Awaiting Trump's coal comeback, miners reject retraining

[Hammerfest]

The coal industry has been in a slow decline for decades



Whether by automation or other cleaner energy coal jobs are never coming back to wait for them is idiotic.

Your graph depicts US Coal Mining Employment... which reflects most forms of employment in the US thanks to automation and is therefore a nothingburger. The Obama era restrictions on coal are what was artificial and their being lifted is what the coal miners are waiting for.

[cubby]

Your graph depicts US Coal Mining Employment... which reflects most forms of employment in the US thanks to automation and is therefore a nothingburger. The Obama era restrictions on coal are what was artificial and their being lifted is what the coal miners are waiting for.

Can you provide any evidence to say they are on the rise? And are you really arguing that coal miners are just sitting and waiting for Trump to fulfill one of his promises? Talk about a nothingburger.

The coal miners, your neighbors (unless you were lying about that, too), are just waiting for more black lung.

[lazypeon100]

Guys. You're arguing with a flat earther. Nothing you say will ever convince him he's wrong, he will just argue in circles and claim victory. Just put him on ignore.

[Enthusiastic Steward]

Your graph depicts US Coal Mining Employment... which reflects most forms of employment in the US thanks to automation and is therefore a nothingburger. The Obama era restrictions on coal are what was artificial and their being lifted is what the coal miners are waiting for.

Except that ship has sailed. The push to natural gas is well underway. As you have been told time and again, its cheaper, and that above all is going to drive production, especially as new natural gas developments continue to expand. The US is poised to move into becoming a natural gas exporter. We are a capitalist economy and the bottom line is in the driver's seat. Coal isn't coming back. Its not going away completely, but you're not going to see a massive resurgence to the benefit of the depressed communities Trump played.

Also the US isn't the 'Saudi Arabia of coal', we're about equal with China and slightly behind Australia and Europe/Russia.

[Mafic]

Most of our power still comes from coal precisely because it is cheap and local. Coal's recent decline was artificially induced by the Left. Clean coal technologies also continue to improve. I live near a coal power plant and we don't have any pollution problems.

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Companies are prevented and dis-incentivized from buying coal by the Left and the their policies. Deregulating the coal industry, even back to the level of the 1990s, would increase coal usage and lower overall energy costs in the US.

Natural gas > coal.

The fracking boom has killed the coal industry in the US. The only mega buyer of US coal is China and China is undergoing a green energy boom.

The US government can't do anything to reverse these market forces on a local, national or global scale. Unless the US government is going to engage in heavy handed trade wars coal is done.

There are some coal plants in the US still that even power desalinization plants due to sheer energy demands. But these coal plants are very, very old and will be phased out of commission.

[Cthulhu 2020]

I wonder why Hammerfest hates the free market.

[SirBeef]

I'm going to clue you in, 38.8% would not be "most". That would be the leading source, not the majority and not "most". What you are showing here is that most of the power comes from non-coal sources.

He and Don Trump Jr. must have had math class together. I'm sure Hammer would be trying to save the horse and buggy industry at teh turn of the century after cars came around.

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Actually, they are.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...ds-every-year/

You're welcome.

You should know better. He is a science denier.

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Actually, they're not. There's no air pollution here... and we've got a clean coal plant within 20 miles.

not if there is anything burning carbon you know like combustion engine cars. What do you think is coming out the back of them? Here's a hint, it's pollution.

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I wonder why Hammerfest hates the free market.

Free market is just a buzzword to conservatives. They are 100% against competition, and pass a lot of bills that prevent small business form competing, and protect conglomerates allowing them to get bigger and border on monopolism.

[Draco-Onis]

Your graph depicts US Coal Mining Employment... which reflects most forms of employment in the US thanks to automation and is therefore a nothingburger. The Obama era restrictions on coal are what was artificial and their being lifted is what the coal miners are waiting for.

That is false.



And the entire world is heading in this direction.

[Breccia]

But these coal plants are very, very old and will be phased out of commission.

Just ask Texas.

Or Arizona. That's from Feb, so, post-election Trump couldn't save it.

Or, ask the Midwest, where 18% of coal plants are due to be closed/converted and another 21% are "uneconomic". That's from a study this month so don't blame regulations.

Also, about "very very old":



The majority of MW-h are produced by plants older than 1974. Good year.

And, the majority of plants by total number of buildings are older than that.

Everything Mafic said is correct. Which I'd expect from someone with a geology name.

[Thekri]

Your graph depicts US Coal Mining Employment... which reflects most forms of employment in the US thanks to automation and is therefore a nothingburger. The Obama era restrictions on coal are what was artificial and their being lifted is what the coal miners are waiting for.

Most forms of employment in the US have dropped 90% since 1920? This is definitely news to me. It is true for blacksmiths, horse drawn carriage drivers, telegraph operators and professional buffalo hunters, but I don't think those are the industries you really are trying to compare to coal... although I am, because it is a pretty fair comparison.

[Wyrt]

Ay lmao. Coal miners are making it increasingly difficult to empathize with them.

They've been long past empathizing with for a long time. They're a bunch of assholes who whine and refuses to do anything about their situation, even when directly offered help in getting new jobs.

[pathora44]

Wait a minute I thought conservatives bitch and complain about people not "bettering" themselves to get out of the shit and get a better life. So when the government comes in and offer them absolutely free training to get out of a dying, no matter how stupidly Trump says it isn't, industry they flat out refuse to take it. So shouldn't conservatives like Hammerfest call them out for their stupidity? No Hammerfest doubles down on them and that a dying outdated industry needs to have even more money artificially pumped into it instead of innovating and moving on to better forms of energy. So Hammerfest should we go back to steam powered train engines as well. I shouldn't be surprised when somebody believes the world is flat that they would push for outdated dying industries to stay alive. I bet he believes the sun revolves around the Earth and that magic powers keep people on the Earth.

[DarkTZeratul]

So Hammerfest should we go back to steam powered train engines as well.

Trump did say he wanted goddamn steam, so...

[Machismo]

This is the fundamental problem in most local economies that lack diversity. The labor force refuses to adapt to changing times. It's hard to feel sympathy for people when you throw them a lifeline, and they fold their arms and refuse to take it.

[Breccia]

Wait a minute I thought conservatives bitch and complain about people not "bettering" themselves to get out of the shit and get a better life.

Well yes, but they also complain about bailouts, and yet, here we are.

Perry’s proposed rule would pay coal and nuclear plants to remain on the electrical grid in the name of resilience, financially rewarding them for keeping three-month supplies of fuel on premises.

Some economists have worried that the proposed rule could spike rates for electricity customers. The energy-consulting firm ICF has estimated it will cost power customers $800 million to $3.8 billion every year through 2030. Asked about those concerns Wednesday, Perry replied: “I think you take costs into account, but what’s the cost of freedom? What’s the cost to keep America free? I’m not sure I want to leave that up to the free market.”

[Sunseeker]

I live in a coal state. Miners and the people who support coal mines are fucking idiots.

[RazingCain]

The sad part is that it's not just a habit; the entire right wing, spearheaded by Trump, is telling them that these jobs were only in danger because of that scumlord Obama and that they're going to save coal. Because they'd rather get the political capital than tell the unfortunate truth, that coal is dead and politics aren't the cause of it.

I hope it costs the party dearly then in the midterms & 2020 when they don't have jobs. They will have every reason to blame them for lying to them. But so far it seems they like a pretty lie over an inconvenient truth.

[Powerogue]

"Trump has promised to revive coal by rolling back environmental regulations and moved to repeal Obama-era curbs on carbon emissions from power plants."

As long as the world doesn't feel the consequences of his stupidity within the next 4-8 years he could not care less.

Remember everyone, Trump News, your one and only source for truth, says climate change was concocted by the Chinese!



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The biggest problem with people like you is that you take a bit of knowledge, wrap it up in a few easy-to-repeat lies, and then, again, literally end up killing people because you can't be bothered to learn something new.

I really don't know why people act surprised. It's Hammerfest for crying out loud. The guy who could literally be shot into space and convince himself that the windows on his rocket are secretly photoshopped images on TV screens made to LOOK like windows out to the Earth below.

[Cthulhu 2020]

Just ask Texas.

Or Arizona. That's from Feb, so, post-election Trump couldn't save it.

Or, ask the Midwest, where 18% of coal plants are due to be closed/converted and another 21% are "uneconomic". That's from a study this month so don't blame regulations.

Also, about "very very old":



The majority of MW-h are produced by plants older than 1974. Good year.

And, the majority of plants by total number of buildings are older than that.

Everything Mafic said is correct. Which I'd expect from someone with a geology name.

Let's also not forget the various claims made in this thread...

"Coal being uneconomic is the fault of liberals!"

The EPA restrictions/regulations that (among many other things) made coal less economic were passed BY BUSH JR.

"Coal being uneconomic is the fault of Obama!"

The only thing Obama touched when it came to coal was ending coal subsidies, i.e. he stopped giving coal companies free taxpayer money welfare to keep coal "economic". HEAVY emphasis on the quotes there, since ultimately we were still paying more for coal through taxes.

[Jeezy911]

Except the demand for coal has plummeted because other forms of energy are cleaner, safer to extract, and most importantly cheaper. Having a glut of product is worthless if it's an outdated product most people no longer want.

Coal makes up 70% of the electricity in the U.S. Not sure demand is the problem.

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So...how exactly should the government force companies that don't want to buy coal, to buy coal? Or should we be subsidizing the coal industries inability to compete in the market with our tax dollars, because coal miners are too lazy and entitled to get retrained for other work?

That is not the problem, demand is still there. Regulations have killed the coal companies to the point where it is not profitable.

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Coal has been declining since the 80's, but sure it just has to be "the left" that caused it.

Actually the left has a lot to do with this policy wise. You think big government contracts are going to "Kentucky Coal" or "Solendra Solar" if given a choice under democratic leadership?