The WoW Classic community is entering a civil war.

[Charge me Doctor]

What I'm gathering from this Reddit thread is the same conclusion I draw from the postings here:

- People who played on Nostalrius and other vanilla private servers ACTUALLY want vanilla, without any QoL changes bullshit

Yeah, because most of them never played vanilla before and want to try it out. They only read romanticized posts about and and watched pvp frag movies and shamans/warriors 1 shotting people. There is nothing wrong to want to try out something that is long gone, but releasing a game in piss-poor state of "my pet still glitches out and refuses to eat", or "this node is impossible to reach for whole 1.* patch and no one bats an eye about it", or "yeah i guess falling down through floor after charging is fun", or "yeah i guess this flag carrier sitting on the wall being unreachable is also fun", or "yeah, not gaining any rage from absorbing an attack is also cool. Better drop my pants of i guess, or just sit to get crit in the face"

There are going to be changes, i sincerely doubt that they'll add stuff like transmogrification (but i really want them to connect retail to classic to classic gear will transfer to retail), or short cast on mount, or mounts and pets not wasting space in bags, or auto-loot, or somewhat troll-hostile roll system (yeah the "best" part of my vanilla experience was to get corpsemaker rolled by fucking healing shamans or hunters). But again, they are aiming at providing authentic vanilla experience, authentic experience is not a copy and paste by any stretch of imagination, if they'll manage to deliver us authentic vanilla experience while also making QoL changes - great, but if these changes will intersect with their vision of "authentic vanilla experience" - they won't make them.

The whole thing about WoW:Classic announcement - is that they literally said nothing about it but "we are going to hire a team to work on this", and the vague "recreate authentic vanilla experience" thing, so everything is just speculation at this point

- - - Updated - - -

If its "vanilla" then it should be day one like release; isnt it?

I would fucking love it

[Deficineiron]

i sincerely doubt that they'll add stuff like transmogrification (but i really want them to connect retail to classic to classic gear will transfer to retail),

I think it is a no-brainer that stuff like this request are likely to be at least partially enabled. Letting retail access classic gear for xmog doesn't directly impact classic gameplay, but is does give one more hook to engage players. I am not saying I personally agree, but that I think blizzard is going to see no compelling reason not to tie classic to retail when appropriate. Classic could help serve as a way to keep people subbed during the last year of an expansion, and tying their achievements in classic to retail somehow is a no-brainer.

I also think achievements could make it in. This is more problematic from a gameplay viewpoint because achievements (or making certain achievements easier to obtain) began to drive changes in game design. a very simple example is city exalted for mounts - was a very serious task to get in classic-bc. they had to trivialize getting other race mounts in order to help people get the achievement. A more onerous effect is where achievements for clearing a raid.dungeon become required to ENTER a group. I would really rather avoid that.

[bladeXcrasher]

Yeah, because most of them never played vanilla before and want to try it out. They only read romanticized posts about and and watched pvp frag movies and shamans/warriors 1 shotting people. There is nothing wrong to want to try out something that is long gone, but releasing a game in piss-poor state of "my pet still glitches out and refuses to eat", or "this node is impossible to reach for whole 1.* patch and no one bats an eye about it", or "yeah i guess falling down through floor after charging is fun", or "yeah i guess this flag carrier sitting on the wall being unreachable is also fun", or "yeah, not gaining any rage from absorbing an attack is also cool. Better drop my pants of i guess, or just sit to get crit in the face"

There are going to be changes, i sincerely doubt that they'll add stuff like transmogrification (but i really want them to connect retail to classic to classic gear will transfer to retail), or short cast on mount, or mounts and pets not wasting space in bags, or auto-loot, or somewhat troll-hostile roll system (yeah the "best" part of my vanilla experience was to get corpsemaker rolled by fucking healing shamans or hunters). But again, they are aiming at providing authentic vanilla experience, authentic experience is not a copy and paste by any stretch of imagination, if they'll manage to deliver us authentic vanilla experience while also making QoL changes - great, but if these changes will intersect with their vision of "authentic vanilla experience" - they won't make them.

The whole thing about WoW:Classic announcement - is that they literally said nothing about it but "we are going to hire a team to work on this", and the vague "recreate authentic vanilla experience" thing, so everything is just speculation at this point

- - - Updated - - -



I would fucking love it

You forgot summoning through the gate to do baron runs without starting the timer, or summoning random people to their death.

[Charge me Doctor]

Classic could help serve as a way to keep people subbed during the last year of an expansion, and tying their achievements in classic to retail somehow is a no-brainer.

I also think that it's a great way to keep people subbed - classic wow is way slower paced and when you do something (say, get a two-handed mace off Gnomeregan optional boss on your paladin) it stays there for a while. So when you are done with your AP 75 and no longer see a reason to play - just hop into a classic server and sit in SW looking for BG group to assemble for an hour, while watching youtube or doing home stuff.

One of my personal problems with modern LFG when i play my tank or healer are instant pop ups. As DPS i can queue and do stuff, then see a popup and decide if i still want to go, or not. As a tank or healer i get instant popup and it just feels like i'm not doing much "outdungeon" content. I kinda miss an ability to queue for shit and, you know, wait for a bit

[Revamp Man]

its not a civil war
on one side you have the people who want classic who understand the good and the bad
on the other side you have the people who saw the announcement and decided they want a piece of that pie but they donw want original vanilla they just want remastered

the first group are right

the second group are idiotic

[Mackeith]

And there is a group like you, who doesn't know how to read. This is not my opinion, it's the opinion of a lot of people that played Classic, and realize it has a lot of issues, and they don't want to go through all the tedious shit (that is there just for the sake of being tedious). Also, your post is beyond stupid, Classic had many patches, I'm sure you don't even know all of them.

So yeah, their opinion isn't less valid than someone like you, who probably never played Classic, but wants to be a purist just to be edgy.

So if I disregard all the ad hominems, you're essentially trying to argue my point is invalid, because the Classic experience consisted of multiple patches, which means you could take a patch/part of a patch that didn't exist in the Classic timeframe, and add it in.

Again, we'd then be creating a new version of the game, that has never existed. You're essentially arguing Blizzard should develop WoW 2, and not WoW Classic (Which is a fair thing, but then I suggest "these people" (read: you, you're not fooling anyone) should start their own movement for that).

Also, for sake of making you better at arguing. Try and supply a metric when stating random things like: "it's the opinion of a lot of people that played Classic".
Secondly: "they don't want to go through all the tedious shit" - sounds like they don't want Classic to me.

[Revamp Man]

So if I disregard all the ad hominems, you're essentially trying to argue my point is invalid, because the Classic experience consisted of multiple patches, which means you could take a patch/part of a patch that didn't exist in the Classic timeframe, and add it in.

Again, we'd then be creating a new version of the game, that has never existed. You're essentially arguing Blizzard should develop WoW 2, and not WoW Classic (Which is a fair thing, but then I suggest "these people" (read: you, you're not fooling anyone) should start their own movement for that).

Also, for sake of making you better at arguing. Try and supply a metric when stating random things like: "it's the opinion of a lot of people that played Classic".
Secondly: "they don't want to go through all the tedious shit" - sounds like they don't want Classic to me.

are you saying classic was tedious????

are you saying that the gear farm for each raid was tedious??
are you saying getting a group together was tedious??
are you saying getting 40 ppl to behave was tedious???
are you saying traveling without a ground mount was tedious???
are you saying taking weeks and grinding because lack of quests was tedious???
are you saying the entirety of vanilla was tedious??

well i agree with you my good sir and anyone who wants vanilla without the tedious aspects doesnt actually want vanilla

nothing in the game wasnt tedious

[Coolit]

As someone who is excited for Classic I don't want any of these mod cons, adding anything major like transmog or Dual Spec takes away from the Vanilla experience and shouldn't be in Classic.

Classic should be Vanilla with a few major bug fixes and client updates to make it run properly with new hardware and that's it, none of this extra BS from Retail.

There was always going to be disagreements on what Classic should be but it's hardly a civil war, why are people so set on splitting the community? I just don't get it.

[Baracuda]

As someone who is excited for Classic I don't want any of these mod cons, adding anything major like transmog or Dual Spec takes away from the Vanilla experience and shouldn't be in Classic.

Classic should be Vanilla with a few major bug fixes and client updates to make it run properly with new hardware and that's it, none of this extra BS from Retail.

There was always going to be disagreements on what Classic should be but it's hardly a civil war, why are people so set on splitting the community? I just don't get it.

There are more sides than purist and "adaptist", those are the main categories though. Only the most extreme people are at "war" though.

I don't want dual spec or transmog but there is other QoL and minor balancing I want, though many seem to believe the latter impossible.

[Flurryfang]

As someone who is excited for Classic I don't want any of these mod cons, adding anything major like transmog or Dual Spec takes away from the Vanilla experience and shouldn't be in Classic.

Classic should be Vanilla with a few major bug fixes and client updates to make it run properly with new hardware and that's it, none of this extra BS from Retail.

There was always going to be disagreements on what Classic should be but it's hardly a civil war, why are people so set on splitting the community? I just don't get it.

People are so set on splitting the community, becasue the Vanilla/Classic community have changed ALOT since Blizzcon. Before it was mostly the hardcore purist, who talked and fought for Vanilla, but now a new wave of players have joined the community, people who are not hardcore purist, but who still want to experience something more like Vanilla was back then. It is very hard to make these 2 groups come together, because they each want different things. One group believes the puriest experience is the best experience no matter what. Changes will polute the experience, even if it is changes to actually improve the overall experience. The other group wants a the best possible fun experience and are ready to let changes happend for that to come true. This group cares about the core of Vanilla, but cares far less for the pure vision of Vanilla. Unless one of these groups drops their core value (pureism Vs changes in the name of fun), there will always be a split.

[Tiral]

I disagree, there is a group you completely missed. The people that would love to play Classic again, but not with all the tedious shit. Sitting in IF for 1h to get a group was fun when you were 15, same as farming mats for hours,

I was 26, now i am 38 and it is np for me to back in THAT game. Your game is legion, forget about vanilla.

[Ganksinatra]

I foresee a couple of other problems.

Like how long can you possibly play classic WoW before you want Burning Crusade to be released? Sure, I am chomping at the bit to play a warrior back when they were the only real tanking game in town (but man will it take forever to kill anything), but honestly once you clear MC, BWL, both AQs and maybe Naxxramas, what are you going to do then?

I'm thinking that the servers might end up being like the legacy servers are on EQ. I really like those, but I also dislike them. Yes, I can relive some of my favorite content from the vanilla game, but there wasn't really a whole lot to DO in the base game. So they made it so that every 3 months, the community (only those with characters on the servers above a certain level) would vote on whether or not to bring out the next expansion. If the vote was no, you waited another 3 months and then tried again, perhaps stalling the game on one xpac for years. If the vote was yes, in 3 months, the next xpac was voted on. Now, you could do something similar with the Vanilla servers, except instead of xpacs, vote on raids being released. Problem being, sooner or later, you're gonna run out of content. Then what? Do they become Burning Crusade servers?

[Tiral]

Like how long can you possibly play classic WoW before you want Burning Crusade to be released? Sure, I am chomping at the bit to play a warrior back when they were the only real tanking game in town (but man will it take forever to kill anything), but honestly once you clear MC, BWL, both AQs and maybe Naxxramas, what are you going to do then?

Clear old raids is not same as u clear today. U need much more time. Only 2-3 items drops for 40 ppl, and it was real hard to gear up. Dont forget T3 system. Legion players, with personal loot and bonus coins cant even imagine how hard it was. So i supose while ppl ll play vanilla, blizzard ll do BC with possibility to go from 60 to 70, but only if u want. Wanna stay vanilla server? - np. That is what we going to(Hope so). Ppl who wants 120-130-140-... lvls, 654 mounts, etc - np, they will play last addon.

[Jngizu]

So if I disregard all the ad hominems, you're essentially trying to argue my point is invalid, because the Classic experience consisted of multiple patches, which means you could take a patch/part of a patch that didn't exist in the Classic timeframe, and add it in.

Again, we'd then be creating a new version of the game, that has never existed. You're essentially arguing Blizzard should develop WoW 2, and not WoW Classic (Which is a fair thing, but then I suggest "these people" (read: you, you're not fooling anyone) should start their own movement for that).

Also, for sake of making you better at arguing. Try and supply a metric when stating random things like: "it's the opinion of a lot of people that played Classic".
Secondly: "they don't want to go through all the tedious shit" - sounds like they don't want Classic to me.

I mean, believe what you want, I personally think they should release the game like it was, with all the bugs and the clunky graphics. Because I firmly believe a big part of the purist crowd like yourself doesn't have any idea what they are getting into.

And what does your first paragraph even't mean? You do realize there's a big difference between release Vanilla and the Naxx patch for example, right?

As for the lot of people, you just need to look at the comments in this sub, or on Reddit. Plenty of people there saying they would love some minor QoL changes.

If you want to give advice to others as to how to debate properly, at least provide well thought-of arguments. In this case, you don't even mention what patch you want them to release and think "anyone that wants some changes are just trolls!". Keeping your head in the sand will not change the fact that those people have as valid opinions as you do, even if you don't want to believe it.

So for one last time, because I'm tired of people like you that keep quoting me when they lack basic reading comprehension. I don't care about it, I'm not going to play it. I just find the "Classic should be exactly how it was, if you want changes, you're a troll REEEEE" attitude laughable, and somewhat pathetic.

As for the tedious shit, there is tedious things that are part of the experience, and there is tedious thing that was just bad game design at the time. Some people would prefer if those were improved on. As I said, I don't care, but I can see their point. But we live in an era where everyone is "if you're not with me, you're against me!", so it's useless to debate.

[Sibylline]

People are so set on splitting the community, becasue the Vanilla/Classic community have changed ALOT since Blizzcon. Before it was mostly the hardcore purist, who talked and fought for Vanilla, but now a new wave of players have joined the community, people who are not hardcore purist, but who still want to experience something more like Vanilla was back then. It is very hard to make these 2 groups come together, because they each want different things. One group believes the puriest experience is the best experience no matter what. Changes will polute the experience, even if it is changes to actually improve the overall experience. The other group wants a the best possible fun experience and are ready to let changes happend for that to come true. This group cares about the core of Vanilla, but cares far less for the pure vision of Vanilla. Unless one of these groups drops their core value (pureism Vs changes in the name of fun), there will always be a split.

I'm pretty sure everyone wants specific changes, it's just that the "purists" don't trust Blizzard to make the right changes (with good reason, looking at live) so they'd rather have the unmodified experience.

Oh and then there's the salty Legion players who say NOPE U GET UNMODIFIED BOKREN VANILA WITH BUGS AND BROKEN CLASES IT FAIL IN 3 DAYS U WILL SEE which you might mistake for purists.

[therealbowser]

Then they can largely ignore most of this feedback which is not relevant.

An attitude like this is very ironic. Does that also mean that they can ignore your feedback since it is not relevant to producing the experience players necessarily want?

I want a mostly pure experience myself, but I am not so arrogant to think or say that "other player's feedback doesn't matter if it doesn't provide the experience I want." Sorry, but that's not how this is going to work. They are making classic servers for players to enjoy, so they are going to create the classic experience people want to play.

My own opinion on this actual topic is that things that don't effect gameplay -- such as new models being an option -- doesn't matter to me, but things that do -- such as LFG tool -- absolutely do. Nothing like the latter should be in the game; in order to preserve the community classic would have had, LFG tools (at least the kind that automatically match up players into a dungeon) cannot be an option. All this said, minor quality of life features such as connecting old flightpaths is completely fine; it just means you click less flightpaths from point A to point B. I fail to see a problem with that.

[Lynkeus]

I highly doubt blizz will release it pure as a lot of "PLZ Blizz, bring vanilla", "oh it was so much better in vanilla" ppl will not play it second month due to hundreds of QOL changes been made to the game and they will not stand it (or they will ask it late, well in fact some even want it now as you can see). But Blizz had spent money on these version of game so they will definitely want to profit of it. Sooo. Its a matter of which QOL changes we will see.

[crusadernero]

Which original experience?

Is it before or after Maraudon/Gurubashi were added? Should people be allowed to toggle their helms & cloaks?

Should it be before battlegrounds where the only pvp is wpvp/gurubashi or is 12 hour AV "original"?

Is the original experience before/after the addition of more raids than MC?

Are Kazzak/Azuregos the only world bosses, or are Dragons of Nightmare also part of the original experience, or is it before they added world bosses?

Are all of the original holidays part of it?

Is AQ20/40 part of it or should they only do before? How about Naxx?

Is the original experience before or after they revamped the talent tree for Druids/Hunters/Warlocks/Warriors?

That's the problem with saying you want the "original experience" when vanilla covered a period of 2+ years. There were a lot of revamps QoL improvements added during that time that I think a lot of people forget about, which a lot of purists will argue against, but they were part of vanilla. So which version of vanilla is the "original experience"?

Most people dont really talk about the QoL improvments that happend in Classic now do they?

All of the things you listed are stuff they can patch over time. Instead of releasing every single raid on first day, I bet they can have MC on release and put out the other raids later on.

[Wries]

Blizzard will simply say "look it's going to be our new version 1.13 with bug fixes, removal of catchup items and that is that", and the debate will be over Hopefully..

[crusadernero]

I foresee a couple of other problems.

Like how long can you possibly play classic WoW before you want Burning Crusade to be released? Sure, I am chomping at the bit to play a warrior back when they were the only real tanking game in town (but man will it take forever to kill anything), but honestly once you clear MC, BWL, both AQs and maybe Naxxramas, what are you going to do then?

I'm thinking that the servers might end up being like the legacy servers are on EQ. I really like those, but I also dislike them. Yes, I can relive some of my favorite content from the vanilla game, but there wasn't really a whole lot to DO in the base game. So they made it so that every 3 months, the community (only those with characters on the servers above a certain level) would vote on whether or not to bring out the next expansion. If the vote was no, you waited another 3 months and then tried again, perhaps stalling the game on one xpac for years. If the vote was yes, in 3 months, the next xpac was voted on. Now, you could do something similar with the Vanilla servers, except instead of xpacs, vote on raids being released. Problem being, sooner or later, you're gonna run out of content. Then what? Do they become Burning Crusade servers?

Well, I dont think that will be a issue for Blizzard in quite some time after classic is released. Leveling, getting raid ready and actually clear the raids(especially naxx) will be require quite some work for the average wow player.

Ofc, those who are hardcore and both played on private servers and got the time for it, will do it in reasonable time. For the majority there will be plenty to do.

Dont forget that retail wow is out there to, so alot of people will play retail and classic.

In classic you need 40(!) people for a raid. 4 horseman in naxx requires 8(!) Warrior(Only warriors) tanks fully decked in tier 2(some tier 1). Just these things makes everything alot more time consuming than people realise.