1. #1

    Some questions about Blood (Mythic+)

    Hello fellas. I have finally decided to start tanking and even though I am pretty familiar with my Frost DK, I am a little noobish if it comes to the blood spec. I have saw several guides and I am a little bit confused about the talent choices for Mythic+. Here are my questions regarding tanking as blood (bear in mind that my talent questions are related to the the Icy Veins guide)

    • Bloodworms is marked as "not worth taking". Why is that so? For me personally it looks better than Blooddrinker on M+
    • They say that "Tombstone is not currently competitive". Yes, Red Thirst is really good, but Tombstone can be really useful on high M+ when you need to mitigate a strong attack from a mob
    • This is my armory profile. I don't have any Blood-specific gear. However, my legos are non-spec related. Right now I have equipped Sould of the Deathlord and Sephuz. I also have KJBW. Which combination of those 3 legendaries would you recommend me?
    • Can you recommend me some good Blood DK guides? I know there are many, but as a "noob" I can not really distinguish the good and the bad ones
    • Are there any general tips/tricks/tactics/advice that you would like to share with me?


    Thanks a lot in advance,
    Kris

  2. #2
    Blooddrinker provides both more Damage and more Healing than Bloodworms. In the current state Blooddrinker is the best Talent for all situations.

    Tombstone itself isnt a bad CD, it just cannot compete with Red Thirst because Vampiric Blood is such a strong CD. If there is a fight which requires you to mitigate a strong attack regularly you are better off with Rune Tap for e.g. But for most M+ Keys you dont need it. (Something like First boss in Maw of Souls on high tyrannical could be worth it)

    I´d go with Sephuz and KJBW for the extra damage. Sephuz is overall one of the best legendaries for m+ because you can pretty much proc it on CD, except for bosses. (If you have the Cloak you can use it in necrotic weeks to cheese the debuff)

    You will find the best BDK guide in den Acherus DK Discord,

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Krizerion View Post
    [*] Bloodworms is marked as "not worth taking". Why is that so?
    because it's not controllable - and generally speaking when you're looking at guides or any kind of theorycraft discussion, an RNG based ability needs to be substantially more powerful than its on-demand counterparts in order to even be considered worth it.

    also the thing you need to remember is this:
    1. icyveins talent guides are focused on raiding, not general use and not M+
    2. you already have significant on-demand self healing, so adding a relatively minor amount of RNG healing isn't really that helpful.

    the other two row 1 talents offer either good snap single target healing, or a massive boost to your runic power generation in multi-target fights.
    IMO if you're looking at specifically going after M+ you want to go with heartbreaker because on the bigger M+ pulls and using DnD (which makes heart strike hit every target in front of you) you're getting 40-50 runic power per heart strike, so you're just up to your eyeballs in runic power and can dump it into death strike... a 30s CD single target heal that ability locks you for 3 seconds isn't helpful.

    legendaries: really doesn't matter, between those 3 - they're equally 'meh'

    general tips and tricks:
    it really depends on what level of M+ you're wanting to do.
    looking at your armory, your gear is good enough that basically you can faceroll a 10-12 (depending on the affixes) while doing a bog-standard rotation.
    but here's a couple things based on what i see from random DKs in groups:

    1. never ever use the ability 'death's caress' - don't even bind it to your hotkeys. every time you use that spell in a dungeon, little innocent babies get sodomized and you make baby jesus cry.
    (note: exception to be made for wanting to pull a random pather or other nearby mob that didn't join up with the pack you're fighting but you don't have anything else available to tag it with. even then, you're better off waiting for taunt to refresh or some shit, i only mention it to forestall the inevitable reply listing some archaic circumstance where you could theoretically use it without making you pants-on-head retarded for having pushed that buton)

    2. train yourself to keep your HP bar in the corner of your eye and to resist the urge to instantly hit death strike as soon as your HP drops, and try not to double-death-strike except after taking a lot of damage, remembering that it heals for a percentage of the damage done to you in the last 5s.

    3. do something with either weakauras or (my preference) tellmewhen to track shit like bone shield charges and 'recently used death strike' buffs, as this is vital on a lot of the active mitigation bosses in legion.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    because it's not controllable - and generally speaking when you're looking at guides or any kind of theorycraft discussion, an RNG based ability needs to be substantially more powerful than its on-demand counterparts in order to even be considered worth it.

    also the thing you need to remember is this:
    1. icyveins talent guides are focused on raiding, not general use and not M+
    2. you already have significant on-demand self healing, so adding a relatively minor amount of RNG healing isn't really that helpful.
    Agree.
    IMO if you're looking at specifically going after M+ you want to go with heartbreaker because on the bigger M+ pulls and using DnD (which makes heart strike hit every target in front of you) you're getting 40-50 runic power per heart strike, so you're just up to your eyeballs in runic power and can dump it into death strike... a 30s CD single target heal that ability locks you for 3 seconds isn't helpful.
    Have to disagree here. The heartbreaker talent isn't helpful either. Because you're constantly swimming in RP. What's the point in having even more RP if you'll have a hard time spending it ?
    legendaries: really doesn't matter, between those 3 - they're equally 'meh'
    What ? No man. Sephuz is actually one of the strongest legendary if not the strongest for M+. People really need to get rid of this sephuz = bad leggo stereotype because it doesn't apply to all classes.
    3. do something with either weakauras or (my preference) tellmewhen to track shit like bone shield charges and 'recently used death strike' buffs, as this is vital on a lot of the active mitigation bosses in legion.
    Or downloard compact runes addon. It basically has everything you need to know and you have (almost) nothing to configure.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Malkiah View Post
    IMO if you're looking at specifically going after M+ you want to go with heartbreaker because on the bigger M+ pulls and using DnD (which makes heart strike hit every target in front of you) you're getting 40-50 runic power per heart strike, so you're just up to your eyeballs in runic power and can dump it into death strike... a 30s CD single target heal that ability locks you for 3 seconds isn't helpful.

    legendaries: really doesn't matter, between those 3 - they're equally 'meh'
    The Maximum Runic Power you gain per Heartstrike is 25. 15 for HS itself and 5x2 for a Maximum of 5 Targets you can hit with HS while in your dnd, if there are are more than 5 Targets you cant hit all of them.

    And as long as Blooddrinker is being cast on CD it beats Heartbreaker, because a) not every pull is 5 Targets and b) you dont have 100% uptime on DND to hit multiple Targets all the time. So the avg. numbers of Targets hits per HS is much lower than ppl estimate, even in Dungeons.

    Legendaries:
    Sephuz is amazing for m+. You only want to equip something else for bossights that dont allow you to proc it. KJBW provides some solid extra damage is much stronger than the Deathlord ring for m+

    Ideally you go with Sephuz/Chest for trash, Switch to Shoulders/Bracers/Trinket for Bosses and go with Boots for movement between packs.
    Last edited by Schlars; 2017-11-07 at 07:18 AM.

  6. #6
    Bloodsail Admiral msdos's Avatar
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    DPS outgears everything so badly right now I just wear chest and boots. The faster you clear the trash and physically move through the instance, the better your chances are at 3 chesting these, which you should be.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    DPS outgears everything so badly right now I just wear chest and boots. The faster you clear the trash and physically move through the instance, the better your chances are at 3 chesting these, which you should be.
    Isn't the whole point of M+ that you can not out gear it? Get a higher key and will need to worry about survivability.

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Tehr's Avatar
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    Tombstone is hot garbage because it gives you a pretty mediocre shield at the cost of a ~50% reduced cooldown on Vampiric Blood. Even the active effect of Vampiric Blood aside, the shield you get from Umbilicus Eternus is almost always better than Tombstone in an AoE situation. Tombstone also requires that you dump extra GCDs to recoup your Bone Shield stacks (the RP you gain from it makes it net neutral in RP) so you have a small window of vulnerability.

    Blood Worms are also hot garbage. If you're uncomfortable taking Blooddrinker then you can take Heartbreaker, but Blooddrinker is still superior in almost all realistic scenarios.

    I'd use Sephuz at all times, and then swap between Soul and KJBW depending on the dungeon and affix combo. Keep in mind to NEVER equip or unequip Soul during a dungeon (except in very rare circumstances), because you have to run out of the dungeon to talent Rune Tap, and unequipping Soul also takes away Foul Bulwark, leaving you without a T6 talent. I personally use Sephuz for all trash, and all boss fights with an add that can be stunned/gripped or an interrupt. The dream legendary combo is Chest/Sephuz for most trash packs, especially on Fortified weeks, and Shoulders/Bracers for boss fights with no way to proc Sephuz. I consider Soul, Belt, and Cloak to be niche legendaries that are incredibly strong if you make full use of their effects, but otherwise quite weak.
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  9. #9
    Stood in the Fire Llarold's Avatar
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    Bloodworms is never worth using. The damage and burst healing from Blooddrinker is important in M+ (and raids). BD is one of the strongest offensive/self-healing tools Blood has, and there's no level in Mythic+ at which tank damage stops mattering (it matters more the higher you go!).

    Tombstone is a defensive loss, and Red Thirst majorly increases the usage frequency of Blood's best overall defensive CD, Vampiric Blood. Tombstone can't compete with that, even situationally.

    Sephuz's Secret is not a bad legendary for Blood, especially in Mythic+. Death Grip, Asphyxiate, and interrupts can all proc Sephuz's Haste effect. Deathlord is okay for high level M+, DPS trinket is good for lower-level speed clears.

    As for Blood DK guides, I write the Wowhead one and Volstatz writes the Icy-Veins one. While I can't vouch for his specifically, I can vouch for him as a DK. He knows the class.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tehr View Post
    I'd use Sephuz at all times, and then swap between Soul and KJBW depending on the dungeon and affix combo. Keep in mind to NEVER equip or unequip Soul during a dungeon (except in very rare circumstances), because you have to run out of the dungeon to talent Rune Tap, and unequipping Soul also takes away Foul Bulwark, leaving you without a T6 talent.
    Agreed, this is a great tip.
    Last edited by Llarold; 2017-11-12 at 01:28 AM.

  10. #10
    Bloodsail Admiral msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    Isn't the whole point of M+ that you can not out gear it? Get a higher key and will need to worry about survivability.
    I'm addressing the OP who isn't going to be doing a +11 any time soon. I have no idea what his gear even looks like, he may need to not even worry about survivability and just wants to learn tanking.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by msdos View Post
    I'm addressing the OP who isn't going to be doing a +11 any time soon. I have no idea what his gear even looks like, he may need to not even worry about survivability and just wants to learn tanking.
    Well, he linked his armory showing 935 gear equipped, so even if the secondary allocation sucks it is still more than enough to pug an 11. I'm pretty sure I did my first +10 at around 920 with no legendaries (pure Argus gear), granted I dont pretend I didn't know to tank in general at that point but i was new to DK and it was still with a complete pug from LFG. On top of that, if he is just learning to tank he should definitely focus on survivability rather than raw DPS as it will allow him to make mistakes without dying and thus wiping the group.

  12. #12
    Bloodsail Admiral msdos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donimic View Post
    Well, he linked his armory showing 935 gear equipped, so even if the secondary allocation sucks it is still more than enough to pug an 11. I'm pretty sure I did my first +10 at around 920 with no legendaries (pure Argus gear), granted I dont pretend I didn't know to tank in general at that point but i was new to DK and it was still with a complete pug from LFG. On top of that, if he is just learning to tank he should definitely focus on survivability rather than raw DPS as it will allow him to make mistakes without dying and thus wiping the group.
    We're having a pointless conversation, all I did was simply state the nature of Mythic+ right now, for me personally. That statement was for the OP to gather what he wants from it.
    If you need survivability, you need survivability, if you don't, you want speed. Period, end of conversation.

  13. #13
    ..........nevermind
    Last edited by Donimic; 2017-11-15 at 03:40 PM.

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