Spoilers, preview of Before the Storm

[Wildmoon]

She still seems far more reasonable than most of cast. I don't see anything wrong with her leading.

There are many things wrong with a leader who only care about her own part of the faction.

[Arrashi]

You don't see anything wrong with maintaining and using the plague?

Ok, whats the deal with whining about plague again ? You don't complain about shadow priests. Or warlocks. Or torpedos. You know what happens to human directly hit by torpedo ? Not a pleasant sight, and yet nooone complains. Plague is a weapon like any other.

You don't see anything wrong with her trying to enslave an entire race of creatures for her own ends?

Its a race created to be slaves, and by most part, doesn't give two shits about being slaves. So why not ?

You see nothing wrong with her plotting to kill all humans (and yeah, she wants to do that) and raise them as forsaken without their consent?

That's a fanon, and there nothing to prove it. Other than ramblings on this forum. And she definately asks about consent - see starting zone.

You're just as messed up as she is, if that's the case. She's just as bad as the Lich King was, she's just been more sneaky about it.

Nah, she isn't. She just uses her strong cards, like everyone else does.

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There are many things wrong with a leader who only care about her own part of the faction.

Nah, most other leaders don't give a crap either. Its all about politics. Just like real life.

[Schattenlied]

Oh for fuck's sake, I thought we would be free of that retarded faction war that Blizzard can never write well. "lulz let's go attack stormwind guise'' really? I don't even like the place but you just know this is, again, going to spiral into more poorly justified stupidity just for the sake of adding war to Warcraft, and that will never lead anywhere due to gameplay concerns.

Are going to have to replace our Warchief again? Here's hoping this is a red herring and the attack doesn't happen or a plot twist comes our way.

Sylvanas has always wanted to kill as many humans as possible to turn into forsaken, because they have no other way to expand or replenish their population, this isn't something new and it's not outside of her character to do it, it's the whole reason they decimated southshore, it's the whole reason Darius Crowley offered the people of Southshore the Worgen "curse", so they would be immune to undeath and she couldn't resurrect them. She cares only for her people, and wants more of them.

[Wildmoon]

Its a race created to be slaves, and by most part, doesn't give two shits about being slaves. So why not ?

Are you serious? Historically, there were slaves who were confortable with being one. That does not make slavery ok in the slightest.

[Jastall]

Sylvanas has always wanted to kill as many humans as possible to turn into forsaken, because they have no other way to expand or replenish their population, this isn't something new and it's not outside of her character to do it, it's the whole rteason they decimated southshore, it's the whole reason Darius offered the people of Southshore the Worgen curse, so they would be immune to undeath. She cares only for her people, and wants more of them.

Can't we just have a Warchief that 1) does things while also 2) not doing stupid things, for a change? I want no part in miss dead boob's zombie apocalypse. And does she think the rest of the Alliance will twiddle their thumbs as she plays at being the Lich Queen?

Didn't think I could dislike Sylvanas more, but this might do it. The character has long overstayed its welcome. Worst part is, she has Thrall-tier plot armor at this point so she probably won't even face consequences for this act if it happens.

[Wildmoon]

Nah, most other leaders don't give a crap either. Its all about politics. Just like real life.

Except it's not that extreme in real life. Your political leaders are certianly not of different species from you.Most of the times they are aligned with certain ideology except in some cases which is still considered bad. Also it has not been historically the case for the horde either. Thrall and Vol'Jin did not struggle with pretending to care about the horde as whole. They actually cared. Sylvanas said it was a great pain for her pretending..

[Friendlyimmolation]

Can't we just have a Warchief that 1) does things while also 2) not doing stupid things, for a change? I want no part in miss dead boob's zombie apocalypse. And does she think the rest of the Alliance will twiddle their thumbs as she plays at being the Lich Queen?

Didn't think I could dislike Sylvanas more, but this might do it. The character has long overstayed its welcome. Worst part is, she has Thrall-tier plot armor at this point so she probably won't even face consequences for this act if it happens.

This is just as silly as demanding Genn pay for his crimes against the Horde by killing Horde soldiers. The Horde is likely to give two fucks in the end as long as the Alliance loses, much like the Alliance will give two fucks if the Horde loses.

And on topic, people have no fucking idea what plot armor is.

[Deleted]

For some reason all I wrote vanished for whatever reason.

I might be overthinking it, or missing something. But what if she'll end up saving the horde by attacking the Alliance? I mean indirectly (or directly) saving it by weakening the Alliance before they get an opportunity to attack. Basically Garithos all over again. What if that's what the Loa told Vol'Jin, that no one else but her would have the balls to actually attack the alliance. The alliance wants to probably end the horde after what happened in the broken shore. They are probably already plotting their advance. What if they mean to end the horde now when the legion has been dealt with? Now while they are celebrating/off-guard, it'd make for an quick and easy attack. And by attacking the alliance so suddenly they'll have the element of surprise, which will result in the alliance taking heavy losses, which will even out the factions, making them equally strong to one another. Which in turn will lead to another faction/force to appear, in an attempt to conquer the world, now while the two factions are destroying eachother?

Quite honestly this is one of the few ways I can justify the writing Vol'Jin got in Legion. Him doing absoloutely nothing only to make things even worse for the horde would shit on his character. He'd just end up looking dumber than before

[Schattenlied]

Can't we just have a Warchief that 1) does things while also 2) not doing stupid things, for a change? I want no part in miss dead boob's zombie apocalypse.

she has been this person since far before she was made warchief... Did people think she was going to become a goody two shoes as a result of her promotion?

And does she think the rest of the Alliance will twiddle their thumbs as she plays at being the Lich Queen?

She probly thinks she can get in and do it, and resurrect the fallen into her service before the rest of the Alliance military gets there, and then overpower them... Though she would have had to have figured a way around the whole people the valkyr resurrect have free will thing, because they would otherwise turn on her like what happened outside Gilneas when whatshisface shot her in the face with a shotgun.

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You don't complain about shadow priests. Or warlocks.

We do when they try to murder people in mass.

Or torpedos. You know what happens to human directly hit by torpedo ? Not a pleasant sight, and yet nooone complains.

have you read the rules of warfare here in the real world, where is prohibits the use of munitions like this against people directly? People complained, a long ass time ago in fact, and now there's rules against it... We're not even allowed to use hollow point bullets in the military.

Its a race created to be slaves, and by most part, doesn't give two shits about being slaves. So why not ?

False, they are volunteers.

That's a fanon, and there nothing to prove it. Other than ramblings on this forum. And she definately asks about consent - see starting zone.

Riiiiight, that's why she revives people that then shoot her in the face with shotguns because they didn't want to be revived.

Nah, she isn't. She just uses her strong cards, like everyone else does.

That's not an excuse for committing war crimes.

[vilememory]

I don’t get it, when has Sylvanas ever shown any interest in Stormwind let alone animosity?

Deal a great blow to the Alliance, but also there are other reasons as well. Revenge is probably one of them, with Arthas gone that hate boner has to be aimed at something. The humans made Arthas, Arthas killed her people! Therefore the humans must be punished for creating Arthas! But also there is this, who is able to be raised into undeath? Elves, but there are not enough of them to bolster the ranks of the Foresaken. Worgen can't be turned, and the val'kyr aren't strong enough to turn the other races from what we know. So we just have the humans, how better to bolster the ranks of the Forsaken! War, so many fallen! Raised as undead, their only choice to either be cut down by the living or to join the cult of Sylvanas!

[Wildberry]

>Garrosh starts a war
>Sylvie complains
>Sylvie goes on to start a war

What have I missed?

[Jastall]

This is just as silly as demanding Genn pay for his crimes against the Horde by killing Horde soldiers. The Horde is likely to give two fucks in the end as long as the Alliance loses, much like the Alliance will give two fucks if the Horde loses.

And on topic, people have no fucking idea what plot armor is.

Freedom from the consequences of your acts is one of the surest signs of plot armor, and Sylvanas is clad in it. Not to mention she canonically can resurrect from any number of deaths the writers please because of them Val'kyrs; dunno how that's not plot armor.

If she attacks Stormwind for no reason beyond wanting fresh corpses, fine, but I want her to die and I don't want a repeat of Garrosh where the entire Horde just stands by and lets the Warchief drag them into a ruinous war for stupid and selfish reasons.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Oh look at that, people still spouting incorrect nonsense about Godfrey too, he killed her because he hated her weakness.

As for "muh Blight" as Arrashi already said, argument invalid with magic in general.

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Freedom from the consequences of your acts is one of the surest signs of plot armor, and Sylvanas is clad in it. Not to mention she canonically can resurrect from any number of deaths the writers please because of them Val'kyrs; dunno how that's not plot armor.

If she attacks Stormwind for no reason beyond wanting fresh corpses, fine, but I want her to die and I don't want a repeat of Garrosh where the entire Horde just stands by and lets the Warchief drag them into a ruinous war for stupid and selfish reasons.

Sylvanas has no more plot armor than any other leader, if she dies she dies, if she doesn't she doesn't


All factions leaders have "plot armor" until they die, at which point they don't

[Schattenlied]

>Garrosh starts a war
>Sylvie complains
>Sylvie goes on to start a war

What have I missed?

She complained because Garrosh hated every race in the Horde except Orcs, and tried to genocide the forsaken by sending them on a suicide mission into Gilneas... The only reason it didn't end as he intended was her use of the plague against orders.

[Friendlyimmolation]

>Garrosh starts a war
>Sylvie complains
>Sylvie goes on to start a war

What have I missed?

Eventually we will get Siege of Thunder bluff and Kill Baine, calling it.

[Trumpcat]

Let's see what's the context first.
Meanwhile I am sitting here next to Jaina with the biggest "I TOLD YOU SO" sign ready to start shoving it in peoples' faces for the rest of WoW's history. There is a chance that the context will not provide reasons for me to do that, but sounds like it will. So I'm just waiting a bit to be certain.

[Arrashi]

We do when they try to murder people in mass. have you read the rules of warfare here in the real world, where is prohibits the use of munitions like this against people directly? People complained, a long ass time ago in fact, and now there's rules against it... We're not even allowed to use hollow point bullets in the military.

No, we do only if they hit wrong guys. As long as its "bad guys" its a-ok.
Oh and drone strikes say "hi".

False, they are volunteers.

Helya was a volunteeing really hard.

Riiiiight, that's why she revives people that then shoot her in the face with shotguns because they didn't want to be revived.

If they didn't wanted to be revived they would shoot themselves. Goodfrey and co. had general issues with authority.

That's not an excuse for committing war crimes.

Something, something nukes, something victors write the history. Also are you seriously try to use modern day ethic to fantasy, medieval world ?

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Eventually we will get Siege of Thunder bluff and Kill Baine, calling it.

Let's just skip directly to Siege of Mudmugs place.

[Jastall]

Oh look at that, people still spouting incorrect nonsense about Godfrey too, he killed her because he hated her weakness.

As for "muh Blight" as Arrashi already said, argument invalid with magic in general.

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Sylvanas has no more plot armor than any other leader, if she dies she dies, if she doesn't she doesn't


All factions leaders have "plot armor" until they die, at which point they don't

Yeah, I'm sure Lor'themar or Gallywix kicking the bucket would have as much effect on the fanbase as Sylv, because she clearly doesn't have a massive fanbase and Blizzard doesn't care about this sort of thing /s.

[Friendlyimmolation]

Yeah, I'm sure Lor'themar or Gallywix kicking the bucket would have as much effect on the fanbase as Sylv, because she clearly doesn't have a massive fanbase and Blizzard doesn't care about this sort of thing /s.

Not how plot armor works, by everyone's definition of it in these forums, every leader is encased in plot armor, until they die that is.

[Schattenlied]

No, we do only if they hit wrong guys. As long as its "bad guys" its a-ok.
Oh and drone strikes say "hi".

And the only reason they get away with it is by rules lawyering the fuck out of the loopholes in the law, by saying they used the munitions to destroy a vehicle they were in, or a building. They are not allowed to directly strike people...

Helya was a volunteering really hard.

Yes, she didn't, however all of the Valkyr who serve with Eyir, the ones Sylvanas sought to enslave, serve willingly.

If they didn't wanted to be revived they would shoot themselves.

If they didn't want to be revived she shouldn't have done so in the first place.

Something, something nukes, something victors write the history.

Should I just insert a LMGTFY here about how conventional bombings on the mainland of Japan killed more people than the nukes have, or would you not even care?