If they announce legacy servers at Blizzcon, would you play them?

[Halyon]

I ****ing hate questing, especially questing for levelling, it is awful and I should not be forced into it. (That said I have 13 level 110s)
Would I do as much PvE as I did back then? (stuck on 4H, fell apart after 2.0 prepatch) No. I enjoyed theory-crafting and going in-depth back when it was niche..

Then you probably shouldn't be playing MMO's aside from a few specific choices, say GW2... Max level hasn't moved the last 2 expansions, but there are other 'levels' to grind out regardless... It's kindof an ingrained staple of mmo's, no matter which one...

You realize that it's still the same game, right? It's still World of Warcraft. They're still subscribed and paying for the same game.

It'd deviate at some point. 1) It can't be updated at all aside from bug-fixes. That's it. People will get bored, or there's be such an in-bred monopoly on top raid/pvp positions that it'd borderline go P2Win...as it happened in vanilla on occasions.... 2) Vanilla-specialized updates, have the retail players complain their asses off that you get special treatment and your own special treatment dev teams, rightly so do they complain. Effectively creating a different, if related, game in the end... 3) New shared events between both server groups, heavily increasing the load on tuning and layout, probably demaning new dev teams for vanilla servers as well, just fractally padding the already weighing problem of content draught, with special care having to be taken to the vastly different power levels of vanilla vs current compounding it even more.

How is it difficult to see why this is not a sustainable thing?

[Slashnox]

Fuck yes that would suck me in for years again

[Craaazyyy]

definitely

[JustRob]

Then you probably shouldn't be playing MMO's aside from a few specific choices, say GW2... Max level hasn't moved the last 2 expansions, but there are other 'levels' to grind out regardless... It's kindof an ingrained staple of mmo's, no matter which one...




It'd deviate at some point. 1) It can't be updated at all aside from bug-fixes. That's it. People will get bored, or there's be such an in-bred monopoly on top raid/pvp positions that it'd borderline go P2Win...as it happened in vanilla on occasions.... 2) Vanilla-specialized updates, have the retail players complain their asses off that you get special treatment and your own special treatment dev teams, rightly so do they complain. Effectively creating a different, if related, game in the end... 3) New shared events between both server groups, heavily increasing the load on tuning and layout, probably demaning new dev teams for vanilla servers as well, just fractally padding the already weighing problem of content draught, with special care having to be taken to the vastly different power levels of vanilla vs current compounding it even more.

How is it difficult to see why this is not a sustainable thing?

People who want vanilla realms don't want updates. Just roll out the server as it did originally at release, then gradually release content patches such as Molten Core, Ahn'Qiraj, Naxx, etc. That's all people want. No specialized updates are necessary. Even balancing that wasn't originally in the game isn't necessary. People who want to play legacy servers know what they're getting, and they know PvP was unbalanced during vanilla. That's how it should be.

[Deleted]

I would not.

Unless they had another team working on it and expanding the original design.

I do agree that live WoW is a simple game. Too simple and not involving. Atm this game is Argus and a raid. It's been that recipe for ages. You can get everything you need there and within a couple of days and then spam the raid (now you can do mythic plus aswell, but it is not a source of anything. It's another RNG fest). It is lazy design.

[Halyon]

People who want vanilla realms don't want updates. Just roll out the server as it did originally at release, then gradually release content patches such as Molten Core, Ahn'Qiraj, Naxx, etc. That's all people want. No specialized updates are necessary. Even balancing that wasn't originally in the game isn't necessary. People who want to play legacy servers know what they're getting, and they know PvP was unbalanced during vanilla. That's how it should be.

Not according to this thread, mate... Some say no bug fixes at all, others say QoL improvements...can't have both at the same time.

[JustRob]

Not according to this thread, mate... Some say no bug fixes at all, others say QoL improvements...can't have both at the same time.

People who want QoL changes to vanilla are the group who would "try it out", but probably go back to Legion in a week or so. The people who really want vanilla servers don't want any changes. We want the 100% genuine experience, inpleasantries and all.

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I would not.

Unless they had another team working on it and expanding the original design.

I do agree that live WoW is a simple game. Too simple and not involving. Atm this game is Argus and a raid. It's been that recipe for ages. You can get everything you need there and within a couple of days and then spam the raid (now you can do mythic plus aswell, but it is not a source of anything. It's another RNG fest). It is lazy design.

They already have a team who are expanding the original design, it's called retail WoW as it is now.

[Halyon]

People who want QoL changes to vanilla are the group who would "try it out", but probably go back to Legion in a week or so. The people who really want vanilla servers don't want any changes. We want the 100% genuine experience, inpleasantries and all.

The only way I can see that happening is Blizz doing it ironically, to make it crystal clear how grateful people should be that WoW did not stay that way.

[Ehzurhadn]

People who want QoL changes to vanilla are the group who would "try it out", but probably go back to Legion in a week or so. The people who really want vanilla servers don't want any changes. We want the 100% genuine experience, inpleasantries and all.

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They already have a team who are expanding the original design, it's called retail WoW as it is now.

Agreed. Except I would substitute "unpleasantries" with "Inconveniences".

[JustRob]

The only way I can see that happening is Blizz doing it ironically, to make it crystal clear how grateful people should be that WoW did not stay that way.

Well, joke's on them. That's exactly what we want.

[Halyon]

Well, joke's on them. That's exactly what we want.

It's what a minority of a minority wants.

[JustRob]

It's what a minority of a minority wants.

So what if we're a minority. If they can please existing subscribers and bring a lot of subcribers back at the same time, for minimal effort, why not do it?

[Halyon]

So what if we're a minority. If they can please existing subscribers and bring a lot of subcribers back at the same time, for minimal effort, why not do it?

How is it sustainable? How many people will play more than a month until they ditch it and go back to what they were doing before. Why waste the server space. Just go on a private server.

[JustRob]

How is it sustainable? Just go on a private server.

How? I dunno, just flag the servers to online, put a couple GM's on each one of them and let it roll? They don't need to put in much effort to get these things going.

[BicycleMafioso]

Then you probably shouldn't be playing MMO's aside from a few specific choices, say GW2... Max level hasn't moved the last 2 expansions, but there are other 'levels' to grind out regardless... It's kindof an ingrained staple of mmo's, no matter which one...

I am not playing MMOs. I am playing a Warcraft game. It happens to once have been an MMORPG, but it didn't enforce questing. Today it's mandatory. It wasn't back when, when questing was a very inefficient (and boring) way to level.

[Deleted]

They don't need to put in much effort to get these things going.

That's where you're so wrong...

[Halyon]

I am not playing MMOs. I am playing a Warcraft game. It happens to once have been an MMORPG, but it didn't enforce questing. Today it's mandatory. It wasn't back when, when questing was a very inefficient (and boring) way to level.

Vanilla had leveling drought from what...level 62 or 64? After that it was farm farm farm and more farming of either Stratholme or solo mob farming somewhere. It's a lot more streamlined nowadays, and at least there is a storyline to follow, be it good or bad. More than what vanilla offered.

But fair enough on the rest, just stick to Warcraft then. SP game.

[Projectmars]

How? I dunno, just flag the servers to online, put a couple GM's on each one of them and let it roll? They don't need to put in much effort to get these things going.

It... no. It’s not that simple. If it was that simple then private servers wouldn’t have any bugs or other issues, now would they?

Edit:

Vanilla had leveling drought from what...level 62 or 64? After that it was farm farm farm and more farming of either Stratholme or solo mob farming somewhere. It's a lot more streamlined nowadays, and at least there is a storyline to follow, be it good or bad. More than what vanilla offered.

But fair enough on the rest, just stick to Warcraft then. SP game.

62 - 64 were TBC levels... but I recall 35 - 45 (whatever Dustwallow Marsh’s level range was) as being annoying to go through.

[voidillusion]

How is it sustainable? How many people will play more than a month until they ditch it and go back to what they were doing before. Why waste the server space. Just go on a private server.

How it is sustainable? Are you aware of the story of a private server some years ago that had it's owner sued by blizzard because he was profiting from microtransactions? Some ppl that play vanilla, dare i say most ppl that play vanilla are quite devoted and go a long way supporting the game, hell i even see ppl donating hundreds of dollars in some servers to support server costs.

Point being, it's more than sustainable, don't let that idea fool you.

So, if it's sustainable, and shouldnt be very hard for a company like blizzard to release a older version of their game if a couple of voluntaries do it on private servers why don't do they?

Put your tinfoil hat now, they have discovered a formula in the retail game that's profitable and is kinda low maintenance, just think about it, for years now, they just think of a theme, throw some lvls for ppl to chew, 4-6 dungeons, some world quests/daily quests and let the same raids roll on several dificulties. The game is on auto pilot

And what does this have to do with vanilla servers? My theory is that those servers would just canibalize the hell out of the retail version, and from a business stand point this would be ruinous for them. Ppl realizing that the older formula is actually more appealing, as i believe it is, that the current could indeed be ruinous. And even if it turned out to no be so, the sheer risk makes it probably not worth it.

So lets please agree on some things, some ppl prefer the older formula and some prefer the new, that is fine, to each it's own. But no, it's not because of lack of sustainability that it isnt done, not even close.

[Teri]

Vanilla had leveling drought from what...level 62 or 64? After that it was farm farm farm and more farming of either Stratholme or solo mob farming somewhere. It's a lot more streamlined nowadays, and at least there is a storyline to follow, be it good or bad. More than what vanilla offered.

But fair enough on the rest, just stick to Warcraft then. SP game.

62-64 was Outland/TBC.

Vanilla had a rougher time above 50, but that was mainly cause the way very long questchains, and elite areas existed. So solo-play eventually hit an elite/dungeon/group component.

Elite areas existed even for lower levels, even like loch modan/redridge/wetlands for alliance. Elite drakes in Badlands etc. but generally the big quest exp came at high levels. A lower level elite quest might still have moved your bar a lot, but raw xp number wise it was less.

Most quest chains at some point involved a lot of travel or an elite zone/area out in the world, or having to get X item from a dungeon boss to continue. (mallet of zul'farrak/Ancient egg for example were non-max level involved Zul'Farrak/Sunken Temple and Elite areas of Jintha'alor.)

You had to basicly do a "treasure hunt" to effectively find multiple quests for a dungeon, as certainly many dungeon quest weren't offered as a 1-step thing right at the entrance.

Stratholme generally wasn't touched till 60, especially in it's earliest tuning.

I was in a guild on an RP server, did a ton of stuff together, so hardly having to grind to get to X level.

At 60, there was a ton of grinding, as there was no such thing as daily quests. If you wanted to do dungeons, obviously you'd be in cities or special group channels, but there were moments you just wanted gold/rep when it was farmable solo.

Just pvp/dungeons/raids/professions and of course gold.