99% of pro-change people never played Classic

[Macaquerie]

Vanilla had more than its share of asshats. With tanking being by far the toughest role and healing being a tricky and often thankless task (though often blamed for failure) it wasn't uncommon for the people taking on those roles to be a bit douchey (and some warriors were total primadonnas.) Raids being much less accessible bred a sense of elitism among hardcore raiders (with the name "Elitist Jerks" not being completely ironic) and gold/gear being harder to obtain meant ninja-looting was rife. Also with content being a lot more difficult for the casual/PuGging crowd a single bad player could ruin a dungeon run so impatient people could easily turn into complete dicks.

But the game was a lot more social, largely I think due to the slower pace giving people time to chat without sacrificing progress. Stopping to drink, waiting for resses and corpse runs offer a lot of time to type at each other. Having to hang around places like Ironforge whilst waiting for groups to form made them into a sort of playground with players just running around, setting off spells/abilities or showing off pets and mounts. Also whilst the more difficult content could lead to people getting mad at newer players it also opened up opportunities for more positive interactions. Whereas now a bad player in LFD or LFR can be largely ignored and carried by the rest of the group, in Vanilla it made more sense to give them a few tips, and some players were more than happy to mentor newbs after a dungeon run, offering help on gear and how to use their abilities.

Vanilla was indeed a more social game, but every time I see someone waxing nostalgic about how much better the community was back then, I really have to wonder what the hell they were on at the time. Yeah, there were a handful of players per server that everyone would more or less recognize, but these people would invariably abuse the shit out of this status to act like complete douchebags to the rest of the anonymous casual scrubs, and make sure that nobody could just play the game in peace without knowing every last detail of their guild and faction drama.

Yeah sure, the nature of the game meant you had to interact more with other players, but once again it's questionable whether this was as great as people remember. The friendships you made in-game were all sort of built on this paper thin foundation of needing each other to clear content and obtain phat lewtz. If the bonds between players were really that strong, then you would want to interact with people purely to enjoy the pleasure of their company, you wouldn't need all these game mechanics to force you to talk to them.

Let's face it, at the end of the day, we're gamers. We're a pack of freaks and geeks, weirdos and misfits that all come together in this game to slay dragons and collect purples. Sure, that in its own way is kind of cool and can make for some memorable experiences, but it's more one of those once in a lifetime things that was special because it happened organically, and can't really be replicated no matter how hard you try to make it happen.

[Ferocity]

I have plenty of memories connected with the gnolls in Elwynn and Redrdige. They are still super shitty models. I spent easily half of my time in Vanilla RPing in Stormwind and Elwynn, and have fond memories all over them but I would gladly take a visually updated Stormwind and Goldshire over this kind of crap. Not to mention the old water.

I feel like people who don't want graphical updates are just whining about old things being better for the sake of whining about old things being better. I sure as hell would rather revist old areas with nice water, lighting, shadow, grass density and physics and mobs.

Second Quilboar picture doesn't look like something from Classic WoW...
And with those kind of graphics, Classic WoW will be only available to people with good PCs, which also defeats the point.

Also, if you want to revisit old areas with nice water (not sure why you dislike old water), lightning, shadow, etc., why don't you revisit them on retail? You know that beside graphics, the leveling is like 1000 times slower, you won't have mount ill 40, and at 40 you won't have gold for it? You will ask to change this too, so you could enjoy the game, because it is unarguably "better" - and you will yell EXTREMELY LOUD that it is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, it is BETTER!!! Ruining game for others. Then you say that talents are dumb, 1% increase to this and that is stupid, you want them be "improved" to that retail shit.

Spare yourself some time, go play retail, there you already have everything you ask.

[bryroo]

"I remember how bad the game was, im not gonna play it", then don't play it, no one is forcing you, i don't see why people have to complain about it :P

You can't throw a stone without hitting a post complaining about Live on the Moochamp forums.

The complaints are well deserved.

[ManiaCCC]

I played Vanilla, can't wait for Classic, but I still would love to see changes where they are needed. Have dead specs just because "it is vanilla' is stupid. Also, why not have upgraded graphics? New models? New shaders? (still love original water shader soo much). Quest flow was very hit and miss these days, also drop rates for quests were insane sometimes. There are tons of possibilities, how to improve classic WoW, So hopefully, we will see some needed changes.

But if they will make classic Shaman dual wield again, I will flip table...seriously!

[judgementofantonidas]

450% of all statistics are made up

one of my father's favorite sayings was "figures don't lie but liars do a lot of figuring".
still holds true today when someone starts spouting unsuported percentages.

[Daffan]

I played classic, classic sucked compared to the game as it is today. It was grindy as hell, the pace was so slow and even the classes and factions were ridicolously imbalanced.

All in all? I'd rather play the lowest moment of WoD than classic/vanilla.

Classic has a lot of crap but at least it isn't a game fueled by welfare where most content is made trivial or obsolete in 2 weeks. If your a Mythic raider it's cool but for everyone else it's like the game is playing itself.

[moremana]

Doubt it's 99% but if they don't want classic, why do they want changes to it? Shouldn't they just mind their own business and keep playing the current expansion?

You would think, but most of the current players are mindless players that think after killing 5 boars they should get an epic trinket.

[Sigxy]

99% of all people who demand such and such changes, they never actually played Classic. They are too dumb to understand that people feel nostalgy for old WoW with its graphics, with its pluses AND minuses.

I greatly fear for future of Classic servers if this overly loud minority will screw it for us.

People like them already caused the ruination of old WoW by constantly demanding changes on retail. Why can't they stick to Legion with all its new graphics, security updates, addons' API, homogenized classes and such?

I hope Blizzard won't do half-a**ed job and will actually reconstruct Classic as it was. With original client, original graphics, original UI, original gameplay. THAT one original WoW that veterans miss so much.

And to people who demand changes: go to Legion, you have everything you want there....

Well, hey, I guess I'm the 1% then according to you - nice!

I want to try the old Classic again, but let's be real here: It's going to be extremely bad if they don't adjust some numbers for some classes. I'm not asking them to change abilities and such, but there was a reason a lot of specs were laughed at. Blizzard said they wanted to bring it to a blizzard standard, so I can only hope that the lowest DpS.. well, they remain lowest DpS, but they still need to have their damage numbers adjusted!

[Dahij]

You would think, but most of the current players are mindless players that think after killing 5 boars they should get an epic trinket.

True, but I believe there will be a lot of veterans coming back. I have friends that quit during different expansions, one of them who quit right after BC release and theyre all excited to at least give classic a try.

[moremana]

True, but I believe there will be a lot of veterans coming back. I have friends that quit during different expansions, one of them who quit right after BC release and theyre all excited to at least give classic a try.

Me too, I have friends from long ago that dont play any more, but we talk here and there via text and SM, first thing they all said is:

"Holy shit, Classic is coming back, you going to play?" Im like OFC, so they have all resubbed and getting back in the swing of it. We all created new characters with no heirlooms to play around with until it happens.

They want to stop leveling at 60.

[Deleted]

99% of all people who demand such and such changes, they never actually played Classic. They are too dumb to understand that people feel nostalgy for old WoW with its graphics, with its pluses AND minuses.

I greatly fear for future of Classic servers if this overly loud minority will screw it for us.

People like them already caused the ruination of old WoW by constantly demanding changes on retail. Why can't they stick to Legion with all its new graphics, security updates, addons' API, homogenized classes and such?

I hope Blizzard won't do half-a**ed job and will actually reconstruct Classic as it was. With original client, original graphics, original UI, original gameplay. THAT one original WoW that veterans miss so much.

And to people who demand changes: go to Legion, you have everything you want there....

Keeping something as it was because of nostalgia and not because it was core for the gameplay that was present in vanilla is moronic. There is a clear distinction.

Changing classes, raids, or leveling changes how the gameplay feels and has a cascading effect on other parts and aspects of game. It will no longer be vanilla. This is not acceptable in any way.

However, whether or not the Classic server uses the same client as retail does not matter AT ALL. Blizzard has to make sure their client is secure to protect from exploiters and attackers. Wanting to preserve the looting bug where you character was stuck in a kneeling position for 30 minutes is based only on nostalgia and is moronic. Blizzard will not allow addons and macros that plays the game for you, causes other players to lag or be exploited, and/or crashes the server.

Something like art and resolution does not matter for either argument. My enjoyment of vanilla at the time was not because of the particular model my character had, it was the slow RPG pacing and community.

EDIT: By the way, the slippery slope argument is a fallacy and cheapens your argument. Saying "Oh, you want an updated client? Might aswell introduce LFR while you are at it!" is moronic.

[Hitei]

Second Quilboar picture doesn't look like something from Classic WoW...
And with those kind of graphics, Classic WoW will be only available to people with good PCs, which also defeats the point.

Also, if you want to revisit old areas with nice water (not sure why you dislike old water), lightning, shadow, etc., why don't you revisit them on retail? You know that beside graphics, the leveling is like 1000 times slower, you won't have mount ill 40, and at 40 you won't have gold for it? You will ask to change this too, so you could enjoy the game, because it is unarguably "better" - and you will yell EXTREMELY LOUD that it is ABSOLUTE TRUTH, it is BETTER!!! Ruining game for others. Then you say that talents are dumb, 1% increase to this and that is stupid, you want them be "improved" to that retail shit.

Spare yourself some time, go play retail, there you already have everything you ask.

So basically you had nothing to say and proceeded to vomit out strawman arguments?

Also, lol. When did "the point" of Classic become to produce something for people that trying to play games on a 10 year old computer?

[Donald Hellscream]

Yay I am in the 1%!

Seriously there are parts of Vanilla that are completely retarded, like bosses having a set number of debuff slots, nothing more aggrevating than being prohibited from using serpent sting as a hunter because it might overwrite a more important debuff.

[solarfallz]

Made-up statistics and shit aside, I will throw in my anecdotal evidence. LITERALLY every person that I know from vanilla that I'm still in contact with wants to play Classic and for there to be no changes. The people I knew from Nost are against changes as well. Obviously this does not represent the entire world, but it sure does suggest to me that the people who ACTUALLY WANTED CLASSIC are probably not the same people pushing for changes.

[Ferocity]

I want to try the old Classic again, but let's be real here: It's going to be extremely bad if they don't adjust some numbers for some classes. I'm not asking them to change abilities and such, but there was a reason a lot of specs were laughed at. Blizzard said they wanted to bring it to a blizzard standard, so I can only hope that the lowest DpS.. well, they remain lowest DpS, but they still need to have their damage numbers adjusted!

That's those people who were the reason of WoW downfall.

I can bring you example from TBC, I had demo warlock and I enjoyed playing it despite majority of people looking at that spec as totally useless [for raids]. You know why I liked it? It gave me a lot of efficiency in questing/farming. If this spec was buffed number-wise, demo warlock would turn into unkillable dps, so his survivability would have to be nerfed. But for what reason? For maximum damage output in raids? i am gonna tell you, in TBC until Sunwell Plateau (well, also in BT Essence fight) were no strict dps checks. People simply wanted to kill stuff as fast as possible as if DPS numbers were only thing that mattered. Guess what, such attitude brought us post-Cata WoW, where all classes are same.

EDIT: By the way, the slippery slope argument is a fallacy and cheapens your argument. Saying "Oh, you want an updated client? Might aswell introduce LFR while you are at it!" is moronic.

My data disk doesn't like CASC and so I avoid current Blizzard games based on CASC. I don't think I am alone, we have economic crisis in my land, and so replacing data disk for new disk, so it could be used by aggressive CASC approach in 10+ years old game is just stupid if not to say moronic.

You want updated client? You already have it. In Legion+.

[ComputerNerd]

Or there are people who played classic, but are not willfully ignorant as to it actually being flawed.#
Players who understand what they had once can't be gained again, because it wasn't just the game which made that.

[ManiaCCC]

Made-up statistics and shit aside, I will throw in my anecdotal evidence. LITERALLY every person that I know from vanilla that I'm still in contact with wants to play Classic and for there to be no changes. The people I knew from Nost are against changes as well. Obviously this does not represent the entire world, but it sure does suggest to me that the people who ACTUALLY WANTED CLASSIC are probably not the same people pushing for changes.

Well, that's weird, because noone I know from Vanilla want "no change at all" and actually, most agree, Classic will benefit from some changes.

But of course, it depends on magnitude of changes, Noone wants replace old talent trees with new system, or rework gathering system. But balance changes across talent trees? Why not? Do we really need arcane mages or survival hunters to suck to enjoy Vanilla? What about quest pacing? It is considered to be core vanilla experience to run out of quest and just farm monster for several levels?

[Ferocity]

Do we really need arcane mages or survival hunters to suck to enjoy Vanilla? What about quest pacing? It is considered to be core vanilla experience to run out of quest and just farm monster for several levels?

In game with different classes and specs some always will be worse than the other. Unless you homogenize them.
Survival hunter was for fun, some people were funning with it, why not?

Also, there is game, which was named EverQuest, it is basically pre-WoW, it had basically no quests on release. And there are people still enjoy that 1999 experience on time-locked and private servers (one of them got official support).

I'd rather grind monsters than have some stupid Cata quests litter the old world I knew.

[solarfallz]

Well, that's weird, because noone I know from Vanilla want "no change at all" and actually, most agree, Classic will benefit from some changes.

But of course, it depends on magnitude of changes, Noone wants replace old talent trees with new system, or rework gathering system. But balance changes across talent trees? Why not? Do we really need arcane mages or survival hunters to suck to enjoy Vanilla? What about quest pacing? It is considered to be core vanilla experience to run out of quest and just farm monster for several levels?

See, this kind of post is just baffling to me. Almost everything in this post is wrong. Arcane mages and survival hunters suck? Really? Arcane mages were powerhouses in PVP and were THE HIGHEST DPS MAGE SPEC for the entire first two tiers! Survival is the highest player-specific hunter DPS spec at high gear levels due to +15% agi and extra crit! What were you even thinking when you typed this?! And you don't run out of quests, you can literally quest to 60. You might have to hit a few different zones but between plaguelands, silithus, un'goro, winterspring, burning steppes, etc you can quest ALL THE WAY TO 60.

I suppose that is the difference between the people that you know, and the people that I know. I played a lot, I know the game inside and out, and many of the players I played with do as well. You are obviously in the more casual, uninformed crowd, and that is fine, there's nothing wrong with being a casual player, but don't pretend to know enough about the game to think your opinion on what should be changed actually matters when everything you base your opinions on is false.

[Leakage]

What if blizzard just made polls for changes to the game like old runescape does? Change doesn't get passed unless 75% or more vote yes