It's time to Kill off Thrall

[Whitedragon]

He's been in the Warcraft universe for far too long. All his major work is done.

We need to kill him and make room for new upcoming heroes. It's just a question of how we want to kill him?

Any suggestions?

Honestly I don't think so, I wouldn't mind if he became a new "Drek'thar" type mentor though. I will say the Orcs do need some young blood to revitalize their hero pool. maybe make another up and coming shaman or warrior (I almost said mage but we have enough of them running around.), and have him be a companion throughout an expansion or two sort of like Yrel was to the ally in WoD.

[ozusteapot]

He didn't cheat during the mak'gora or at the very least both of them cheated for not wearing loincloths.


It's never been implied that spirit magic is banned, Thrall used it to stop the mak'gora between him and Garrosh at the beginning of Wrath and iirc the orc shaman in the Bloodsworn comic used her shamanistic powers against a blood elf (who was mocking her as leader) in a mak'gora.

You say this, yet I’m sure you’re aware that the whole ritual is supposed to be a 1 on 1 melee brawl, without any magic.
Even in the movie (for whatever that’s worth) it’s specifically shown how the orcs looked down on Gul’dan for using magic during his Mak’Gora (won’t tell with whom in case you haven’t seen it yet). The movie aired around the same time warlords came out, and I remember distinctly how people were amazed at the time of how Thrall would do exactly what Gul’dan did (cheat via tapping into his magical sorces).

Also isn’t Thrall cheating during the MakGora the reason why he loses touch w/ the elements and loses Doomhammer to begin with?
The only way they could revert his character in my eyes is to turn him back to Warlord Thrall ala WC3-Wrath. Fuck all of that green jesus Cataclysm spawned. Otherwise what’s the point? More cheesy writing for the sake of fan-service.

[Skoll Shorties]

It's actually a lot more equal than you think. We've just had less official High King changes than you've had Warchief changes but as far as deaths go it's pretty even. You are on your 4th Warchief but Thrall is technically still alive and in the Horde so at least you have that going for you. We are on our official second High King but Bolvar took over temporarily for a while.

Alliance Leaders killed:
Varian
Bolvar (A version of Bolvar may be active but as he said "Tell them only that the Lich King is dead. And that Bolvar Fordragon... died with him.")
Magni (He's sorta half gone, sorta like what I imagine Vol'jin will be in BFA)
Genn's son

Horde Leaders killed:
Vol'jin (Dead but spirit lives)
Cairne
Garrosh
Saurfang's son

Why are you counting those who aren't dead? And why are you including Saurfang's son and Genn's son? We're talking about Racial Leaders.

And you say, "You're on your 4th Warchief" like it was a good thing. It really isn't. Bolvar & Magni are both still alive. Liam never really mattered that much to the grand scheme of the Alliance yeah he was important for Genn's developement but I wouldn't count him as a Racial Leader. If the Alliance lost let's say Malfurion and Mekkatorque for some reason then yeah i'd be calling it fair. But so far we've lost Cairne, Garrosh, Vol'jin, and Thrall (who's retired) and three of those were our Faction Leaders while you Alliance folks haven't really lost, lost, your leaders. You legitmentally have only lost Varian - like he's super dead, he's disenchanted. Magni & Bolvar are both still very active. But there is the chance of Vol'jin coming back at least as a ghost.

The argument of this post is that he wants Thrall to die because he's lived long enough which actually can be used in a reason to -NOT- kill Thrall plus they're still clearly doing stuff with him.

[CreatureLives]

Why are you counting those who aren't dead? And why are you including Saurfang's son and Genn's son? We're talking about Racial Leaders.

And you say, "You're on your 4th Warchief" like it was a good thing. It really isn't. Bolvar & Magni are both still alive. Liam never really mattered that much to the grand scheme of the Alliance yeah he was important for Genn's developement but I wouldn't count him as a Racial Leader. If the Alliance lost let's say Malfurion and Mekkatorque for some reason then yeah i'd be calling it fair. But so far we've lost Cairne, Garrosh, Vol'jin, and Thrall (who's retired) and three of those were our Faction Leaders while you Alliance folks haven't really lost, lost, your leaders. You legitmentally have only lost Varian - like he's super dead, he's disenchanted. Magni & Bolvar are both still very active. But there is the chance of Vol'jin coming back at least as a ghost.

The argument of this post is that he wants Thrall to die because he's lived long enough which actually can be used in a reason to -NOT- kill Thrall plus they're still clearly doing stuff with him.

Bolvar is gone. Even if he's not technically "dead" he's still gone and he's no longer in the Alliance. So we did lose him. You didn't lose Thrall, he's just not the Warchief anymore. We lost Bolvar.

If you don't count Magni as dead then you can't count Vol'jin as dead. He'll be back in BFA in spirit form. They are both sorta half gone. Also, Magni isn't really Alliance anymore. Magni is basically just Azeroth's puppet.

And because even if they aren't leaders right now they were in line to be and even if they don't matter to the fanbase they do to the story and the lore heroes. If Liam was still alive right now and Genn died right now his son would be a leader. Same goes with Saurfang and his son. Them dying early would be like if Baine died instead of Cairne or Anduin instead of Varian. They lost their legacy. Their factions lost their future.

I'm not saying being on your 4th Warchief is a good thing. What I'm saying is Alliance have technically had 3. If you remove Thrall who never died and never left then it's even. The Alliance just never had their leader step down.

Also, Thrall really aint retired. He's just stepped back. He was there fighting with the Horde at the broken shore and he's getting a huge role in BFA. That isn't retired. He's still very much apart of the Horde. He's just no longer the Warchief of the Horde and leader of the Orcs. He's still ranked very high.

[Shibito]

I don't really see a reason for him to die. Mainly because i miss the time when our characters was just random adventures, and not high ranking officers in our factions. A lot of people complained about always having our kills stolen by heroes like tyrion, thrall etc, which in the end resulted in the lore heroes never actually doing anything heroic in the game anymore.

I just want him to do something about the bitchqueen that now leads his horde into ruin.

Just like i want malfurion, tyranda, maiev, jarod and shandris to start showing their true power. Night elves were so powerful during wc3, and how they have been able to loose so much over the cause of wow baffles me.

Anyways. If thrall does die, it should be a meaningfull death. Sacrificing himself to restore the horde, saving his children, or what not. Not just get stapped by random old god minion number 47.

Oh look another alliance hating sylvanas what else is new

[Verdugo]

and Rokhan appears to have been tapped as the leader of the Darkspear Trolls.

Haha, tapped, I get it, because he will be tapping the brewfest keg and thats it.

[Skoll Shorties]

Bolvar is gone. Even if he's not technically "dead" he's still gone and he's no longer in the Alliance. So we did lose him. You didn't lose Thrall, he's just not the Warchief anymore. We lost Bolvar.

If you don't count Magni as dead then you can't count Vol'jin as dead. He'll be back in BFA in spirit form. They are both sorta half gone. Also, Magni isn't really Alliance anymore. Magni is basically just Azeroth's puppet.

And because even if they aren't leaders right now they were in line to be and even if they don't matter to the fanbase they do to the story and the lore heroes. If Liam was still alive right now and Genn died right now his son would be a leader. Same goes with Saurfang and his son. Them dying early would be like if Baine died instead of Cairne or Anduin instead of Varian. They lost their legacy. Their factions lost their future.

I'm not saying being on your 4th Warchief is a good thing. What I'm saying is Alliance have technically had 3. If you remove Thrall who never died and never left then it's even. The Alliance just never had their leader step down.

Also, Thrall really aint retired. He's just stepped back. He was there fighting with the Horde at the broken shore and he's getting a huge role in BFA. That isn't retired. He's still very much apart of the Horde. He's just no longer the Warchief of the Horde and leader of the Orcs. He's still ranked very high.

Cairne is dead, permanently. Garrosh is dead, permanently. Varian is dead, permanently. Thrall is "stepped back". Magni is neutral but active. Bolvar is the Lich King but active. Vol'jin is a ghost isn't active yet. I still don't see it as very equal in comparison.

Still gonna argue Thrall's story isn't done with and infact its unfinished there is still much to be told about him. Too many people are just salty over Thrall in Cata and WoD. When he was perfectly fine in MoP and Wrath of the Lich King. I think they'll do his character justice in BfA.

[Garkanh]

Oh look another alliance hating sylvanas what else is new

oh look, another Sylvanas fanboy defending his waifu.

Also, i'm not an alliance player. i'm a wow player. sticking to a single faction is like saying no to almost half the content in the game. I got 16 lvl 110 characters, working on getting that number to 24. I like the horde, i used to like sylvanas.

Also, it's gotten clear for me now why my focus have shifted a bit more towards my alliance characters lately. Playing horde has become somewhat like going back to elementary school, not because of the characters, but the majority of the players choosing horde seems to get younger and younger each year. And i just can't stand raiding with screaming teenagers.

[Techno-Druid]

You say this, yet I’m sure you’re aware that the whole ritual is supposed to be a 1 on 1 melee brawl, without any magic.
Even in the movie (for whatever that’s worth) it’s specifically shown how the orcs looked down on Gul’dan for using magic during his Mak’Gora (won’t tell with whom in case you haven’t seen it yet). The movie aired around the same time warlords came out, and I remember distinctly how people were amazed at the time of how Thrall would do exactly what Gul’dan did (cheat via tapping into his magical sorces).

Also isn’t Thrall cheating during the MakGora the reason why he loses touch w/ the elements and loses Doomhammer to begin with?
The only way they could revert his character in my eyes is to turn him back to Warlord Thrall ala WC3-Wrath. Fuck all of that green jesus Cataclysm spawned. Otherwise what’s the point? More cheesy writing for the sake of fan-service.

Its probably likely that elemental and spirit magic is viewed differently than fel or arcane magic or at the very least they're capable of setting the terms of the mak'gora considering how plenty of them are done with characters wearing armor (which is usually forbidden).


As for why the elements were pissed at Thrall, iirc it wasn't because he used the elements in mak'gora itself, it's that they felt wrongly used or something dumb like that. Let's be honest here, the primary reason Thrall lost the doomhammer was so that shamans could get it.

[Deleted]

Tasteful idea. Be it son of Garrosh who kills him. They have tradition of having 'secret' offspring. I'm sure there is one more or two Hellscreams out there.

Mak'gora cheaters deserve no cookie.

[Deleted]

Sylvanas too.

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Tasteful idea. Be it son of Garrosh who kills him. They have tradition of having 'secret' offspring. I'm sure there is one more or two Hellscreams out there.

Mak'gora cheaters deserve no cookie.

Would love to see this.

Garrosh is older than Thrall, and the Chieftain of the Dragonmaw did her best to impress him.

Imagine the lesser ranked Orc ladies.

I hope there are at least 3 new sons (or daughters) of Hellscream, even with different ladies. I don't mind... just continue the bloodline of Hellscream. Avenge him!!

[Deleted]

Its probably likely that elemental and spirit magic is viewed differently than fel or arcane magic or at the very least they're capable of setting the terms of the mak'gora considering how plenty of them are done with characters wearing armor (which is usually forbidden).


As for why the elements were pissed at Thrall, iirc it wasn't because he used the elements in mak'gora itself, it's that they felt wrongly used or something dumb like that. Let's be honest here, the primary reason Thrall lost the doomhammer was so that shamans could get it.

This BE did not care about mak'gora or the rules, he just wanted to fight. Also she used totem to fight, it fits into 'shaman's blessing' part.

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Sylvanas too.

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Would love to see this.

Garrosh is older than Thrall, and the Chieftain of the Dragonmaw did her best to impress him.

Imagine the lesser ranked Orc ladies.

I hope there are at least 3 new sons (or daughters) of Hellscream, even with different ladies. I don't mind... just continue the bloodline of Hellscream. Avenge him!!

Kill them all!

[Lupinemancer]

He's been in the Warcraft universe for far too long. All his major work is done.

We need to kill him and make room for new upcoming heroes. It's just a question of how we want to kill him?

Any suggestions?

Sylvanas first, then we can talk about possibly killing Thrall!

[Zarc]

Seems like a very weak argument that we should kill him to make room for other heroes, given that all he has done recently is to give room to other heroes by pretty much staying out of sight since the beginning of Legion. In the cinematic for Battle for Azeroth you have Saurfang, nut Thrall, along with what seems to be the main heroes of the beginning of Battle for Azeroth: Sylvanas as Warchief, Anduin and Genn.

[Elderwolf]

way too many pointless deaths in wow, Horde aint felt like horde since garrosh went all nuts... kill off thrall and it wont even be horde.....just leftovers that banded together

well it's felt like that since Mop......Felt like vol'jin was only killed off to stop the alliance player base bitching over the kings death

[Techno-Druid]

Sylvanas too.

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Would love to see this.

Garrosh is older than Thrall, and the Chieftain of the Dragonmaw did her best to impress him.

Imagine the lesser ranked Orc ladies.

I hope there are at least 3 new sons (or daughters) of Hellscream, even with different ladies. I don't mind... just continue the bloodline of Hellscream. Avenge him!!

I like the idea of Garrosh having a relationship with a (now deceased) mag'har orc on Outland, maybe having one or two children that were raised under the care of Jorin Deadeye and Geyah while Garrosh was gone. Then Garrosh actually impregnating Zaela during Cata, producing a gray-skinned Hellscream (mentored by maybe Saurfang or Eitrigg) to act as a rival to Durak.

Better yet, throw Vol'jin's children in the bunch and have Baine start mentoring some taunka or yaugol (because yaungol are badass).

[Zulkhan]

You know what's more annoying than the whole Green Jesus nonsense? The people asking to kill Thrall everytime he shows up for whatever reason.

Thrall doesn't need to die, he needs to be developed well. His Cataclysm's storyline simply wasn't.

[Jalham]

He's been in the Warcraft universe for far too long. All his major work is done.

We need to kill him and make room for new upcoming heroes. It's just a question of how we want to kill him?

Any suggestions?

Doubt they will kill the only reason Chris metzen still comes to blizzard for (voicing him).

[Dagoth Ur]

You know what's more annoying than the whole Green Jesus nonsense? The people asking to kill Thrall everytime he shows up for whatever reason.

Thrall doesn't need to die, he needs to be developed well. His Cataclysm's storyline simply wasn't.

Even though it was over the top and cringy af I see this whole Green Jesus thing as part of somewhat decent Thrall's character development.

While he ran off pretending to be superhero and get married, his life work and legacy managed to stray off from what Vol'jin, Cairne and he formerly envisioned.
And he's the main guy to blame it all on since he put Garrosh in Warchief position although both Cairne and Vol'jin and even Garrosh himself advised against it.

I mean biggest part of Thrall's character arc atm is dealing with regret and past mistakes, dude is perfectly set up for semi-redemption story, not killiing off.

[Zulkhan]

Even though it was over the top and cringy af I see this whole Green Jesus thing as part of somewhat decent Thrall's character development.

While he ran off pretending to be superhero and get married, his life work and legacy managed to stray off from what Vol'jin, Cairne and he formerly envisioned.
And he's the main guy to blame it all on since he put Garrosh in Warchief position although both Cairne and Vol'jin and even Garrosh himself advised against it.

I mean biggest part of Thrall's character arc atm is dealing with regret and past mistakes, dude is perfectly set up for semi-redemption story, not killiing off.

Yeah, I agree that Thrall's development as a whole was decently done. It looks really bad if you take Cataclysm alone in consideration, where Thrall looked way too more of a neutral superhero (even though he was Warchief of the Horde just the expansion before) and the general execution of that storyline has been terribad.