Traditional raid tier sets will be removed with BfA

[shaunika123]

2 tier piece from last tier 4 tier piece from current tier, 2 legendaries, 2 weapon slot

a: you're not "locked" into weapons, since there are no weapon drops in antorus in the first place, and you're not locked into relics really
b: are you an MM hunter? because not many specs benefit from using past tier sets when you realize you give up over 25 ilvls for it. if that's the case that's an outlier and should probably be fixed, and it's not unheard of blizzard nefing 2 pc bonuses should they became too good.

[corebit]

sets for each class are good, set bonuses are good and this change is very bad.

Sets for each class are good wut? Do you even raid regularly? A lot of times the set bonuses of a new tier are worse than the previous one. Go around the class subforums for a bit and you'll see.

Basically tier set bonuses have become a nightmare to balance. Either you are forced to wear the latest 4-piece tier set, or you wear the previous set. There is no flexibility.

[Whatever Dude]

I fucking hate Titanforging. They need to remove that, but I know the arrogant asses won't until at least the expansion after BfA.

[Niwes]

on the bright side, at least not every single weekly chest reward will be completely unusable this way.

But I think this is not a good change.

unless they do something very brilliant with azerite and different tiers. Because for me one of the biggest perks of setbonuses was that it usually changed how i play my class each tier at least slightly. which helped keep it fresh.

IF the azerite bonuses from each tier will be vastly different, and more and more powerful, then I'm okay with it.

it'll also make gearing for raids on the HC week a lot better since now we wont have to forcefeed a 4pc to one person even with suboptimal pieces just so someone will have it., but can distribute loot a bit more equally.

ironically though, I'm going from the most contested token (vanquisher) to the most contested loot type (leather) so I guess I'M staying fucked on that front.

„...then i am okay with it“. until this question is in front of you:

„is Legendary combinationX + WF/TF + oldraidtrinketY better as new azerithe stuff Z ?“

[durrtygoodz]

A very small percentage of players hate TF. Most Mythic raiders (3% of the playerbase.) and people below that who don't know any better because their YouTube hero told them TF is bad.

Nobody with a fully developed adult brain thinks titanforging is good.

[Roccatex]

Sets for each class are good wut? Do you even raid regularly? A lot of times the set bonuses of a new tier are worse than the previous one. Go around the class subforums for a bit and you'll see.

Basically tier set bonuses have become a nightmare to balance. Either you are forced to wear the latest 4-piece tier set, or you wear the previous set. There is no flexibility.

I bet what Blizzard meant is that you get these set bonus effects from traits in your item. So you can basically make your set on a crit/haste item instead of a crappy mastery/versa item for example.

[shaunika123]

„...then i am okay with it“. until this question is in front of you:

„is Legendary combinationX + WF/TF + oldraidtrinketY better as new azerithe stuff Z ?“

azerite gear cant WF/TF

there wont be legendaries

and trinkets have nothing to do with azerite

or am i missing your point?

[Deleted]

True, you have 3 pieces that cannot TF and so raid will drop the best version, but that's 3 out of 15-16 slots. Also I'm sure there will be a similar system to weekly chests, that just drops a random piece of gear of equivalent level to mythic raiding, requiring minimal effort, at least beyond the first couple of weeks of a tier (do we even call each new raid a tier now?..). So you will probably be able to get best possible gear without ever stepping in to a raid zone, at least if RNG is on your side. Which is something I hoped will pass with legion...

And now tier bonuses are a part of a AP grind? That's even worse, I absolutely hate AP farm, to the point that I'm still at artifact lvl 67, because I can't force myself to grind m+ or world quests.

I feel like I'm opening fucking loot crate with the TF system, where it's mostly trash I don't need or already have, hoping to get that one item I need. The only thing that's missing is a shop item that allows you to reroll for a TF proc, and a legacy of loot crates will fully take root.

[Taeldorian]

haha, your ghost wolf makes you move 5% faster vs. you take 5% less damage with astral shift on. both are so exciting, totally tier set level excitement, I'm too excited to sleep for a week after seeing that.

Good thing there’s a fuckton more than just that one trait. Super nice straw man you got there. Picking one trait out of how many?

Oh yeah, judgement generates 1 extra holy power. How thrilling. The tier set bonuses can be just as bad if not worse. Azerite gear has plenty of options, some are interesting and some aren’t. Better than tier gear though.

[Bazull]

Really like this change. I hate being pigeon holed into teir gear.

This expansion is sounding better and better

[Aaronioslo]

Good thing there’s a fuckton more than just that one trait. Super nice straw man you got there. Picking one trait out of how many?

Oh yeah, judgement generates 1 extra holy power. How thrilling. The tier set bonuses can be just as bad if not worse. Azerite gear has plenty of options, some are interesting and some aren’t. Better than tier gear though.

they have already said it will be utility based. for someone questioning everyones knowledge about everything, you couldn't have missed it could you?

[Roccatex]

Good thing there’s a fuckton more than just that one trait. Super nice straw man you got there. Picking one trait out of how many?

Oh yeah, judgement generates 1 extra holy power. How thrilling. The tier set bonuses can be just as bad if not worse. Azerite gear has plenty of options, some are interesting and some aren’t. Better than tier gear though.

And we don't even know if the rarity effects these. Maybe this was just a green or blue item as example.

[shaunika123]

True, you have 3 pieces that cannot TF and so raid will drop the best version, but that's 3 out of 15-16 slots. Also I'm sure there will be a similar system to weekly chests, that just drops a random piece of gear of equivalent level to mythic raiding, requiring minimal effort, at least beyond the first couple of weeks of a tier (do we even call each new raid a tier now?..). So you will probably be able to get best possible gear without ever stepping in to a raid zone, at least if RNG is on your side. Which is something I hoped will pass with legion...

And now tier bonuses are a part of a AP grind? That's even worse, I absolutely hate AP farm, to the point that I'm still at artifact lvl 67, because I can't force myself to grind m+ or world quests.

I feel like I'm opening fucking loot crate with the TF system, where it's mostly trash I don't need or already have, hoping to get that one item I need. The only thing that's missing is a shop item that allows you to reroll for a TF proc, and a legacy of loot crates will fully take root.

being able to get good gear from different places isnt necessarily a bad thing.

i don't mind mythic+ competition not being dependant on getting your tier sets for example.
and with sets and legendaries not locking you into slots anymore, that weekly chest has almost doubled in potential upgrades.

as for the "get the best gear without ever stepping into a raid zone"

even if every single weekly reward is an upgrade to a different slot it'd take you 17 weeks to gear to full, that's like an entire raid tier.

and for mythic+ to be actually rewarding gearwise outside the end of week chest, you'd have to consistently do really high ones, which arent really less challenging than raids aside from the fact that you only need 1/4th of the people to coordinate.

[Niwes]

I fucking hate Titanforging. They need to remove that, but I know the arrogant asses won't until at least the expansion after BfA.

they will not remove TF/WF.

why ?

1)
they have data, how many ppl just play for „getting some shit“ without any deeper dedication to gearing, and how much they get motivated by „baam WF“.

2)
they have data, how many of them could be kept longer in game with that WF/TF carrot on a stick mechanic.

3)
WF/TF and RNG based systems are way more cheaper in development, cause of autogenerating gear, unbased balance levels, etc. Think about that: How much have you think about how have gear influence on that specific spec with specific talent set and specific drops, when a complete other autogenerated item just could drop WF ?

so, all blizz do, is an average overall math mechanic concept, that more or less works everywhere. way cheaper than accurate custom tailored gear lists per class etc. like in the past. only effect: dmg gaps become way more huge, influenced by a thousand factors. but blizz just dont care, because tadaaa its cheaper.

as long as not half the playerbase switch to classic servers because of diablofication, WF/TF will go nowhere.

[corebit]

True, you have 3 pieces that cannot TF and so raid will drop the best version, but that's 3 out of 15-16 slots. Also I'm sure there will be a similar system to weekly chests, that just drops a random piece of gear of equivalent level to mythic raiding, requiring minimal effort, at least beyond the first couple of weeks of a tier (do we even call each new raid a tier now?..). So you will probably be able to get best possible gear without ever stepping in to a raid zone, at least if RNG is on your side. Which is something I hoped will pass with legion...

Is the three-piece Azerite armor already set in stone? The pictures they showed at Blizzcon and the playable demo may only be a draft showcase. If they haven't confirmed it yet, then I don't think Azerite will be just those three slots but all your armor core slots except weapons, jewelry, and trinkets.

[Roccatex]

they have already said it will be utility based. for someone questioning everyones knowledge about everything, you couldn't have missed it could you?

I guess you didn't even read this interview.

[Redroniksre]

But what is the visual effect that will make people say "wow, i want that, i want to raid" when they see you?
Will it be azerite gear? Azerite gear is the new "Tier-sets"?

I think we are all forgeting about the visual aspect of the game and the "incentives for noobs to be in awe"

Nobody does that anymore, nobody has since TBC. That is never coming back because nobody cares that much about WoW to look up to people, and it was even rare in vanilla. I did it a total of once, i didn't think anything of the player either, just wanted the look.

[Taeldorian]

And we don't even know if the rarity effects these. Maybe this was just a green or blue item as example.

That’s also true.

One thing we do know is that ILVL affects the traits in azerite gear. The better the ilvl, the better the traits.

- - - Updated - - -

they have already said it will be utility based. for someone questioning everyones knowledge about everything, you couldn't have missed it could you?

Uh no. All of the traits will not be utility based. Heart of azeroth will be, not the azerite armor.

[Zelk]

Sets for each class are good wut? Do you even raid regularly? A lot of times the set bonuses of a new tier are worse than the previous one. Go around the class subforums for a bit and you'll see.

Basically tier set bonuses have become a nightmare to balance. Either you are forced to wear the latest 4-piece tier set, or you wear the previous set. There is no flexibility.

set bonuses should be better then. Why remove them instead?

[Thorim]

Good thing mythic+ isn’t the only option.

Yes, right now you can get higher ilvl gear from M+ than from raiding due to TF. That won’t be happening in BFA since azerite gear can’t titanforge, so in order to get those BiS pieces you’ll have to raid.

What do you mean? You're saying that mythic+ will only be dropping azerite gear? You're saying that there will not be a non-azerite helm in any of the mythic+ dungeons which can TF up to insane levels and thus be BIS?

Either the 'talents' in the azerite gear will be so lackluster that you're willing to drop them for a titanforged raid/mythic+ drop, or they will be like tier bonuses are right now and the talents will make any azerite piece better than the TF drop you just got - *exactly* like set bonuses/TF is now.

Titanforging is the problem, I don't know why they didn't just cap it at 5/10 levels like everyone said they should.