make a post because honestly it would have been a very long post for one, and two (most important) that I didn't feel comfortable sharing such intimate details of my life on social media. What I experienced is no one's business but my own.

This pretty much sums up their 'not looking for attention'

https://youtu.be/0ODeKJdhff0?t=49s

[Amerrol]

My Dad and his parents joke about how they used to lock him in his room to keep him out of trouble. LOCK HIM IN HIS ROOM... FOR HOURS! Pisses me off every time... I don't care what generation you're from... that's fucking abuse... and it explains why my dad has some fucked up ideas about raising kids.

OMG for HOURS?!?!?! The sheer horror of it. To be locked in one's own room, filled with ones own possessions for hours. Just think, they could have beat him to within an inch of his life, but instead, they punished him by sending him to his room. The fucking monsters.

You are a fucking pussy.

(Infracted) ~ Minor Flaming

[Post]

I walked up to this guy and demanded to know his name. You know what he told me? "HUGH MUNGUS".

#METOO

You might be the best mod after that one.

[A dot Ham]

OMG for HOURS?!?!?! The sheer horror of it. To be locked in one's own room, filled with ones own possessions for hours. Just think, they could have beat him to within an inch of his life, but instead, they punished him by sending him to his room. The fucking monsters.

You are a fucking pussy.

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs...1&view=Chapter 2 Definition and Scope of Neglect

Page 15 under other forms of inadequate supervision.

It is child neglect by definition of CPS (and that of any otherwise responsible or loving/caring parent).

Welcome to 2017 perhaps you would like to join us.

[Yunzi]

What position of power? The only thing involved is money. Plain and simple. As far as real cohercive power, as in, forcing you to do something against your wishes, a freaking producer, director or whatever bigshot is completly powerless.

All these people were free to refuse and work flipping burgers and maintain their dignity, but they feel they deserve more than that so they'd rather sell their bodies...and now they "come foward", being "courageous", as if people forgot what it was truly all about.

Sure, but what do you expect? Not everyone can be expected to be willing to be homeless just so they can minimize their immorality.

It's true all around the world including in "democratic" countries that attaining money and power requires immorality. It can't be avoided. The "best" that can be done from the point of view of those who sell their soul in the first place is to produce propaganda to convince the world that the rich and powerful are better than everyone else, that immorality simply has nothing to do with their "rise to fame".

This doesn't mean that it's *all about* immorality. It's a corrupt world, meaning one in which both good and bad things co-mingle. For an entertainer, there's a real art and talent involved in getting people to want to watch. For many of them, the *good* aspects of entertaining are worth enduring the bad aspects. This is true for everyone, so for prostitutes the money makes it "worth it".

One way to make the world better is to maintain the good aspects of any profession while eliminating or at least minimizing the bad aspects. If this can be done in the entertainment industry it will help both current and future entertainers.

There's a kind of naive, utopian insanity which says that anyone not entirely moral is a hypocrite who deserves what's coming to them, as long as what's coming to them is some terrible abuse that can be twisted into "righteous punishment". Here's a newsflash for these cretins - in order to survive in the world one MUST be, to some degree, immoral. And the more power one wants, even if the desire for that power comes with the best possible intentions (such as wanting to produce great art to inspire billions of people), the more immorality one will necessarily need to have to achieve those ends. Since these high horse utopians coldly looking down on the world, calling for God's punishment upon the hypocrites are THEMSELVES usually wealthy and immoral (think, let's say, Rush Limbaugh), the hypocrites they really should be examining are in the mirror.

It's true that the "dregs of the earth", the deeply impoverished, have more capacity for fundamental morality than the wealthy. But they pay a very high price for that morality - the complete lack of any ability to do anything besides survive.

The truth of the world is that morality, too, has a price.

[Mistame]

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubPDFs...1&view=Chapter 2 Definition and Scope of Neglect

Page 15 under other forms of inadequate supervision.

It is child neglect by definition of CPS (and that of any otherwise responsible or loving/caring parent).

Welcome to 2017 perhaps you would like to join us.

The "Inadequate Supervision" section is on page 13 and the "Other forms..." section refers to caregivers. There is nothing in that section about sending a child to his/her room and claiming it's "abuse" is, at best, hyperbolic. Not to mention that the event in question was clearly decades ago, probably 50 years or better, and neither laws nor definitions apply retroactively, especially those that change to accommodate the times.

[A dot Ham]

The "Inadequate Supervision" section is on page 13 and the "Other forms..." section refers to caregivers. There is nothing in that section about sending a child to his/her room and claiming it's "abuse" is, at best, hyperbolic. Not to mention that the event in question was clearly decades ago, probably 50 years or better, and neither laws nor definitions apply retroactively, especially those that change to accommodate the times.

So then this whole thread and the #metoo is irrelevant. As people are bring up stories from even 20 years ago where the standards or what constitutes harassment are/were clearly different from what they are today no?

Also if caregiver is held to a certain standard of supervision, then the parent in the absence of "hired" caregiver, is also held to the same standards of adequate supervision, as they are the caregiver. Or are you going to continue to play dumb.

There is also a huge difference in sending someone to their room as a consequence, and locking them in the room for hours without access to food, water, or facilities. It was pretty clear I wasn't talking about a time out... though I suspect you knew that and you're just arguing for the sake of trolling.

Also in regards to your ridiculous claim about child neglect vs child abuse. Educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse

The terms are used interchangeably where the law is concerned.

This should be common sense but since it clearly is not:
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/i...t-1217496.html

I could easily imagine a scenario where limited use of the disciplinary measure, in conjunction with PROPER monitoring, would be okay. I could also envision a situation where locking a child in their room for a lengthly period of time, without proper supervison, would be improper.

[Powerogue]

This seems to make making unbased accusations just a little too easy.

[Mistame]

So then this whole thread and the #metoo is irrelevant. As people are bring up stories from even 20 years ago where the standards or what constitutes harassment are/were clearly different from what they are today no?

Not all of it, obviously. Actual sexual assault is one thing. But things like being led to a creepy guy's hotel room and then leaving because you felt uncomfortable isn't even worthy of discussion and including it is detrimental to actual cases of assault.

Also if caregiver is held to a certain standard of supervision, then the parent in the absence of "hired" caregiver, is also held to the same standards of adequate supervision.

Actually, a parent has a little bit more free reign since it's, you know, their child.

Or are you going to continue to play dumb.

Slow your role, son.

There is also a huge difference in sending someone to their room as a consequence, and locking them in the room for hours without access to food, water, or facilities. It was pretty clear I wasn't talking about a time out... though I suspect you knew that and you're just arguing for the sake of trolling.

So your issue is that the door was locked? After all, I used to get grounded to my room for days, occasionally even weeks. If I wasn't eating, in school or the bathroom, I wasn't allowed to leave my room. It wasn't "abuse", except, perhaps, by the standards of coddling, helicopter parents. Also, you don't seem to understand what "trolling" is, so I'd refrain from using it until you do.

Also in regards to your ridiculous claim about child neglect vs child abuse. Educate yourself.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Child_abuse

The terms are used interchangeably where the law is concerned.

I understand how the words work, but if you feel the need to try to argue semantics, at least be accurate. Yes, neglect falls under "abuse". You know what else falls under abuse? Actual abuse. Context, it's your friend.

This should be common sense but since it clearly is not:
https://www.avvo.com/legal-answers/i...t-1217496.html

Really? The opinion of some random person is hardly an argument.

[A dot Ham]

Not all of it, obviously. Actual sexual assault is one thing. But things like being led to a creepy guy's hotel room and then leaving because you felt uncomfortable isn't even worthy of discussion and including it is detrimental to actual cases of assault.



Actually, a parent has a little bit more free reign since it's, you know, their child.



Slow your role, son.



So your issue is that the door was locked? After all, I used to get grounded to my room for days, occasionally even weeks. If I wasn't eating, in school or the bathroom, I wasn't allowed to leave my room. It wasn't "abuse", except, perhaps, by the standards of coddling, helicopter parent standards. Also, you don't seem to understand what "trolling" is, so I'd refrain from using it until you do.



I understand how the words work, but if you feel the need to try to argue semantics, at least be accurate. Yes, neglect falls under "abuse". You know what else falls under abuse? Actual abuse. Context, it's your friend.


Really? The opinion of some random person is hardly an argument.

You know how you can spot a troll. When they pick apart a quote line by line using multiple quotes as in a vain attempt to dissect the argument and make the post seem riddled with errors or inconsistencies. Or make it easier to refute. It is a physical/structural representation of several logical fallacies. What was it you said? Context? So how about you not take shit out of context and address it in its entirety.

First, #metoo is not simply about sexual assault, its about cases of sexual harassment too. I know its going to be hard for your to understand given your issues with definitions. Neglect and abuse, harassment and assault. But suffice to say you again demonstrate your lack of knowledge or familiarity with the subject and I would suggest that you refrain from weighing in until you have firm grasp on the subject matter.

Second a parent does NOT have "a little bit more free reign" the document cited is establishing minimum standards for the child. Thus it follows the child regardless of who is the caregiver at any specific time. If you are a paid nanny and leave a child in a parked car (even for 5 min) it is neglect, if you are an aunt/uncle and you leave a child in a parked car (even for 5 min) its neglect, if you are a parent... guess what (well it clear you're struggling here so I'll spell it out) and you leave a child in a parked car (even for 5 min) its neglect.

"Grounding" a child/teen can have its uses. Given the context I would probably assume you were a much older child who has a firm grasp on consequences. Anyone even marginally familiar with child development (either by studying it or experiencing it) would know that level of grounding would have limited effect on a young child, as they would forget why they are there to begin with. But given the fact that I clarified for you exactly what was happening. Your anecdote regarding grounding is irrelevant because I specifically defined what was happening. No access to food, water, or facilities. You quoted it... do you have difficulty reading too?

Its not semantics. One = the other. Child maltreament is the umbrella term for child abuse and child neglect... which are used interchangeably. That means they mean the same thing.

Last, that is not some random opinion of some nobody. That is website dedicated to asking questions of law. You don't get to answer said questions without being verified as a lawyer. Thus that would make that a significantly more qualified opinion than that of yourself. That should have been sufficient even if you were justifiably skeptical and NOT just trolling...
https://www.aol.com/article/2016/07/...time/21437651/
An article regarding the conviction of parents who locked their child in his room for significant periods of time.