Sub Rogue Strongest opener possible in PVP

[Blezius]

Has anyone played around with openers ? whats the strongest opener possible ? even if it's not convenient for the rest of the fight.

for example even if you had to take something like Deeper Stratagem, it's not the best talent for pvp but i just want to know what are the talent choices and rotation that are used to get the most damage possible in the opener ( before the stuns run out ).

[vojtas]

bump up but looking for viable assa openers

[Rucati]

Damage wise it would just be the same as a PvE opener.

Cold Blood -> Shadowblades -> Shadowstrike -> Backstab -> Nightblade -> Dance -> Shadowstrike x2 -> Evis -> Marked for Death -> Evis (you could use the MfD Evis at any point really, I just put it at the end of Dance cause why not)

You'd never use that in PvP because it's awful, but it would be the most damage. An opener that does the most damage that you might actually use would be something like:

Cold Blood -> Marked for Death -> Kidney -> Shadowblades -> Shadowstrike -> Nightblade -> Dance -> Shadowstrike x2 -> Evis -> Cheap Shot -> Dance -> Shadowstrike -> Cheap Shot -> Shadowstrike -> Evis

This will probably waste one combo point but ensures your target is stunned the whole time with no gaps. If you Dance -> Shadowstrike -> Evis -> Cheap Shot you won't waste CPs but there will probably be a 1 second window for your opponent to get skills off.

If you're against an Orc and/or someone running Relentless it would have to change in order to keep them stunlocked the whole time, but that's a basic idea of an opener. Again, I don't think I'd ever actually use this in any real situation simply because blowing everything in the beginning is a good way to be useless for the next minute. Also you could Vanish at any point in there to extend your stealth with Subterfuge for more damage, where you put that in is kind of irrelevant.

bump up but looking for viable assa openers

Guess I'll do Assassination too. It's a bit more RNG because of Mutilate giving so many CPs randomly, but here we go.

For pure damage you'd do something like:

Garrote -> Mutilate -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Toxic Blade -> Envenom (This won't be max CP but it applies the Creeping Venom debuff) -> Mutilate -> Mutilate -> Envenom.

From there just spam Mutilates and Envenoms while keeping bleeds up like normal. Again I don't know why you'd do this, but it would be the most pure damage.

For actual usefulness it would depend what you were fighting. Generally do the following:

Cheap Shot -> Garrote -> Rupture -> Vendetta -> Kingsbane -> Toxic Blade -> Kidney Shot -> Mutilate -> Mutilate -> Envenom -> Mutilate -> Mutilate -> Rupture

If it's a caster start with Garrote and then Cheap Shot after, so they're silenced into stun instead of overlapping the two. Against melee/Hunters it doesn't matters if you overlap them (except for certain cases but this is general).

[Deleted]

Cold Blood -> Marked for Death -> Kidney -> Shadowblades -> Shadowstrike -> Nightblade -> Dance -> Shadowstrike x2 -> Evis -> Cheap Shot -> Dance -> Shadowstrike -> Cheap Shot -> Shadowstrike -> Evis.

Although there is no definitive "right" answer due to the huge amount of variables with races comps etc, however i do feel there is a better alternative generic opener than your above method, not that yours is wrong, it's just more geared around 100-0 someone with no healer by the look of it and i know the title post is the "strongest possible opener" but that's subjective IMO because you can open harder but not land a kill from using up too many resources too quickly to deal with your opponents reactions and cooldowns etc.

When opening hard i follow this rotation: Cold Blood>Blades>Cheap>Nightblade>Symbols/SS>Dance/Cheap>Evis>SS>SS>Evis. Now this will net you a lot of damage and still lock down your target for 6s by chaining cheapshots (if they have no out), but what it does is now allows you to be more flexible with what you do next. Sub its not about just all inning some one like ww monk, the majority of the time you need that extra control to land the kill and quite often it is your partner that finishes while you cc.

So back to the above, after you open with this method you now have a dance in the bank, blades still running and MfD still available, assuming you got a sap off or cc on the healer you can now MfD kidney the healer and continue to dance on your kill target which will almost certainly force a strong cd/trinket or blind and use the MfD for a evis after dance for extra damage. Sub is such a fluid spec in terms of how you approach each kill attempt, but generally 9/10 on every go that is how i open.

One thing of note is that i always when opening from stealth cheap the other dps for control, but you can still perform the above opener due to the energy return from symbols. Also sometimes it is good not to use cold blood right away since you can use it on a low health target with defensive's up, like dispersion etc as it ignores those mechanics due to it being on a flat % modifier. I cant tell you how many times i have got ppl to 5% when they pop a super strong defensive and i'm JK cold blood killing blow with a stun!

To the original poster hope that helps, but most importantly sub is about reacting to what is happening around you, your methods must be dynamic and very rarely scripted which is what makes the spec challenging sometimes but hugely rewarding when done right, just keep at it and it will come.

[Deleted]

What pvp you are aiming at? World pvp or instanced, because we are talking here for 2 different talent setups and openeres. For world pvp, the classic pve spec can work and you can also do the classic max dmg opener (shadowstrike-shadowdance-shadowstrike-death from above-shadowstrike= dead target)(As ppl will die in 3-4 globals whatever you press).

In instanced pvp you need a marked for death spec+ subterfuge+gloomblade, where you want to abuse chain stuns and dishing dmg in those stuns with shadodance (As ppl dont get globaled in bgs that often)