It feels like the Forsaken and Belfs do not belong to the Horde

[Deleted]

I know that Blizz takes turns telling the story of each race. They already concentrated on orcs, trolls or tauren for a long time and they are on elves and forsaken.

But is there any relationship between eachother? It really feels like the undead and elves do not belong to the rest horde both because of their theme and lore reasons.

This hit to me seeing the new cinematic ; while human, dwarves, nelves, draenei... fit perfectly well as the "good guys" and they have perfectly clear ties between eachother, seeing the orc tauren and troll in Lordaeron ruins defending a sewer made me think why? Why are these shamanistic and even druidistic tribes defending a green goo filled hellhole?

It truly feels like the only reason the horde exists and are togheter is because the Alliance exists just like the nerds and weirdos sit to eachother at lunch just because the cool guys won't accept them. This is ridiculous.

If I was Blizz I would have given the Horde something in common, either a goal or a link to eachother just like the Alliance has.

[Kynario]

It's just a video game man. You're maybe looking to deep into it. It's made the way it is to make it work... simple as that.

[Deleted]

It truly feels like the only reason the horde exists and are togheter is because the Alliance exists just like the nerds and weirdos sit to eachother at lunch just because the cool guys won't accept them. This is ridiculous.

That's been the Horde ever since Warcraft 3 a group who band together to survive....

[Gahk]

The Horde's theme is surviving in a world that hates them. Being all from different backgrounds and philosophies is actually intended. (which is also why horde politics is always in turmoil )

[Casterbridge]

I've always felt the Forsaken should be it's own faction, it might split the player base to much, but seems like it had the potential to be interesting.

And I'm not saying the Forsaken had to be the straight up 'evil' faction, it just seemed they were always an odd fit in the Horde.

[Deleted]

I've always felt the Forsaken should be it's own faction, it might split the player base to much, but seems like it had the potential to be interesting.

And I'm not saying the Forsaken had to be the straight up 'evil' faction, it just seemed they were always an odd fit in the Horde.

Perhaps if the forsaken were trying to use the shamanistic and nature knowledge of the horde to heal them or some shit like that, instead of being the plague 2.0.

[Mushkins]

Give them pretty high elves already, Blizz.

[Swalload]

I know that Blizz takes turns telling the story of each race. They already concentrated on orcs, trolls or tauren for a long time and they are on elves and forsaken.

But is there any relationship between eachother? It really feels like the undead and elves do not belong to the rest horde both because of their theme and lore reasons.

This hit to me seeing the new cinematic ; while human, dwarves, nelves, draenei... fit perfectly well as the "good guys" and they have perfectly clear ties between eachother, seeing the orc tauren and troll in Lordaeron ruins defending a sewer made me think why? Why are these shamanistic and even druidistic tribes defending a green goo filled hellhole?

It truly feels like the only reason the horde exists and are togheter is because the Alliance exists just like the nerds and weirdos sit to eachother at lunch just because the cool guys won't accept them. This is ridiculous.

If I was Blizz I would have given the Horde something in common, either a goal or a link to eachother just like the Alliance has.

That's the problem is playing this game for the story. You end up realizing it sucks ass from a straw.

[Oneirophobia]

If you play WCIII, the night elves aren't necessarily a good fit for the Alliance either. There is a scene in which a bunch of ghouls chase down and eat a whole gaggle of alliance soldiers and Tyrande is watching from the bushes laughing at their misfortune and basically getting off to it.

Honestly, the elves almost need their own faction. They're easily the most xenophobic races in the lore, but it has been significantly downplayed since WCIII concluded and WoW began.

One of the lines the blood elf workers used to emote was "an elf would have thought of something better..!'


However, times change. Things breaking down between the horde, nelves and alliance after the battle for Mount Hyjal seemed unlikely as well, but needed to occur for WoW to take place. Sometimes stuff has to be shoehorned a little to get the gameplay rolling.

- - - Updated - - -

Perhaps if the forsaken were trying to use the shamanistic and nature knowledge of the horde to heal them or some shit like that, instead of being the plague 2.0.

I've always secretly wanted Forsaken shaman. With little gravestones as totems.

[Deleted]

Give them pretty high elves already, Blizz.

No more elves please.

[In Ogres We Trust]

The Blood Elves and the Forsaken should have been in a third faction that's filled with the remnants of the Illidari. Likewise, the Night Elves should have been neutral to the A:H conflict, neutral as playable races, or as the core group for a fourth faction.

[Wyrt]

Night elves and draenei don't really belong to the Alliance either.

It's just what happens when there's a strict 2 faction system in a game that is based on a game with 5 factions.

[Magnagarde]

Because they don't. Their otherwise amazing stories were doctored and fashioned to make them join the Horde storywise and this forceful addition based on forced scripts and scenarios is what you are noticing. Thrall's Horde should've never sided with the undead, the elves should've never accepted to call themselves a part of the Horde and so on.

The lore got twisted and bent through scenarious who have no story-driven value, but only serve to vaguely explain why a race would join the Horde(ie they were alone, they needed support and more, which are reasons that can be applied to literally every new addition that comes to your mind).

- - - Updated - - -

Night elves and draenei don't really belong to the Alliance either.

While they do stand out in the Alliance as being somewhat different, they at least have a very similar ideology and way of interacting with the world around them as the other Alliance races do(ie Light, nature, standard cliches). Fast forward to the Horde and you got tauren druids taking care of a forest or glade, while the Forsaken are bathing another in plague in a zone next door.

Under optimal circumstances, the night elves would've been a third faction of their own, together with the worgen and eventually playable tauren. The blood elves and undead would've been a fourth one.

[Steampunkette]

So let's talk about the different races and whether they fit!

Humans are the alliance. Of course they fit.
Dwarves. Staunch allies of the humans for generations. Even before there were Dwarves and Humans, Earthen and Ironforged worked together. They belong, hard.
Gnomes. Friendly with the humans, close to the dwarves, the Gnomes were also part of the Titan-system in the early world. They belong, hard.
Night Elves. They're friendly with the Alliance and have some reasons to distrust the Horde, but don't really share anything. They don't belong.
Draenei hold to the same noble ideals that the humans strive for (and fail at sometimes). They fit in that respect, but really should be all on their own.
Worgen. Polymorphed humans. They belong.

Now the Horde:
Orcs. Alien invaders bent on world domination make up the core of the Horde, but tried to move away from violent conquest under Thrall, who is the "True" horde leader.
Trolls. Monstrous cannibals that like the Orcs have given up the thing that made them violent and horrible. Still savage, they fit Thrall's vision of redemption perfectly.
Tauren. Calm, warm, simple folk who aren't explicitly evil or good, but who owe the Horde a debt for their aid in fighting the Centaurs. Good enough? Still savage-ish.
Forsaken. Like the Trolls, the Forsaken are monsters who now have the ability to move away from their past actions under the control of Demons (Like the Orcs). They aren't savage, but they fit in "Enough" with the ideal of becoming better than what they were.
Blood Elves. Not Savage, Not seeking Redemption. They're only members of the Horde because the Alliance tried to kill them and Sylvanas used to be an Elf. They don't fit and they know it.
Goblins. Long time neutral party not seeking redemption and not savage, either. They don't really fit, but they're green skinned and apparently that's good enough?

The Forsaken kinda fit the core ideals of the Horde (Not being Scourge members, anymore) but they really should've tried working with Stormwind to join the Alliance. For all their ugliness and horror, they used to be human, and if the humans of Stormwind had tried to recognize that, they'd have been a twisted part of the Alliance living in a rebuilt Lordaeron. Instead they got saddled with Sylvanas who, while a good leader and all, is so distrustful of humans she couldn't fathom it.

[God Save The King]

The Horde has always been a ban of misfits aligning together for survival. If the Alliance wasn't there, I doubt the Horde would stay together, then the Orcs and Forsaken would likely start attacking other races.

[Gaidax]

Well it's kind of a problematic thing, in my mind Horde is something primal, feral, tribal and maybe even monstrous in part. Undead can sort of work there, but Belves are really out of place there, back at Suramar Elisande told them that they have allied themselves with beasts and that's pretty much spot on.

Moving on - Sylvanas of all things being a "Warchief of the Horde" is really iffy too, undead are already somewhat tacked on the Horde and Warchief title really does not go well with undead elf.

It's done deed, but IMO Horde identity is being bastardized for a long time, because of these things.

[vVBlackwolfVv]

i think the same, undead and BE dont fit, its like taking a Noldor Elf from Lotr and tell him to joing the forces of mordor, even so orcs, tauren and trolls are diferent from a Lotr point of view, so they can get into death magic but i dont think the forsaken fit there because they are more of a lost cause that any other race if they are even a race, i think ogres would have fit a lot better, even Bolvar says that he have to take control of the undeads or they go berserk, i think forsaken are more of a time bomb than even warmongering orcs.

[therealstegblob]

The Blood Elves and the Forsaken should have been in a third faction that's filled with the remnants of the Illidari. Likewise, the Night Elves should have been neutral to the A:H conflict, neutral as playable races, or as the core group for a fourth faction.

Because that wouldn't be a fucking mess or anything.

[ello]

So let's talk about the different races and whether they fit!

Humans are the alliance. Of course they fit.
Dwarves. Staunch allies of the humans for generations. Even before there were Dwarves and Humans, Earthen and Ironforged worked together. They belong, hard.
Gnomes. Friendly with the humans, close to the dwarves, the Gnomes were also part of the Titan-system in the early world. They belong, hard.
Night Elves. They're friendly with the Alliance and have some reasons to distrust the Horde, but don't really share anything. They don't belong.
Draenei hold to the same noble ideals that the humans strive for (and fail at sometimes). They fit in that respect, but really should be all on their own.
Worgen. Polymorphed humans. They belong.

Now the Horde:
Orcs. Alien invaders bent on world domination make up the core of the Horde, but tried to move away from violent conquest under Thrall, who is the "True" horde leader.
Trolls. Monstrous cannibals that like the Orcs have given up the thing that made them violent and horrible. Still savage, they fit Thrall's vision of redemption perfectly.
Tauren. Calm, warm, simple folk who aren't explicitly evil or good, but who owe the Horde a debt for their aid in fighting the Centaurs. Good enough? Still savage-ish.
Forsaken. Like the Trolls, the Forsaken are monsters who now have the ability to move away from their past actions under the control of Demons (Like the Orcs). They aren't savage, but they fit in "Enough" with the ideal of becoming better than what they were.
Blood Elves. Not Savage, Not seeking Redemption. They're only members of the Horde because the Alliance tried to kill them and Sylvanas used to be an Elf. They don't fit and they know it.
Goblins. Long time neutral party not seeking redemption and not savage, either. They don't really fit, but they're green skinned and apparently that's good enough?

The Forsaken kinda fit the core ideals of the Horde (Not being Scourge members, anymore) but they really should've tried working with Stormwind to join the Alliance. For all their ugliness and horror, they used to be human, and if the humans of Stormwind had tried to recognize that, they'd have been a twisted part of the Alliance living in a rebuilt Lordaeron. Instead they got saddled with Sylvanas who, while a good leader and all, is so distrustful of humans she couldn't fathom it.

The Forsaken DID try to join the Alliance. In fact they sent ambassadors everywhere, but only Hamuul Runetotem and the Tauren believed they were redeemable.

I also disagree that Blood Elves aren't seeking redemption. That's pretty much what Liadrin's character Is all about. They are still a tight fit but eh, close enough :P

[Gahk]

Goblins. Long time neutral party not seeking redemption and not savage, either. They don't really fit, but they're green skinned and apparently that's good enough?

The bilgewater cartel lost their home, got attacked by the Alliance and saved by the Horde, who offered them a new place to live. They fit in as much as the Tauren to be honest.