people who don't vote.

[Novakhoro]

True, one vote will not make a difference, but if there are quite a few people who feel that way and don't vote, well you just voted for the guy you didn't like.

If you live in a democracy, then you have a duty to find out who is running in your area and then to vote for the person you like the best - or in some cases - the guy you hate the least.

Aaaand welcome to the problem of Collective Action

[Korlok]

Just gonna quote George Carlin here:

“I don't vote. Two reasons. First of all it's meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The shit they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn't mean a fucking thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain', but where's the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with.”

[Taso]

The Electoral College is forced inequality. It's nothing more than affirmative action. There is no reason that a person in Wyoming should have three times the voting power as a person in Texas.

- - - Updated - - -



There are two very workable solutions. Vote third party, or don't vote at all.

You realize the electoral vote is us voting for representatives to vote for the guy/gal who would do the best job right? If you are angry then vote for governors and state assembly who would dismiss laws forcing the electorate to vote for the majority party. Then they can vote who best represents the job.

[Machismo]

You realize the electoral vote is us voting for representatives to vote for the guy/gal who would do the best job right? If you are angry then vote for governors and state assembly who would dismiss laws forcing the electorate to vote for the majority party. Then they can vote who best represents the job.

I also realize that it creates forced inequality when voting for the President. The entire EC is the problem, not just governors and representatives. It promotes a two-party system, making less competition for trying to get elected. In the end, it means lower-quality candidates will exist. By law, a voter in Wyoming has more than three times the voting power as a voter in Texas. That is quite literally forced inequality.

[Dextroden]

Well I’ll agree with you in part but if you acknowledge the importance of protesting ALL protesting then there’s no excuse not to vote, unless you can’t and by can’t I mean you in the literal sense.

And then they vote for someone you don't like and you'll

1. Call them stupid for not voting like you

2. Say they shouldn't be allowed to vote.

2016 is hard proof pragmatism and working together is snake oil sold by conmen.

[AeneasBK]

Should people without children have the right to complain about society?

[Rafoel]

If you think all candidates equally bad and you'd be equally unhappy with any of them, then not voting is justifiable.

If you're unhappy with who won the election and would've preferred another, and you didn't vote? Yeah, you can heck off with that whining; you helped it happen. Even if it's the less-bad option, you should still vote for it, absent a better alternative.

Is it though actually possible to be EQUALLY unhappy with both (or more) results?

Even in the oh so famous example of choosing between cholera and plague, if you ever were in situation of having to choose one... you would approach it like most important decision of your life. Which disease gives you higher chance of surviving, which is more unpleasant, etc. etc. You would never surrender your option of choosing.


However, in my opinion, saying that "all candidates are bad" is rather excuse than statement of fact. People don't vote now will most likely never vote - period. There is plenty of such people in my country. 30 years of free elections - they voted once, at the beginning, and then being unhappy with how their candidates behaved they never voted again. Parties come and go, candidates who ask for votes today were still children when first election happened.... yet for those people its always "everybody are bad, nobody represents me". Last elections - 10 parties participate, meanwhile 50% people are like "I have nobody to vote for". Sure...

[Xarkan]

If you think all candidates equally bad and you'd be equally unhappy with any of them, then not voting is justifiable.

If you're unhappy with who won the election and would've preferred another, and you didn't vote? Yeah, you can heck off with that whining; you helped it happen. Even if it's the less-bad option, you should still vote for it, absent a better alternative.

You can get the ballot, go into the box, not choose anything, throw the ballot in the box

That is, imo, the proper way to tell if no candidate is worth your vote.

[Paperfox]

Aaaand welcome to the problem of Collective Action

Actually it is welcome to the problem of Collective Inaction.

People are far more concerned with things that are truly trivial - pretty much any form of entertainment - and do not have any idea of who is on their local schoolboard (if they have kids), who is supposed to be representing them on any level (city, state/provincial, and federal/national).

Think of what it could be like if people held their politicians accountable, and actually cared what those in power did.

[Kithelle]

If you don't vote, it means you leave others to decide. It means you accept what others vote

Edit: You can't really complain about the outcome of the elections, but you can still oppose anything you think the government that turned out to be, does wrong.

Oh? And what if I did go out and vote for Gary Johnson, like my brother did? Would he have magically won? He didn't even come in third place in every state...

[Lochton]

Of course they do, they pay taxes and are citizens.

Then you should be taking notice as to what your taxes and such go for, and vote.

[Tiwack]

Just gonna quote George Carlin here:

“I don't vote. Two reasons. First of all it's meaningless; this country was bought and sold a long time ago. The shit they shovel around every 4 years *pfff* doesn't mean a fucking thing. Secondly, I believe if you vote, you have no right to complain. People like to twist that around – they say, 'If you don't vote, you have no right to complain', but where's the logic in that? If you vote and you elect dishonest, incompetent people into office who screw everything up, you are responsible for what they have done. You caused the problem; you voted them in; you have no right to complain. I, on the other hand, who did not vote, who in fact did not even leave the house on election day, am in no way responsible for what these people have done and have every right to complain about the mess you created that I had nothing to do with.”

By staying home you didn't help stop the incompetent people from getting elected. So no better than them in the end. People have lived and died for your right to vote. It's your duty to get involved and create an opinion however flawed it may be. You have a stance until you take a new one so exercise your right to vote and you can flipflop all you want. Critical thinking isn't picked up over night so the worst you can do is not voting at all and ignoring the world around until it comes knocking on your door. One day sooner or later it will if you just stay at home.

[beanman12345]

Yup, you don't vote you can't bitch about the results.

[Leetbeartank]

"If voting made a difference, they wouldn't let us do it."
Mark Twain

[Korlok]

By staying home you didn't help stop the incompetent people from getting elected. So no better than them in the end. People have lived and died for your right to vote. It's your duty to get involved and create an opinion however flawed it may be. You have a stance until you take a new one so exercise your right to vote and you can flipflop all you want. Critical thinking isn't picked up over night so the worst you can do is not voting at all and ignoring the world around until it comes knocking on your door. One day sooner or later it will if you just stay at home.

You didn't exactly refute my statement. You simply put your own opinion out there.

I'm not here to debate whether or not either of us has a right to complain. I generally don't complain about the political climate or who is in office, because it's all the same when it comes down to it. Those in power, have all the power. Those who control the narrative, control the fucking narrative.

We are all pawns, and I refuse to participate in a broken system. It's a moral question for me. I'm an all or nothing style of individual.
If the system doesn't work, then I won't be a part of it. Nothing you say will change my mind, nothing you do will change the system.

[Santti]

I know pretty much nothing about politics, which is why I don't vote. I feel I might unintentionally do harm with my ignorance, even if it's just 1 vote one way or another.

Why not find out more about it and be informed?

I have my hands full with trying to piece my life together because of clinical depression. I can't be worrying about how to run the whole country until I have some form of identity assembled. Doesn't help that I'm also a bit lazy, so politics is out for now.

Only politics I care about is seeing Trump being kicked out. Although, I guess it's not really about politics, as I never cared about his political views. I want him out solely because he is a disgusting human being.

[Better]

Yup, you don't vote you can't bitch about the results.

That's something easy to say in theory. However there are states that you can't change, no matter how hard you try. These are the states that they don't even bother to campaign in, partly due to low number of electoral votes, and partly due to them voting party line every time.

[Machismo]

Just stop and think really hard if you want a direct democracy.

There is a reason the constitution and the government is a Representative Republic, because the vast majority will almost always choose to put down the minority. A republic allows those who are numbered a chance at implementing change or at least fight back against it. California already has a huge advantage in congress, they have more representatives then any other state.

Equal opportunity is impossible, because people are inherently not given the same opportunities.

You can have a constitutional republic, and still have equal voting power for the preaidency.

[Dextroden]

Oh? And what if I did go out and vote for Gary Johnson, like my brother did? Would he have magically won? He didn't even come in third place in every state...

Possibly the same boat as me. Thinking a third party candidate could get atleast 5% during an election year where people felt good about holding their nose to vote.

[Merie]

You should always vote regardless. Why? Because politicians look up a thing called "metrics" by age group. If your age group doesn't turn out to vote, they won't give a rats ass about the priorities important to you. Millennials don't vote in the numbers baby boomers do. As a result regardless of which "side" wins, both are assured to care more about protecting things like Social Security for baby boomers than they are about affordable college education. If pissing off the one voter block is political suicide and pissing off the other voter block with barely budge your electability, why not?